Oops_my_bad Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 Hi, Like many schools, our school has jumped on the Academy band wagon, and hope to have converted by January 2011. We already have arrangements for replacement for FMS which is "Academy friendly", however what I am worried about now is our SIMS database.. I have read that Academy's "must" have a new SIMS instance and cannot transfer data from the school to the academy DB. Under normal circumstances, this would be fine - set up a new SIMS db, get hired help in to manually enter stuff that couldnt be carried over. Fair enough - but what about those who use things like SIMS Learning Gateway? (And therefore Active Directory Provisioning?) I presume we will need to re-provision all 3000 accounts (including staff + students!)
PhilNeal Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 The ruling on this issue has changed and you can keep all relevant data i.e. the lot. You may even get to keep your DfE number. Please contact our service desk for advice. 2
Banjo Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 One of our schools went to a new style Academy on the 1st of this month. The only change is to the School Name (and URN if this field is even filled in on their system) The argument being, that these schools would not want to throw everything away for a fresh start, as their attainment, attendance etc, and associated process, would fall into the outstanding category. The DfE might change this guidance when un/satisfactory schools start to convert. 1
Oops_my_bad Posted October 13, 2010 Author Posted October 13, 2010 Thanks guys. To be honest I still havent had a definite answer. Phil - I did ring the service desk as you suggested and asked if I could speak with someone, but no one ever got back to me. If we do get a new DfE number, how is this changed in SIMS? As I always thought the DfE number was tied to the database? Looking at it the field is greyed out too...
PhilNeal Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 We have a patch to allow the number to be changed. It also makes some adjustments to a few tables that are linked to the DfE number. If you drop me a PM I will make sure that someone calls you. 1
matt40k Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) Thought there were a number of problems if you changed the DfE number and kept your data, pretty sure I say a letter from Capita saying it's unwise and any problems caused because of it would be chargable?Advice_for_academies_(July_2009)_15702.pdf Edited October 14, 2010 by matt40k Added document I was thinking off. 1
splattthecat Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Our new style Academies that started in September kept their DfE number. The old style Academy, formed by the merger of 2 secondary schools had a new DfE number 2
jayemm Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Is there still the requirement for New Style Academies to have to relicence SIMS? I could understand why the Old Style ones did as they basically closed the old school and opened a new school with a new DfE number. But the New Style Academies dont change anything now, except the name. @PhilNeal, do New Style Academies need to re licence and if so why? Also does it make a difference if they are SIMS direct rather than LA supported?
Banjo Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Is there still the requirement for New Style Academies to have to relicence SIMS? I could understand why the Old Style ones did as they basically closed the old school and opened a new school with a new DfE number. But the New Style Academies dont change anything now, except the name. @PhilNeal, do New Style Academies need to re licence and if so why? Also does it make a difference if they are SIMS direct rather than LA supported? Sorry to jump in, but if their not ex grant maintained then, they will need to start selling body parts to afford to re licence
Oops_my_bad Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 @PhilNeal, do New Style Academies need to re licence and if so why? Also does it make a difference if they are SIMS direct rather than LA supported? Not sure what Capita's motivation behind re-licensing is but we've had to handover the equivalent of a full time technicians salary to do this (old licence was bought by LEA). And they had the bloody cheek to put the annual maintenance up too! :/
jayemm Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I notice that there is no response from Phil on this, does this mean that there is no justification from Capita for doing this, but as with other suppliers they fleece schools because they can!
PhilNeal Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 If a SIMS Direct school, i.e. one that has paid for licences at the full price becomes an academy we novate the licence for a fee of £200. LAs bulk purchase at heavily discounted prices and the contract specifically excludes novation i.e. an academy in this situation will have to use some of the start up grant to purchase a licence if they wish to use SIMS. A lot of work has been done to FMS and the Core modules to adapt them to suit academies - most of this work has been wasted however as the DfE has gradually reversed out most of the decisions that had been causing issues. 2
matt40k Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) I feel a FAQ coming on Phil Are the LA licenses schools specific? IE if the LA has 300 schools, are they just 300 licenses? So if a Middle closes and a secondary opens, is the license "transferred" or would they need to get a new license? If it is transferred, what happens when a school closes? Is the LA refunded? Or does it just have a "spare" license which it can use for "new" school? If the school stops paying annual maintainance, for say, 3 years, could it then pick it up again without re-buying the license? Also what if the LA outsources the contract, could the license be transferred then? Or would they have to license ALL the schools? What about if the school has a LA license, but buys additional modules directly from Capita? Can these be transferred, but the core SIMS license can't because it's a LA license? And when is FMS getting updated to .NET? Edited January 27, 2011 by matt40k Added about FMS.
PhilNeal Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Matt, yes an LA is free to reallocate its schools within its domain. If the school buys additional licences at the standard price they can be novated. FMS won't go to .net - it will skip a generation.
matt40k Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 So if a school becomes an Academy it would have to re-license UNLESS it continues "support" with the LA, going by that logic. 1
PhilNeal Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I'm afraid that an academy is outside the domain of an LA and cannot run SIMS under the LA licence. It can of course continue to take support from its old LA and many chose to do so.
MISassist Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 We have a patch to allow the number to be changed. It also makes some adjustments to a few tables that are linked to the DfE number. If you drop me a PM I will make sure that someone calls you. Phil is this KB90486 - LA Utility to edit School Number (4321 edit) that you are referring to? If so it states it is only available to LA's but many academies are going to capita now for the support as the sponsors will not pay the extra. This has certainly been my findings. The 'patch' would be really useful for the new academies coming through.
matt40k Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 You only need to change your DfE number if you’re an old type (Labour) Academy and it's recommend you create a new database. New Academies you don't have to change the DfE number, you just change the school type in Schools details, no patch. If you use FMS, you will need to create a new FMS database because of the large number of changes. It isn't the same as LA school, for example you your probably won't be having central payments unless you buy into a package from your LA or some like http://www.customerservicedirect.co.uk/education/. Also it's not straight forward to configure, at the moment it's a bit of a fudge job so you need someone like Capita or http://www.customerservicedirect.co.uk/education/ who has done this otherwise you'll be investigate a lot of time getting it setup and could have a lot of problems further down the time and a lot of Capita chargeable fixes. PS: The patch regarding changing the code for LA is for changing the training database to the LA code. It's not for use on live systems. There is a patch for changing new schools code from 4321 (ie what you set when you're setting up a new school who doesn't know what the code will be), but you have to request that. Changing a live SIMS DfE number because it has been given a new one (ie has historical data), is likely to be chargeable and any problems will be chargeable - I'll dig out the document stating all this from Capita.
techie08 Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Is it more expensive in terms of the annual support contract?
vikpaw Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Is it more expensive in terms of the annual support contract? Usually direct support is dearer than what you get from LAs so it depends what you need. There have been some recent threads on this topic.
techie08 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Does this also mean that i would have to change all licences and support contract for other software and hardware that the school has purchased if the school went down the academy route?
irsprint84 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Does this also mean that i would have to change all licences and support contract for other software and hardware that the school has purchased if the school went down the academy route? Its mostly capita trying ot get free cash everyone should threaten moving to another MIS
LisaJMarks Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 It seems that the rapid change in the education environment is a pace that Capita are struggling to stay with. I am dealing with 12 academies either converting or under sponsorship this summer and there are no clear messages regarding sims. Please capita, do a idiot guide!
PhilNeal Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 With regards to our charges our sales desk can assist. I'm afraid the guidance that we are getting from DfE regarding the pupil database is that the DfE won't guide schools; they need to get their own advice about data protection law. Some firms are advising that academies should remove staff and pupils that have left which is hard work. Other firms are saying that all data can be transferred. I am trying to get better advice.
LisaJMarks Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 I know, and in this fast paced environment, with Academy sponsors becoming as large as LA's we need to work together. I am trying...
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