Building Schools for the Future plans to be scrapped

[sparkeh]

Why BSF accounts for small % of their global business. One thing about RM CEO Terry (and tim before that) is they are very smart they planned for "BSF to end" years ago. the whole Computrac buyout was to combat some of the BSF ending...

 

Russ

 

Unfortunately it has already had an impact: clicky

[jahbulon]

BSF has died!

 

Everything except for one school has been stopped in Kingston. Only those schools at financial close or on the verge of starting building work will be allowed to finish [400-700 approx].

 

Very disheartening for schools like our own that was at the stage that the contract was out for bidding.

 

For a country riddled with debt, effectively bankrupt, it was a lunatic project.

[psydii]

P4S's BSF model was a truly dreadful way to procure buildings and services.

I've seen consultants consulting on consultants in some cases. Depressingly I even found myself advocating this tactic at one point.

 

Models that call for local technicians, an area manager with centralised second or third line support are overly bureaucratic and inflexible making innovation, change and creativity difficult. They encourage stagnation of working practices, ideas and skills within the school.

 

The real problem for schools stemmed from P4S's approach to services. Schools outsource to some extent already. Good school have managed services too; though these are not necessarily the same. There is need to maintain control, if the knowledge, skills and the resource all lie with the supplier, and there is a high penalty for contract termination all the power lies with the supplier. Outsourcing is essential, we all buy in resource as needed, however if at some point it becomes cheaper to have a full time post we hire someone. It is far easier to align an individual to an organisation than it is to to align a supplier to your organisation. IT services in schools need to be run by individuals with a thorough understanding of the organisation, its aims, its ethos, and the technology. Services designed for a 'Generic School' may adequate for satisfactory schools, but an outstanding school is by definition not generic. This is where BSF has really failed.

[tmcd35]

Aside from my general opposition to privatisation of state services (given how drastically wrong it's gone in many cases), I've maintained for some time that the overall idea of moving to a more central model is not necessarily a bad idea.

 

Done right, it could work. As someone said above, 1 NM to 4 or 5 schools. The problem comes when ICT is sold off to large corporation that want to impose their way of doing things on the school. A look around the virtualisation, multiseat computing, and managed wifi threads will show off how unique each school is and the levels of innovation that could be lost.

 

With the ability to 'hire-and-fire', choose their own curriculum and focus on specilaist subjects that mainstream schools cannot or will not teach. Imagine if a school was setup that concentrated on 'real' IT? Networking, programming being taught alongside maths, and English. Would this be better than current 'specialist' computing colleges which run nothing more than advanced Office courses?

 

I can see that, and if there is a real need for a new school then it sounds great. My fear, and it appear to be already appening, is the stripping of funds from estabilished schools to pay for them. Running old state schools into the ground to fund a new bread of private school.

 

Many schools leaders are clueless about running IT and would be much better off with it managed by someone knowledgeable.

 

An arguement that perhaps Network Managers should be a key part of the schools SLT rather than an arguement for outsourcing? On this I agree with Localzuk:

 

That's the thing though - the network manager isn't really supposed to be doing technical things IMO. Their role, if you separate it out properly into 3 tier support, is to manage the people, manage the purchasing, and strategy stuff.

 

The problem now, of course, is budget constraints. With budget cuts support staff are going to fill the pinch. I could really do with a senior technician added to my staff to free me up and allow me to focus more on the higher level stuff. I'd be lucky in this day and age not to loose a technician. This is the arguement for managed services and why I think it is probably inevitable.

 

Let just hope that when it does happen, it happens right and is not just an wholesale sell off to a large corp.

Edited July 6, 2010 by tmcd35

[DrCheese]

I do hope that they still will invest in the schools that are really falling apart, my area didn't really need BSF as most schools are fairly up to date and most underwent PFI back in the early 00's. But we have one school that is virtually falling apart, old and is oversubscribed. It would be a massive shame if they lost out totally.

[jason2234]

Any one from a birmingham school? whats going to happen here? only about 9 schools are going through now and 60 are not. what does this actually mean for the staff of the 9 schools and what happens from here?

 

I was almost okay with the idea of going to Redstone even tho they are well... hmm... unproductive. There were 69 schools that Redstone would outsource running from their data centre (that cost millions) so the move didn't seem so bad but what happens now there are only 9? Do i want to work this company when my options are just low? Silver lining however is that there are now Birmingham school i can work at as they will not be under Redstone and be inhouse (i assume)

 

Someone please relieve my worries

[timzim]

Any one from a birmingham school? whats going to happen here? only about 9 schools are going through now and 60 are not. what does this actually mean for the staff of the 9 schools and what happens from here?

 

I was almost okay with the idea of going to Redstone even tho they are well... hmm... unproductive. There were 69 schools that Redstone would outsource running from their data centre (that cost millions) so the move didn't seem so bad but what happens now there are only 9? Do i want to work this company when my options are just low? Silver lining however is that there are now Birmingham school i can work at as they will not be under Redstone and be inhouse (i assume)

 

Someone please relieve my worries

 

Try here

[jason2234]

timzim did you read my post i know that most the schools in brum have been stopped i'm trying to find out the news on what then happens to the 9 out of 69 in the region that are going ahead. Do they go ahead with the outsourcing etc.

[jahbulon]

Found this last night, a complete list of the schools being stopped.

 

Enjoy!

05_07_2010_schoolbuilding.pdf

[mrforgetful]

The PDF is linked to on the BBC article.

[jahbulon]

Sorry?

 

Wasn't there last night.

[timzim]

timzim did you read my post i know that most the schools in brum have been stopped i'm trying to find out the news on what then happens to the 9 out of 69 in the region that are going ahead. Do they go ahead with the outsourcing etc.

 

Sorry mate, misread you. I think most people are in the same boat since none of us really knows much yet. Govt may well keep the managed service aspect of bsf since its purpose was essentially to save money (despite all the rubbish about 'improving ICT'). Scrapping bsf is the first of many measures to claw back spending - you can bet your bottom dollar that we'll be in the firing line next...

[jason2234]

lol thanks for that timzim the part where you said "we'll be in the firing line next" really filled me with hope fingers crossed the IT company go bust as they seem to be dependant on the bsf scheme of all the bham schools and a data centre for 69 just isn't gunna financially last running 9 school. i'll start preparing my servers to move with us

[mavhc]

Sorry, but that's nonsense! Managed IT services are used by very many "capitalist" companies who wouldn't dream of touching anything even vaguely resembling communism and they find it works well.

 

It's about trying to work out what needs doing and how best to do it - Microsoft, for example, don't do their own IT - they outsource it and (as I understand it) get it done pretty well.

 

It certainly shouldn't be some central diktat saying that "from tomorrow you will do IT like this" but about each school saying "what we have isn't perfect" (however good it is, it won't be perfect) and looking for how it can be done better.

 

a) it was a simile

b) yes they do Microsoft IT Showcase: How Microsoft Does IT

[DrCheese]

Government apparently messed up yesterdays list with schools missed off/listed wrong, they've reissued an updated one here

http://www.education.gov.uk/news/news/~/media/Files/lacuna/news/bsf/BSFLAwidelistofSchools060710.ashx

[rayfleming]

Microsoft, for example, don't do their own IT - they outsource it and (as I understand it) get it done pretty well.

 

b) yes they do Microsoft IT Showcase: How Microsoft Does IT

 

Well, at last I get to use my favourite education phrase - Everyone's a winner - because we do outsource our helpdesk support (ie when I call our techies, I'm talking to somebody who doesn't work for Microsoft); however the rest of our IT is run in-house by our excellent IT team.

 

And, Yes, IMHO from a IT user perspective, they run it pretty well

[lill]

hummm were still on the list as unaffected and yet we haven't reached financial completion...?

[Bluetooth]

All i can say is YIPEE!

 

As part of BSF i was going to be removed from my post a local high school where i help out. This was due to being primarily a primary schools tech and only working at the high school 4 hours a week and i was flatly told last year that i would "just be removed" no redundency or severence or anything which frnakly upset me quite a bit considering the amount of time ive worked at that school in particular.

 

Now that BSF has gone my job is secure and i can continue working at the school with a great team that isnt going to be messed with or made to watch a clock to fine some stupid company.

 

Plus the buildings thing, well wtf does it really do? It improves the LOOK of the school, that does not directly improve the state of teaching nor the results of the kids. Thank god BSF is gone, no more worries for me =-)

[jason2234]

lill - i think they have they have had to include the second wave of schools in brum because even tho they haven't financially closed i think they are very close to it and can't stop it not, or so i have heard. Our school is nearly finished and looks great now that the school battled and won to stop them making it yellow

No idea what Redstone are going to do now hopefully that won't go ahead either

[localzuk]

Plus the buildings thing, well wtf does it really do? It improves the LOOK of the school, that does not directly improve the state of teaching nor the results of the kids. Thank god BSF is gone, no more worries for me =-)

 

The quality of the teaching environment directly affects teaching and learning.

[maark]

The quality of the teaching environment directly affects teaching and learning.

 

To a certain extent but the quality of the teachers and stength of the management team is far more important - BSf is not value for money and a lot of un-necseeary work has been done. I know some schools are in a bad way and need work but not all.

[lill]

sorry jason you've lost me, you mean you think the build will go ahead without the managed service aspect?

[jason2234]

Well i don't see how they are going to run a data centre designed to run 69 school when only 9 schools will go ahead. Considering the managed service aren't doing so well i just don't see how they can keep going now. This is just a guess from my school but it doesn't look good for their 'plan' (which is over budget, poor and over the contracted deadlines )

[lill]

:-) yep we are of the same line of thinking here.

[jsnetman]

I think a big squeeze on jobs and budgets would have come BSF or no BSF, labour or condem, think I would rather be in non BSF when it comes. After tupe your working conditiona can change after 12 months or whatever the LA negotiate, I would not like to be in that position when the money gets tight.