mattx Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 This months Digital Photo magazine has a review of a few Compacts - Compacts under £100 Digital Photo - February 2011 | Photo Answers I've only quickly speed read it but the Canon on there comes out quite well. [ I have the mag at home ] but can scan it in if you want it - let me know and I'll do it this evening. 1
LosOjos Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 This months Digital Photo magazine has a review of a few Compacts - Compacts under £100 Digital Photo - February 2011 | Photo Answers I've only quickly speed read it but the Canon on there comes out quite well. [ I have the mag at home ] but can scan it in if you want it - let me know and I'll do it this evening. Cheers I'll check it out (don't worry about scanning I'll pick up a copy from the shop, save your time for something less boring lol)
LosOjos Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Complete noob question, but what is the advantage of RAW? What can I do with RAW that I can't do with other formats?
localzuk Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Complete noob question, but what is the advantage of RAW? What can I do with RAW that I can't do with other formats? JPG files are compressed, and therefore discard a massive amount of information. RAW contains the very data that the CCD sees, so that when you get it into an editor, you have every last bit of information to work with, rather than just hoping the JPG conversion got the best bit. 1
mattx Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I have agonised over the RAW vs JPG conundrum. I shoot everything on JPG these days. I compared the two myself, and came to the conclusion that JPG was fine, and RAW was an unnecessary pain the cheeks. I even tested fine JPG vs medium JPG and couldn't tell the difference in real-world examples (using my Canon 20D). Perhaps, in a studio with a top lens shooting a fixed chart you might see a difference, but I couldn't. RAW vs JPG You, however, may come to a different conclusion. Try it for yourself. Have you used Adobe's Camera Raw ?
JPS Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I'm a Canon man too, I've owned numerous D series SLRs and prior to that plenty of 35mm EOS models, in fact I still use my EOS 50 (35mm) as an accompaniment to my DSLRs. My advice would be buy Canon, and IMO, as a starter to the hobby, don't get obsessed with the spec of the body (if you're buying SLR) spend the bulk of your money on the lense(s), they are what will provide you with a decent image. Also worth remembering that IIRC Jessops price-match, so check the web first before just paying their advertised price. 1
sted Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Complete noob question, but what is the advantage of RAW? What can I do with RAW that I can't do with other formats? tbh unless you want to do a lot of heavy editing they just take up more space on the card/ your hdd. Ive given up with raw (and last time i checked canon diddnt do a raw codec for x64 windows either not the end of the world but annoying) again another canon man here (eos 400d) does what i want just be aware you will probably end up spending more on lenses once you start its easy to get carried away and start thinking ooh that could be useful so far ive managed to get away with 3 lenses but one of them has been 95% replaced by one of the others (replaced the 80-300 with a 55-250 as the 55-250 has image stabilisation) 1
LosOjos Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 OK I've (kind of) narrowed down my choices on camera bit, only swayed slightly by the possibility of going for a 4/3 system rather than full dSLR, however one thing that is confusing me a bit is the huge range of lenses available. What would you say would be a good lens size for a beginner? Baring in mind my financial situation means it could well be 12 months before I can afford another lens, what am I going to get best use out of? My main focus will be on photographing friends and family, and some scenery shots to practise with
localzuk Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Probably a 50mm is your best starter lens. Zoom lenses are all fine and good, but they kind of make you into a lazy photographer, plus they aren't as good quality usually unless you spend megabucks. The f1.8 50mm someone mentioned earlier is what I'd go for. If you're going to be looking at portrait shots, I'd go on to recommend a 100mm lens for that, as it generally turns out the best shots. And then for landscape stuff, something down around 28mm would be where i'd look. 1
webman Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I agree with localzuk on the 50mm lens idea - I have the Nikon 50mm f/1.8D and it's fantastic. I only switch to the kit zoom lens (18-105) when doing sport stuff usually. 1
sted Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Probably a 50mm is your best starter lens. Zoom lenses are all fine and good, but they kind of make you into a lazy photographer, plus they aren't as good quality usually unless you spend megabucks. The f1.8 50mm someone mentioned earlier is what I'd go for. If you're going to be looking at portrait shots, I'd go on to recommend a 100mm lens for that, as it generally turns out the best shots. And then for landscape stuff, something down around 28mm would be where i'd look. tbh i know everyone says the kit 18-55mm lenses arnt the best but they also arnt bad and as an only lens you can do a lot worse. I have a canon 50mm f1.8 prime (about £100 iirc) and i tend to find it a pain i often find i need to back up far enough for it to be an issue though in low light it is a good lens 1
SteveBentley Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I'd have to agree with @john. Sony Alphas are very nice & reliable. Got one at home and a slightly better one at work. This. I love my Sony. As to RAW vs JPEG, I like to shoot in RAW+JPEG. A 4Gb or 8Gb card costs peanuts these days, so having the flexibility of being able to go back and alter the levels, white balance at RAW stage (so before the JPEG compression artefacts) is a good thing to have. 1
SteveBentley Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 tbh i know everyone says the kit 18-55mm lenses arnt the best but they also arnt bad and as an only lens you can do a lot worse. I have a canon 50mm f1.8 prime (about £100 iirc) and i tend to find it a pain i often find i need to back up far enough for it to be an issue though in low light it is a good lens Interesting viewpoint. I increasingly use my 50mm f1.8 prime as a walkabout lens, I only really use my kit lens when I want a wider angle, or if it's something I can't physically get close enough to I'll break out my 100-300mm zoom. I find the depth of field and sharpness, plus the low light abilities of the prime far outweigh having to move to the right position to frame the shot how I want it. 1
localzuk Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 As you can probably guess by now, photography is as full of arguments as computing. Mac vs PC, emacs vs vi, and now Canon vs Nikon, 50mm vs kit zoom lens, etc...
mattx Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 As you can probably guess by now, photography is as full of arguments as computing. Mac vs PC, emacs vs vi, and now Canon vs Nikon, 50mm vs kit zoom lens, etc... Very true - but I would never buy any other make of camera. It would always be for me either Nikon or Canon - and as for the RAW v JPG debate - most cameras will take both together - which is what I use. The jpgs for quick viewing and then the RAW format for editing. And don't knock RAW until you have tried it. I promise you once you get the basics mastered in Adobe's Camera Raw - you will never go back.
turnew Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I wouldn't disagree with the majority of comments on this thread. Your decision will be based on how much of a "hobbyist" you are or how seriously you want to be with your photography. The cash you want to spend is also a consideration. The people on here who recommend Canon, Nikon or Sony are spot on and you won't see many serious/professional photographers with anything else. With a DSLR though you do have the lens consideration and extra cost. It also depends what type of photography you want to do, scenic, portrait, motorsport, wildlife etc. If you can afford one of the above plus the lenses then you won't go wrong. If the money is an issue and you want to grow into it then don't discount the Fuji Finepix HS10. It is a bridge camera but possibly the closest thing you'll get to a DSLR without the need for lenses. 30x zoom (24mm to 720mm), full 1080p video, 10 megapixel, RAW/JPG images. Approx £260. Limitations are that although it can take 10 frames per second it will only shoot 7 shoots in burst mode. Not as fast as a DSLR. 1
sted Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Interesting viewpoint. I increasingly use my 50mm f1.8 prime as a walkabout lens, I only really use my kit lens when I want a wider angle, or if it's something I can't physically get close enough to I'll break out my 100-300mm zoom. I find the depth of field and sharpness, plus the low light abilities of the prime far outweigh having to move to the right position to frame the shot how I want it. i just tend to find i end up either against a wall or other obstacle (or falling over in some cases lol) trying to get things framed @ 50mm though as everyone has said your mileage may vary but i either tend to end up working at distance (so using my 250mm or close up using the 18mm end of the kit lens. Granted the 50mm prime is almost certainly a better lens optically etc as it only has to operate in 1 window not a range so its not compramised in the canon vs nikon vs sony try them i plumped for a canon for the simple reason i preferred the feel of it specs are near as identical between similar models
maniac Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 If money is tight, take a look at the second hand market. I recently bagged a Canon 450d with a load of accessories, decent flash gun, couple of len's and a good tripod for £400 the lot which is a bargain! Camera might be 2-3 years old but it still takes good photos. Obviously there are risks involved with a second hand camera, but there's some good deals to be had if you hunt around.
Busybub Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Only problem is I'm really skint! So I'd be looking to get something on finance with at least one lens with it (my Grandad lives about 200 miles away so it'll be a case of trying out the lenses for a weekend here and there when I see him) Finance may end up costing you a lot more depending on what sort of deal you can find. A casual look has warehouseexpress at 29% apr, or interest free for the first 6 months only. If you're that hard up, A Canon 10D can be had for as little as 140, a kit lens for 50 (mpbphotographic.co.uk). That will tide you over for a while. You can then add a 50/1.8 for 30 quid, though i would personally look for a 35/f2 1
tech_guy Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I shoot everything on my Nikon in RAW - the fun you can have in Photoshop afterwards is amazing.
mattx Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) I shoot everything on my Nikon in RAW - the fun you can have in Photoshop afterwards is amazing. Well said that man - I don't think people actually really understand the power of Camera Raw. Even if you cock up your WB Camera Raw can easily make the change and make pix look amazing: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5398314141_644b5e0041_m.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5310057561_d808b9f75c_m.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5280344625_755960e081_m.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5312015721_b9fdee042a_m.jpg All of these were edited in Camera Raw - thus not making any changes to the original shot as that is now how camera raw works. The only thing extra bit of editing I needed photoshop for was adding the border and drop shadow. Edited January 31, 2011 by mattx
DAZZD88 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 @Busybub I didn't realize there was a site around like MPB Photographic. Been thinking about photography as a hobby and that website seems to make it affordable enough even for me. Have you purchased from them before?
localzuk Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Once you're working with a digital image in software, you're working with an uncompressed bitmap. It only becomes a file format when you save and load it. True, but it will have any compression defects built into it, and then when you save it again, it will gain new defects - like photocopying a photocopy.
sted Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 True, but it will have any compression defects built into it, and then when you save it again, it will gain new defects - like photocopying a photocopy. but with cameras not at silly megapixel levels does it matter that much unless you really need to print it onto something the size of a building?
LosOjos Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Lots of great advice here, thanks everyone We have some Sony NEX-5's in school I'm going to have a look at (although without even using one I don't like the look of them to be honest), got somebody bringing in their Lumix G2 for me to have a play with too. At the minute I'm thinking a compact dSLR might be a good starting point (don't know if that's the proper name for them, I'm referring to the 4/3 cameras such as Lumix G2) because they seem to have features to help a novice so I can pick it up and start using it straight away while I ease myself in to ISO, WB, shutter speed etc. I have to say though having looked at a ton of cameras, Sony seem the most affordable dSLR's, but Canon look like better cameras (and I literally do just mean they look it, I've not used any to compare!) Final question for you all (for now!); what is your favourite photography publication? Online or print, I'm feeling a bit of reading up should help me out here too
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