victory2009 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 One important question would be how long do you intend to support the current facility as i am sure it is going to take time to migrate - training needed etc...
michael2k6 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks for your replies, and thanks Paul for posting out in the community. I'm sure Paul will be keeping track of this thread. Care to add anything John? A Serco related thread without your input is rare, were you not invited? lol Mic, techie @ Serco
pcstru Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 What about the migration strategy ? Assessment templates, events, reports etc. For those of us that have puts years of work into getting the system working as we want it too, to fit our environment, the possibility of having to throw all that work away and start again is pretty appalling. Appalling yes, but also an opportunity to look at alternatives. If we are essentially being forced to go through the churn of introducing a new product then there is no particular reason to be tied in to Serco.
NickBuckel Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Appalling yes, but also an opportunity to look at alternatives. If we are essentially being forced to go through the churn of introducing a new product then there is no particular reason to be tied in to Serco. Its typical isn't it, you wait for ages for a Serco reply then 3 come at once Obviously we want to make it as easy as possible to move to Progresso; and while I'm not aware of the specifics, I do know that a significant amount of work has gone in to managing the transition of data across to Progresso to maintain as much of your current setup as possible. That said, as you point out it is also a good opportunity to look at how MIS is used in your school and we are confident that Progresso will be just as good, if not an even better fit for your school than Facility currently is. To answer a couple of the other questions raised: Progresso is being built around an SQL database. An API is also being developed. Progresso will be entirely web-based with the exception of the scheduling package which will continue to operate in a similar way to facility does now: with the timetabler taking an extract of data offline to work on and then integrating it back in to the main database. Sorry I can't really be more specific than that, hopefully Paul will be able to respond with more detail soon. Nick
pcstru Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Its typical isn't it, you wait for ages for a Serco reply then 3 come at once Obviously we want to make it as easy as possible to move to Progresso; and while I'm not aware of the specifics, I do know that a significant amount of work has gone in to managing the transition of data across to Progresso to maintain as much of your current setup as possible. That said, as you point out it is also a good opportunity to look at how MIS is used in your school and we are confident that Progresso will be just as good, if not an even better fit for your school than Facility currently is. It's not just the data, there are training issues as well as (for us) significant issues in how we have integrated cmis with external systems, both our own and those supplied by 3rd parties. I'm sure you will try and make the transition as easy as possible but I fear it will still be very costly and painful -certainly compared to just ticking along. Progresso will be entirely web-based with the exception of the scheduling package which will continue to operate in a similar way to facility does now: with the timetabler taking an extract of data offline to work on and then integrating it back in to the main database. When you say 'similar way', is it still a new product on a new database or does it somehow integrate with the old db and the new one?
PaulHarrington Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I obviously forgot my audience when I made my last post, the database is SQL 2008 R2 and it is being built on .NET technologies. In terms of transition, we have made plans, budgeted and staffed a dedicated development team to continue to support Facility for at least the next five years. The transition tools provide 3 functions during adoption of Progresso. Data Cleanse Data Structures Data Migration Data cleansing will ensure that the information transferred is as accurate as possible and will also highlight any discrepancies within the data. This will provide error reports to users to enable the data to be corrected and can be run multiple times. Data structures include assessments, user defined fields, behaviour structures etc. and will set up these within Progresso to enable the data to be transferred. These will be editable to enable changes to take advantage of the new features and functionality. There is also the opportunity to select which templates you wish to transition, allowing further cleansing of data. Data migration is the final step that will populate Progresso with all relevant staff and learner information. This can be run multiple times for different areas of the system allowing for schools to update information such as attendance without impacting on information that may have been updated within Progresso. The Adoption program that we have in place for existing schools also includes on site training and project management and is provided free of charge. In terms of reporting, we are moving to a completely new reporting engine and this does mean that it is not possible to migrate all reports automatically. Reporting will be fundamentally different in that it will be web based and available to all stakeholders and also interactive rather than static, this will change the concept of reporting and allow richer reporting functionality We recognise that one of the key areas of reporting that concerns our schools are the assessment reports to parents. We have built into the assessment functionality some really exciting and innovative ways of addressing this, without the need for developing reports and look forward to talking to customers about this. The API will be based on standard technology and will be freely available to schools on a non-commercial license. Questions about access to Progresso during an internet outage were also raised and I didn't mention that we are designing a mobile version of Progresso for all major mobile browsers. Finally, I didn't intend the question about internet connectivity to be a side swipe, I would love to hear from this community about how they ensure uninterrupted connection to the internet if their RBC or LA connection is inadequate. As always, feel free to ask more questions. 3
Banjo Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 How do you plan to move/migrate pupils addresses into Progresso as that will use the BS7666 standard, where as Facility uses Address line? If a tool has been written for this, would it not make sense to make this available to Facility schools now so it can be run on the the existing Facility databases to move them to the BS7666 standard before migrating?
curseyoumoriarty Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 The "Data Cleanse" would be rather handy in Facility itself given that long term users of it find that the Facility's data has a tendency exhibit entropy. To what extent are you expecting migrations to include historical data (previous addresses, changing relationships with contacts etc.) which is key to reflecting the full picture we have of a student? On a similar tack, Facility is only really able to show you the historical picture at year end for previous years since the audit trail does not record data changes, only some indication of who might have changed it. Over the years, we have had several reasons to investigate the past picture at a specific date, but have been unable determine anything definitive because of the existing limitations of the audit/logging processes. I'm more used to MIS systems that fully track field level data changes with who, what, when etc. Can we look forward to some progress in this area under Progresso?
OverWorked Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 Our Admin Manager and I have just returned from the first Progresso presentation and were very impressed. We plan to move over to Progresso as early as possible in 2012. That's all I'm going to say at this stage. You'll have to get the rest from Serco. 1
john Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Our Admin Manager and I have just returned from the first Progresso presentation and were very impressed. We plan to move over to Progresso as early as possible in 2012. That's all I'm going to say at this stage. You'll have to get the rest from Serco. Cheers for this info, my Data Manager and my good-self are off to the Manchester event tomorrow morning (how I love Trafford Park Rush Hour traffic Jams..........) so looking forward to it now
michael2k6 Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, have a good time tomorrow John, i hope the traffic isn't too painful. Mic @ Serco
john Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, have a good time tomorrow John, i hope the traffic isn't too painful. Mic @ Serco Put it this way I'm leaving 2hrs for the trip which would get us there in time for registration, however I suspect were more likely to be running in to the event grabbing coffee and a seat at the back than enjoying breakfast with Davinder and staff.
john Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) Ok, I was at the event at Old Trafford today, and would like to say how much I am looking forward to Progresso! I admit I was sceptical about Progresso, I've used Facility and Eportal now for 7 years (the actual product is 15 years old itself if you go back to the days of CCM software....) however talking to Paul Harrington and others and watching the presentation and seeing the demonstrations of it, myself and my Data Manager came away both very confident of the product and clear that we want to move to it sooner rather than later. They really have been listening to end users and taking our feedback on-board (all those things we've complained that Facility / ePortal don't do, this does!) The new reporting engine will make things a lot easier and the assessments are significantly quicker and simpler to use and sort out. A lot more automated and designed to support us in our ever increasingly busy schools. I highly recommend that existing Serco Facility Customers talk to account managers and get themselves to the Progresso Update events for existing customers if you haven't booked on them, they are free half day sessions and it really was good and you meet the people behind the product and talk to them face to face. Paul is an excellent person to talk to and is clearly very passionate that the product will succeed and will build upon Facility and ePortal's past successes and learn from the mistakes they have made with them. Edited January 26, 2011 by john spelling errors, whoops!
Gregor Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hi, We have a Moodle VLE installation and use Guy Thomas' excellent Facility to Moodle block to import students and classes to courses. Does anyone know how we are going to integrate with progresso? Greg
Tricky_Dicky Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hi, We have a Moodle VLE installation and use Guy Thomas' excellent Facility to Moodle block to import students and classes to courses. Does anyone know how we are going to integrate with progresso? Greg Have you asked Guy Thomas? Chances are they have already started working on it, I have spoken to a few of the small suppliers of programs like this who have all said they are working on it.
Gregor Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Unfortunately Guy is no longer maintaining it, but I have posted a request for update on the Moodle site and am hoping for a response. Just thought I'd try edugeek as an alternative line of enquiry in teh meantime. As I say, if ePortal/Progresso do effectively disable our ability to import students it is an issue :-( (Moodle has to be the biggest VLE in the world with 50,000 sites, 3,000 in the UK including the Open University.)
john Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Hi, We have a Moodle VLE installation and use Guy Thomas' excellent Facility to Moodle block to import students and classes to courses. Does anyone know how we are going to integrate with progresso? Greg From what was said at the Progresso event last week, they were directly asked about Moodle and it will integrate with Moodle without issues, so I would take that as Serco have a Moodle Integration tool themselves (that or they didn't understand the question quite right). Paul was the man who answered the question so hopefully he or one of the other Serco staff on here will confirm the exact way Progresso will integrate with Moodle users.
david_mooris Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Having been to one of the events, I am well impressed that they have re-engineered their MIS, and provide up-to-date features like Alerts and Workflow. There will be a bedding in period, but at least it will be available from whereever, rather than just in school. Hopefully the Assessment module will actually work too!. The Analysis looks brilliant (based on SQL Server Analysis Services), but available directly from the Desktop. They say the licensing costs will be the same as Facility, but additional cost if you go with them whilst they are still in hosting only mode. They said they were investing in Facility for the next 5 years, so transition will be possible at a time to suite the school. They clearly need something to reverse the decline in their User base (I know of 2 schools in Manchester who have moved to SIMS this year, and I don't know that many schools). Cheers
themightymrp Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 In addition to what @Gregor mentioned above, we have only recently invested heavily in the Frog VLE. This currently has modules to integrate with CMIS which are still quite new (SIMS links were there very early on). Do we know if Frog will work with Progresso?? We are still in the process of setting up the Server i.e. creating user account / timetable links etc. It would be a mega pain in the a*** if the many hours of work we have put in will soon be useless!
michael2k6 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Hi there, Frog are partners of ours and so will have access to the API as soon as it is available, just as they do now. We're discussing changes with the partners at the moment, but as long as they develop against the new API which i believe Frog have every intention of doing (as will any other partner) it will be fully integrated as usual. Mic @ Serco 2
brudinie Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I (Guy Thomas) will hopefully be creating a Progresso interface to Moodle. I'm just in the process of contacting Serco for some advice.
brudinie Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Its not unfortunate that I'm no longer mainting the Facility to Moodle block for Moodle as I have passed it on to another very capable developer
brudinie Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 i do not like the idea its hosted in the cloud - concerns regarding data protection etc... also i asked what would happen if our net went down was told to get a backup link ... did anyone see if serco have been working on a mobile solution - would love something like sims have with the ipad syncing the data etc for pe dep I don't like the idea either - mosts schools access there internet via their RBC and you are not going to get 9.9999% uptime guaranteed with your LA or RBC.
brudinie Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 It's a replacement to Facility. As far as I know Facility will still be available for a while but will eventually be phased out to be replaced with Progresso. probably a good thing as there are some fundamental issues with the db - e.g related data stored in single fields in same table - probably an optimization based on the fact Facilty can run on an access db!
EdWhittaker Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) You won't get 9.99% uptime with a locally hosted solution either. Take the time someone inadvertently turned off the aircon to the server room in my old school. All the cpu's fried and we were server-less for a week. How often is the internet down for a week? There are always going to be things like power outages, local flooding when pipes burst etc etc. Really, in this day and age, cloud should be the most reliable solution. The fact that it's not is more to do with the terribly poor quality service often provided by LA's to schools than anything else. As I've said before, would Amazon, Google, eBay etc be making a business out of it if the web was so unreliable? Like it or not, web hosting and software as a service is the way things are going so we might as well go with the flow; or arm ourselves with pitchforks and sticks like the Luddites and go and smash up the servers? I do appreciate the concerns of people in school about internet reliability; but it's not the internet per se that is unreliable, it's the connection as provided by the LA that often lets them down. Edited March 18, 2011 by EdWhittaker additional comment 2
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