Hightower Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, just trying to plan a bit. What are the alternatives (preferably free) to RM products used/features. Examples: RM Tutor --> iTalc EasyLink --> Addon for Moodle that covers this Print Management --> ???? Can't think of others at the moment but if you have moved CC3/4 --> Vanilla what software did you replace some of the RM stuff with?
Marci Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Print Management --> Papercut RM SmartCache --> Smoothwall / Censornet RMVP4 --> Sophos Software Deployment --> Standard Microsoft way of deploying software RM Tutor --> iTalc / NetSupport (NetSupport IS RMTutor) That's about it really. Everything else is just a wrapper to simplify doing account management directly within AD.
Hightower Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Posted February 1, 2011 That's about it really. Everything else is just a wrapper to simplify doing account management directly within AD. Yep - that's what I keep telling the boss. It's all a wrapper to make it prettier. Printing was the one I was stuck on.
Marci Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 I think the main benefit of RM is, if it all goes wrong there is a number you can call who is contracted to assist til it's sorted... whereas with vanilla it's down to your knowledge and whatever you can find using your own resources (especially if your employer won't get you the necessary qualifications to do the job). We were planning to shift from CC3 to Vanilla this summer, but since that decision was made we've lost 1x fulltime tech and our Network Manager, leaving myself and a part-time tech. I therefore suggested the decision to abandon the vanilla plan in favour of shifting to CC4, purely on the basis that there aren't enough of us in the department to support a vanilla network - if we hit an issue, there aren't enough of us to allow (for instance) myself to dedicate a day or more trying to find the solution... the day-to-day demands on the department keep us working flatout as it is... If we still had the other fulltime tech and the Network Manager, then yes, there were enough of us then to allow any one of us to be out of action for several days working on a single issue. So, a balance of manpower vs knowledge vs budget was the decider for us... it's rarely as clearcut as RM vs Vanilla - you have to consider all the factors.
Hightower Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Posted February 1, 2011 Yep, completely understand that argument. We've got certain SLA's with the LEA though which we plan to keep in place in case the brown stuff hits, so there's always a level of escalation which is not a bad thing to have.
Marci Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Our LEA will only cover the admin network, they won't touch the curriculum side of things unless we hand over vast amounts of money (which exceed the cost of us employing another fulltime technician). If only everywhere were equal...!
TechMonkey Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Maybe we should start up a new vanilla network support group. Heading that way too, probably next summer, and the thought of not having that nice umber to call up and shout at someone is a bit of a worry. Gonna be funt hough I think. Something meaty to get my teeth into.
sippo Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Don't forget if you use a third party company, you will be paying a premium for support. We moved to a vanilla network 4 years ago after I recommended it and now save the school c£10k PA just on support. Oh and moving across really isn't that bad. Yes its change, but there's always Edugeek!
Hightower Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Posted February 1, 2011 I'm not worried about moving, just need to know what people use in place of RM functions.
MK-2 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 I think the main benefit of RM is, if it all goes wrong there is a number you can call who is contracted to assist til it's sorted thats not always the case. ours is a long drawn out story, but lets just say not the case in the slightest (pm if you want further details) Hightower: Pretty much what Marci said, I'd also throw Impero into the hat for classroom/network control, it was tested here alongside Rm Tutor and easily came out the winner by a mile. For software deployment MSI via AD, although ive written a little tool that will now wrap up an msi, send it to the machine, remotely install, etc. So for installing to one machine or a few random machines is easier.
Edu-IT Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Don't forget if you use a third party company, you will be paying a premium for support. But for schools they usually see this as the cheaper option as they can get cheaper staff. Also take into account if the brown stuff hits the fan, will school pay for overtime etc to resolve issues. Personally I think it's swings and roundabouts. If you have a budget which will allow you to run Vanilla with enough staff to manage it, then great go for it, but if you don't then systems such as RM, Viglen etc aren't to be written off as being 'not proper networks' because as pointed out they still take a great deal of time to manage!
sippo Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 But for schools they usually see this as the cheaper option as they can get cheaper staff. Also take into account if the brown stuff hits the fan, will school pay for overtime etc to resolve issues. Personally I think it's swings and roundabouts. If you have a budget which will allow you to run Vanilla with enough staff to manage it, then great go for it, but if you don't then systems such as RM, Viglen etc aren't to be written off as being 'not proper networks' because as pointed out they still take a great deal of time to manage! In my case it's different then. We've gone from having three people running a viglen network of 250 PC's to a Vanilla network with me and 500 PC's!!
dhicks Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Print Management PyKota, although I only used PyKota's page-counting library as a basis for my own system.
kesomir Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 Also ABTutor for classroom/network control
Timmay2606 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 thats not always the case. ours is a long drawn out story, but lets just say not the case in the slightest (pm if you want further details) Hightower: Pretty much what Marci said, I'd also throw Impero into the hat for classroom/network control, it was tested here alongside Rm Tutor and easily came out the winner by a mile. For software deployment MSI via AD, although ive written a little tool that will now wrap up an msi, send it to the machine, remotely install, etc. So for installing to one machine or a few random machines is easier. Depends which version of Impero you're running. Version 3 includes an MSI deployment tool allowing you to distribute apps to PCs en masse. And it includes Print Management through a quota/credit system. So probably worth looking at.
Hightower Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Posted February 7, 2011 About Impero - I had a ballpark of about £3k for the first year, and about £1k per year after. Does this sound about right for a school with around 300 machines?
clarky2k3 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Print Management --> Papercut (best software we have ever bought!) RM SmartCache --> Smoothwall Software Deployment --> GPO or WPKG RM Tutor --> ABTutor (Just pay per management machine - unlimited clients)
Timmay2606 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 About Impero - I had a ballpark of about £3k for the first year, and about £1k per year after. Does this sound about right for a school with around 300 machines? Sounds in the right region. I know it works on an RM network so I would suggest downloading it and having a play. One of the Impero salesguys will probably follow it up, so be sure to mention Edugeek!
edutech4schools Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 RM causes you way more issues than Vanilla. I logged loads of calls with RM when we had it but since moving have had very few issues and can find all the info I need on the net (edugeek). RM also restricts how you work and once free you won't look back.
morganw Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 I'd recommend LanSchool as a replacement for RM tutor. It uses the idea of 'channels' that can be configured through group policy or scripting so you'll never get people remote controlling the wrong room. The user interface also seemed the easiest to use from those I tested. I think the pricing structure was similar to AB TutorControl, free for clients, pay for each teacher licence.
Hightower Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Posted February 7, 2011 RM causes you way more issues than Vanilla. I logged loads of calls with RM when we had it but since moving have had very few issues and can find all the info I need on the net (edugeek). RM also restricts how you work and once free you won't look back. There's plenty of RM bashing threads. This is not one of them.
Theldron Posted April 6, 2011 Report Posted April 6, 2011 I know a lot of people don't like RM, but it has been a god send to me. I am the only technician at our school and the Network Manager is a full-time teacher. So to be able to just go to RM if there is problem is great. Don't get me wrong if I had half the chance I would like to go Vanilla but being on my own its not feasible, not because I don't like RM but the fact that I'd get more freedom in how I wanted to run our network. I have ditched most of the RM Software mind: RMVP - Sophos RM Printer Credits - Pcounter RM Audit - Spiceworks I am currently looking into dropping RM Easymail and going with Live@edu. Why pay for something when you can get it for free. PS - Also when there is a problem, being able to tell teachers that I have had to pass it to RM saves so much hassle.
MK-2 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Posted April 6, 2011 I know a lot of people don't like RM, but it has been a god send to me. I am the only technician at our school and the Network Manager is a full-time teacher. So to be able to just go to RM if there is problem is great. Don't get me wrong if I had half the chance I would like to go Vanilla but being on my own its not feasible, not because I don't like RM but the fact that I'd get more freedom in how I wanted to run our network. I have ditched most of the RM Software mind: RMVP - Sophos RM Printer Credits - Pcounter RM Audit - Spiceworks I am currently looking into dropping RM Easymail and going with Live@edu. Why pay for something when you can get it for free. PS - Also when there is a problem, being able to tell teachers that I have had to pass it to RM saves so much hassle. in certain circumstances, such as yours, i can understand why the school chooses RM. It (allegedly) makes your life easier with certain tasks. The problem comes when you are still the only person on site, and there is a problem. Blaming RM will only get you so far before staff get annoyed with there being a problem and if it is an RM specific problem, chances are you don't know how to fix it so have to just sit patiently twiddling thumbs (or sending event logs etc) until RM come up with a resolution. In the mean time it means weathering the storm of staff wanting to know when it will be fixed.
Flakes Posted April 6, 2011 Report Posted April 6, 2011 RM Tutor is a rebranded Netsupport a program which i would recommend certaintly the newer v10.
edutech4schools Posted April 6, 2011 Report Posted April 6, 2011 Don't get me wrong if I had half the chance I would like to go Vanilla but being on my own its not feasible I am on my own and look after 4 schools (I used to look after 13 but had new born baby to think about a few years back so cut down) and manage just fine. Having vanilla keeps things nice and simple. There's plenty of RM bashing threads. This is not one of them. Not trying to bash RM but if all my schools had RM servers I would not be able to support all the schools that I do currently. The reason is - over a 1 year period of using a RM server in a school I had accumulated a vast amount of logged calls to RM. Even very basic faults that would be simple to fix for a vanilla setup become a problem that needed to get logged with RM. You cant do standard fix's as this then causes issues with the RM layer so you end up logging painfully silly issues. I like RM as a company but my own experiences with the server software products have left a sting.
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