Apple: Love it or hate it.

[localzuk]

Carrying on with the car comparision....

It's not really the hardware itself that annoys me, its the marketing, media and gullibleness (yes its a word, look it up!) of consumers.

If you had two cars on sale, and the Apple car was sat there with adverts playing showing "it changes from first to second gear, up to an amzing fifth gear with the revolutionary iStick" and you think "but all cars have a gearstick, thats nothing new." thats what p***es me off firstly, but then of course the consumers who will go on to only use those terms; "oh i'm fantastic at driving, my apple car lets me iStick into fourth".

 

Like i said, i'm not against the hardware, its the advertising and media hype of it all, and Apples determination that only by using their terminology, their hardware and their methods will you be the coolest person on the earth (and yes i know thats the whole idea of marketing, it still sickens me though), and also the consumers who blindly believe that owning an apple product is the be all and end all of arguments.

 

Came across some of this today. My boss has an iPhone, and I've just received my shiny new HTC Desire HD. The Desire HD is a superior phone in terms of screen size, camera quality, memory, freedom etc... yet my manager says 'its a copy of the iPhone, and therefore can't be as good'.

[LosOjos]

Came across some of this today. My boss has an iPhone, and I've just received my shiny new HTC Desire HD. The Desire HD is a superior phone in terms of screen size, camera quality, memory, freedom etc... yet my manager says 'its a copy of the iPhone, and therefore can't be as good'.

 

By that logic, his shiny new BMW (OK, I don't know what car he really owns but bare with me) is a copy of this:

 

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Images/Sep08/12_Benz_Patent_Motor_Car_Velocipede_Of_1894/452201_760065_3543_2861_66462787F261.jpg

 

and therefore can't be as good.

[MK-2]

Came across some of this today. My boss has an iPhone, and I've just received my shiny new HTC Desire HD. The Desire HD is a superior phone in terms of screen size, camera quality, memory, freedom etc... yet my manager says 'its a copy of the iPhone, and therefore can't be as good'.

 

I'll stick with my trusty HTC HD2. Now able to run Windows Mobile 6/Windows Phone 7 and Android. But I agree, my phone is capable of so much, even running 3 different OS's, yet shops will still show a "how does it compare to an iphone" guide.

 

Because when I buy an Aston Martin, I want the "how does it compare to a Nissan Micra" guide just so i know what i'm missing!

[mthomas08]

Must say some interesting arguements, good thing about Mac is simply a few things. It is much more stable then windows but then thats due to the fact Windows you can do much more and much more compatibility options. It has had to tighten security because 90% of the worlds hackers love to go against Microsoft. That straight away means microsoft spend a lot of time securing their product.

 

Macs do look pretty, we have one here and every person who spots it "Wow, Can I get one". That really does sum up for me as a MAC, its a pretty little box for a professional at Arts.

 

It will also be personal preference, are you liking MAC because of MAC or is it because you hate Microsoft. I am sure if the world was MAC we would be swearing much more, I have been working with both and will always discourage people getting MACs unless you want to use it for simple things. I know some one who got a MAC for her photography art and she is brilliant with it, it works, no problems, no glitches but was it worth her spending a lot of money just for MSN, Internet and photoshop?

 

Our Music DEPT got a class full a year ago and only 1 month ago they actually started working properly, (lack of communication from Music Dept + the guy who set them up was an idiot - mac lover as well).

 

As of now, they are good, they seem to be working well but I will admit it was down to the MAC Idiot who was not Tech Savvy. Maybe that is half the problem, Mac lovers do not seem to be tech know how, they seem to be the typical lover "Its the best no matter what".

 

After using Mac and PC, I would rather use PC but then MACs certainly do have a few good things (not many).

[Duane_Dibbley]

its a pretty little box for a professional at Arts.

 

One of the plus points for macs is supposedly they are better for graphic design etc. Does anyone have a real justification for this?? I have heard plenty of people say it, but no one has ever given me a real reason why they would be. I would be very interested to hear if there is actually a technical (or useability) reason that would make them better for this area.

[localzuk]

One of the plus points for macs is supposedly they are better for graphic design etc. Does anyone have a real justification for this?? I have heard plenty of people say it, but no one has ever given me a real reason why they would be. I would be very interested to hear if there is actually a technical (or useability) reason that would make them better for this area.

 

They used to be, when they used PowerPC chips. They aren't really any more, to be honest. The closest you could say now is that they are better for video editing, due to Final Cut Pro...

[mthomas08]

One of the plus points for macs is supposedly they are better for graphic design etc. Does anyone have a real justification for this?? I have heard plenty of people say it, but no one has ever given me a real reason why they would be. I would be very interested to hear if there is actually a technical (or useability) reason that would make them better for this area.

 

I am being told the graphic design software is second to none. The version that MAC offers is much better then versions available for windows.

 

I too am very scepticle on this but thats what I am being told, I have used MAC for playing around and still could not see the difference from MAC version to PC.

[LosOjos]

One of the plus points for macs is supposedly they are better for graphic design etc. Does anyone have a real justification for this?? I have heard plenty of people say it, but no one has ever given me a real reason why they would be. I would be very interested to hear if there is actually a technical (or useability) reason that would make them better for this area.

 

Because if you sit a starbucks mocha late next to one and put on a grandad cap you automatically get invited to art exhibitions and wine tastings

[mthomas08]

So video editing? and the fact it does what it says on the box.

 

Plug it in, switch it on and away you go (pretty quickly too), still a lot of money for that, I know the OS is more reliable then MAC but as I mentioned before Windows has to be compatible with everything.

[ZeroHour]

I am being told the graphic design software is second to none. The version that MAC offers is much better then versions available for windows.

 

Ironically Adobe ware generally runs faster and better on windows nowadays really. CS4 for example had exclusive 64bit support only on windows due to apples software dev policies with coca (they stitched adobe again...)

[mthomas08]

Glad you all know these details.

[Duane_Dibbley]

I am being told the graphic design software is second to none. The version that MAC offers is much better then versions available for windows.

 

I too am very scepticle on this but thats what I am being told, I have used MAC for playing around and still could not see the difference from MAC version to PC.

 

Graphic design software being...??? Photoshop? Illustrator? I can't imagine these running significantly better on a Mac than on my pc for instance - i7, gtx285, ssd, 6gb ddr3.

[mthomas08]

It's just what I am being told, I am not a MAC lover at all. Would be much happier if they were banned from the "Work" sector and for personal use only.

[localzuk]

It's just what I am being told, I am not a MAC lover at all. Would be much happier if they were banned from the "Work" sector and for personal use only.

 

You're being told porkies I think. As someone said, some graphic design stuff works better in Windows now. The whole thing is a leftover from days of old.

[Guest Guest]

You're being told porkies I think. As someone said, some graphic design stuff works better in Windows now. The whole thing is a leftover from days of old.

 

It is a funny one isnt it. "Macs are industry standard in media, so Im going to get one with iLife"; This reason is so stupid its unbelievable when you look at it. As Im into music production Ill focus on that.

 

Garageband. This is a cut down version of Logic for kids. Granted it is very good for the money, infact the new version has just about everything you would need for a "garage band", but is it industry standard? Well no, not at all. Its backend is Logic but there is no comparison. So what is industry standard, or more appropriatly, what will the kids likely use if they get into music production? Logic pro, Pro Tools, Reason, Cubase, Ableton, FLStudio... the list goes on. So which out of these is Mac only? Only Logic Pro, which funnily enough was also for Windows until Apple aquired it in 2002.

 

"But surely they run better on Mac?"

Intergration between apps, yes they do. Software for OSX does seem to put file in the proper folders more often than on Windows.

Performance wise. From what I can see, no they dont. I have run some tests on Reason between mac and windows and on a £ for £ basis the PC comes out top by a fair margin. If you compare the hardware like for like the mac comes out top, but only just, certainly not enough to justify the costs imo.

 

"But I'm just going to use garageband so you arguement is pointless"

Ok, Garageband is a very good app for kids, but dont delude yourself into thinking it is industry standard because it isnt. Just because the kids can use garageband doesnt mean they will be able to pick up one of the proper DAWs as they are infinately more complex. It has taken me years to "master" Reason (and I use that term loosely because I am certainly still learning), where as I had licked Garageband as soon as I opened it.

 

"But surely this is a reflection on the good quality interface of garageband"

Yes, its really easy to pick up, things are in an intuative place, but most importantly Reason is infinatly more powerful and as such is always going to be harder to use.

 

 

On a final note. Would I buy a Mac if music production was my livelyhood? Yes I probably would. But it would have to be a Mac Pro, which given the cost, I would have to be earning a decent wage to justify the outlay when a PC is just as good in nearly all the important aspects.

If people would admit that they are buying a Mac simply for iLife, and not because its industry standard, I feel alot of these arguements would not come about. But then once one admits that you have to compare the price of "Mac with iLife" to "Windows with Reason/Pro tools/etc", which will be very similar if not less for the PC (especially when you factor in the added support costs and a mac server), and decide which suits your needs the most. Do you want "industry standard" software, or do you want easy software?

Edited January 17, 2011 by Guest

[somabc]

OMG Who started this flamewar of a thread? I'm tempted to neg rep all of you but instead read this and substitute 'mac' for iphone and 'pc' for android.

 

The Daily Mash - iPhone v Android debate 'not important'

 

There had been increasingly heated argument about whether the gadget made by one company was superior to geegaws made by the other companies that did similar things in a slightly different way. Tech blogger, Stpehen Malley, said: "I had always been a rabid advocate of one of the companies because their doo-da was open source and delivered full multitasking. The issues arising from this seemed interesting and important to me. But last Tuesday I was posting simultaneously on several online forums to that effect when, overcome with annoyance by the mere thought of technological imperfection, I turned momentarily away from my monitor to stare out of the window. The sun was setting over the distant hills, and the late evening sky was a peaceful yet dramatic canvas of crimson and azure. The sudden sense of the enigmatic perfection of the universe was such that my soul seemed to leave my body via the top of my head and I imagined myself floating aloft, as much a part of nature as the birds and the trees. When it ended I found I was no longer concerned.

Edited January 17, 2011 by somabc

[Chris_]

I don't love or hate Macs. I use Windows at home and support a Windows network at work (with a few Macs). I would definitely consider a Macbook as my next laptop as they have good build quality, compact size, good specs and OS X which I'd like to learn how to use better. They're also reasonably priced and have good educational discounts and hold their value very well.

 

One thing I hate is people who compare a base spec cheap plasticy 15" laptop to 13.3" Macbook Pro. Miniaturisation costs money. When you start trying to find a 13.3" laptop with the same specs as a Macbook you'll realise that they're not so much of a rip off.

[GrumbleDook]

I have to say that yes ... some of the new android phones which are coming out now *are* better than the iPhone with many, many features ... just as they are better than other phones that came out last week/month/year/century! I bet that the Dell Inspiron 560 is better than the Sony Vaio PCV-RXA842! Tech improves week by week ... we all know this so why do we all insist on gloating when new kit arrives and we it is *so* better than less new kit?

 

There are lots of folk out there that prefer one OS over another because the way it works suits them better. Different people prefer different UIs and before I get people going on and on and on about how you can make pretty much any OS look like any other OS if you know how to tweak this, and code that ... remember that most people who get any technology want to get it out of the box and just press a button and let it go. We get it with cookers, with TVs, with games consoles ... so why not just expect it with computers too? Boot up the machine, it asks for some basic details, it then suggests you either connect your old machine or the backup device from your old machine and it does the rest for you.

 

I keep saying to the Open Source lot ... make it easy for people, make it reliable and you have a better chance. Ubuntu is nice ... but still needs some work. Windows has most stuff going ok, but *for me* OSX nails it.

 

Will folk ever accept personal opinion based on real experiences of using multiple systems? In here, I doubt it ...

 

I am not saying that everyone should move to Macs of any flavour. There are lots out there that will find other OSes better for them, making them more productive, etc.

 

As for the iLife argument ... I am so there with you on that. However (and you knew that was coming), I would say that iLife is not a pro solution, but it is a darned good one for the amateur / prosumer. then again ... there is a reason why I run Logic Studio and Final Cut Studio, yet use Garageband for quick podcast editing as I find it slightly quicker and slicker than in Audacity.

[featured_spectre]

I have to say that is a well answered post Tony.

 

I personally like the Mac OS, its cleaner, smoother and more user friendly than Windows.

Windows however runs everything I need and I don't want to have to faff about putting a second OS on just to run what I need because it is not supported for Mac.

[tech_guy]

In September I'll be buying a 27" iMac, or whatever the latest offering from Mr. Jobs is, for home use as I can't be ar$ed with Windows anymore. I spend too much time faffing around with the spawn of the devil from Redmond at work and I want to be able to go home and just use something that works. My iPad has been a revelation and I don't bother with my laptops at home anymore.

[GrumbleDook]

I like the iPad I have been using from work ... it has been interesting to do a variety of things with it and I do find it better than the other devices I have used so far running windows or android ... though I am waiting for better features such as cameras, microsUSB, etc ... but since I have a MBP at home and an iPhone4 ... I cannot justify one. It would be a gimmick and is not a killer device for me yet. It has legs, but is not running fast enough or far enough. Then again I was advised to wait until iPhone 3G came out and I was glad I did, I was advised to wait until iPhone4 was out ... and I am glad I did. I have been advised to wait on the iPad, but unless I see something special from the next version of from other tablet / slate devices ... I'll hang off getting one for some time.

[sted]

There are lots of folk out there that prefer one OS over another because the way it works suits them better. Different people prefer different UIs and before I get people going on and on and on about how you can make pretty much any OS look like any other OS if you know how to tweak this, and code that ... remember that most people who get any technology want to get it out of the box and just press a button and let it go. We get it with cookers, with TVs, with games consoles ... so why not just expect it with computers too? Boot up the machine, it asks for some basic details, it then suggests you either connect your old machine or the backup device from your old machine and it does the rest for you.

 

 

actually it took me almost as long to get my new ps3 into gt5 as it takes me to get a pc setup. What with os updates, game updates/installing the game it took over 1 hour and probably over 2 to get a game loaded on a console

 

most people can just unbox a pc fill in the blanks and have a working system its only the likes of us that want it "just so" with no time limited/poor software preinstalled its really much of an issue for

[mthomas08]

Sshhhhh Dont say that, we could end up having a dishwasher that needs updating!!!

 

Want to use your kettel? please update the firmware!!!!....

[Rydra]

For me, the advantage of iLife was integration with all the software. It worked like Adobe in that respect, but with less features/easier to use.

 

For the level of home movie/audio work, iLife fits in perfectly. You can edit the video you recorded with your home camcorder/phone, mix in you and your mates playing drums/guitar with sick bass line, then upload it to your iphone and facebook at the same time, while downloading the latest #1 album that your mate recommended was the sickest evah!

 

Above that, with the exception of Final Cut Pro, I found that i could do everything, and in most cases use the same software on either platform.

 

I started the thread, although a little sarcastically as I do not especially like Apple, let alone most of their products personally (owning an iPhone 3G for 2+ years cemented feelings of dislike I had already), but I've always wanted to hold a semi-serious discussion on WHY these arguements happen, and most who i speak to will not go beyond "I <3 Apple" or "I hate Apple", and i might as well debate with my empty Pepsi Max can on the subject for the sense it makes.

 

So for being well reasoned, dare I say it PROFESSIONALS I thank you

 

If I could have mac OS X on a normal PC, and do all the normal gaming and other stuff I do on it, I absolutely would, at least dual boot for it.

I think they've changed it now (i haven't looked at them closeup for a while now) but the Macbooks used to be just as plasticy as any normal one; the MBP came in the nice metal case, the MB's ones came in a horrible white plastic case that got dirty easily, cracked easily, and looked like a 4 year olds toy laptop/computer from ToysRUS.

 

If apple released a macbook in the £4-600 mark, I would bet they'd see a massive takeup in education, and a big boost to home users. Hell even i'd buy one (and probably give it to the wife).

[mac_shinobi]

 

If I could have mac OS X on a normal PC, and do all the normal gaming and other stuff I do on it, I absolutely would, at least dual boot for it.

 

I am pretty sure I am right in saying this ( appologise if I am wrong and am welcome to corrections ) but I doubt apple would do this as they would lose money in there hardware sales and not to mention I think the whole reason behind having a set of pre determined hardware is that you can then build the OS around the hardware and not the other way around because then you know exactly what drivers are required for said hardware, how to program the OS around the said hardware because of the type of CPU's used, etc, etc.

 

Which in my opinion is what helps make the apple OS to a certain degree more stable on there own hardware along with the fact that it is a *nix / BSD type OS as apposed to being like windows OS with all of its weaknesses ie registry, explorer process etc etc

 

Anyway not too fussed about the whole PC vs Mac anymore as they both have there pro's and cons depending on the work flow / type of work or what said person wants to use and purchase for the said persons needs / requirements.

 

Macs are slow on the hardware side ref graphics cards at least and do agree ref the hard drive capacity comment above and also the RAM direct from apple is over priced ( which is why I normally go with crucial for mac ram )