How long to rebuild a network, servers & workstations

[Ste_Harve]

Hi all,

 

After some peoples opinions on how long it'll take to rebuild a network from scratch. This will include fresh GP's as current ones are bloated and slow to apply. There is 6 physical servers, 7 virtual servers, 250 desktops, 65ish staff laptops and about 100 pupil laptops. Operating systems are a mix of XP, Vista and Windows 7. Will also need to add all staff and pupils. Copy their data back onto servers. Basic testing to make sure they can't get onto what they're not meant to!! Also setting up machines for the admin network with sims.net and the server side of sims.

 

The rebuild is to also move us from our internal 172.16 range to the 10. cleo range.

 

And just for further information there's only one of me!! This has got to include lugging 100 desktops from IT rooms to other rooms, remove old hardware from the other rooms and place new machines in IT rooms which are first floor!!

 

Do you think this could realistically be done in 3 weeks? Or can people put their views over please.

 

Regards,

 

Ste

[Tricky_Dicky]

Short answer is yes I think it can be done if you are left to just get on with it without any other interruptions but it would be a massive job.

 

Do you need to reimage the PCs and laptops or just re add them to the domain? Would it be possible to get some help in from your normal supplier?

 

Rich

[featured_spectre]

Creating your basic image to start with - 1 day PER image as you have mix of XP, Vista and 7 (Operating system, office, other apps) - so 3 days there.

Creating your server farm - 2 days per server (including virtual), so that's 26 days there.

Creating and testing your GPO's. 1 day per set of GPO's. (I am guessing you have one set for students and staff, plus ones set for each OS) so that's 5 days.

Creating your SIMS area and transfer of all data, and then testing it all - 3 days (plus 1 day for the SIMS data transfer). - so thats 4 days.

 

In all 38 days (or 2 working months). That is allowing for mistakes aswell, so if you finish before hand you will look like a god!

 

But that is one hell of a job for 1 man to do!! You had better hope you don't get disturbed or you could easily add another working month on top!

Edited May 11, 2010 by featured_spectre

[tmcd35]

Probably doable in three weeks but I really wouldn't want to myself. It sounds to me as if you are trying to do too much and once and that almost always leads to a world of pain. This sort of work is best done during the summer hols, but even then I'd be very reluctant to do it all at once.

 

Personally, I'd prioritise the work and break it down into smaller more managable chunks and do it piece meal over a few holidays. half-term, summer, half-term at a min. Would probably want to stretch the work into next easter to be safe. Allow plenty of time for a) planning, b) testing and c) even more planning.

 

Do the servers and machines really need rebuilding? Or do you just need to update DNS/DHCP with the new IP details and replace the static IPs? Can you build a new OU structure and GPO's in AD, test with a few machines and then move the PC's to the new OU structure once you are happy, then delete the old OU's.

 

Typically I'd say a 2 days for each server and a day for each fixed ICT suite. A week for all the laptops, excluding teachers, and probably near 2 weeks for the teachers laptops (I don't know why but there always seems to be more unforseen issues with these).

 

Check out Wisesoft for some free tools that'll make AD user account population a real breeze if you really do want to delete all the existing accounts and start again. Should be no more than a 5 minute job to populate AD with users .

[Hightower]

We moved from RM to Vanilla a while ago (previous school) and that took 8 days. That included building servers, creating accounts, copying work etc, setting up GPO's, rebuilding workstations etc etc.

 

There were 2 of us however. Also, a lot of the server stuff was done before we actually moved (as we had new servers to put the Vanilla system on) - like setting up the GPO's and creating the accounts. So the move was probably just copying files, testing, and rebuilding machines.

[penfold]

I assume this is to be done over the summer hols? If so, you can cut down the time you need, by doing some of the things mentioned above now. For example, get all your images done now ready to be applied to the new clients for the summer, then all you need to do is run the updates.

[Pottsey]

I would say that is far too much work for 1 person in 3 weeks. When I estimate projects I like to add on add on 10 or 20% to the time.

 

Let’s say a day per server, that’s setting up, moving, installed, checking the lot. You have 6days just on the servers. More likely that’s 3 days to setup servers, Move onto workstations then 3 days checking workstations work.

 

Break it up, 3 weeks is 15 work days at I assume around 7 to 8 hours a day. 9 daysleft at 7 hours a day gives you 63hours. That leaves 63 hours to do 415 computers divide 63hours over 415 and that does not leave many minuets per computer. Plus unless you are very fit you are going to slow down after moving that much equipment.

 

Perhaps you want to spend more or less time on servers. But break it up. Estimate how long setting up 1 computer takes then times that amount of time by 415 computers. Estimate how long 1 server takes and times by 7. Add on 20% to the total time to cover unexpected problems or things that did not go smoothly.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Pottsey

[Dos_Box]

I'd allocate the summer hols for that, but you can start in slow time by getting all of your virtual servers and disk images ready beforehand as that is quite a simple task and once you have installed your physical servers should speed things along no end.

I think 2 days per server is a bit OTT, unless they are Exchange, SIMs etc, for that I would allocate half a day as if it is AD many of the things you are doing would be duplicated once DCs were promoted etc. A basic server with the basic AD, DNS, DHCP etc installed would take me about half a day barring any hiccups. The user migration would be a pain though. Not complex, just dull, dull, dull matching them back up with GPOs, user areas etc.

What you can do is to virtualise your new AD schema and servers then once your physical servers get reinstalled simply promote them, swap over FSMO roles and you're away. You could start that tomorrow in fact, as if you didn't have enough to do

Edited May 11, 2010 by Dos_Box

[featured_spectre]

I say 2 days for a server install as if you are a novice (I do not know the guys skill level) it can take a while, and it adds in case of any mistakes.

[Pete10141748]

I'd say, no way.

Even if you rush like crazy, no way 1 person can get all that done in 15 working days.

 

Do as much prep-work as you can, plan it as well as you can, but you've gotta allow 5 maybe 6 weeks, at least, for only you to be working on that.

[36Degrees]

Just remember, even if nothing can go wrong something probably will! It only takes one unforeseen problem to completely mess up your scheduling.

[Bezwick]

You say you have 6 Physical servers and 7 Virtual ones, could you not use the virtual servers to create the complete network, then when you have taken your time creating all the GPO, user accounts, permissions, scripts etc, and your sure they work. All you would have to do then is migrate the data over, re-add the workstations and and reinstall the OS on the Physical servers. Which should be easily done in 3 weeks with a few days testing to spare.

I am of course assuming you plan to do all this over the summer Holidays, sounds similar to what i am going to do here (our network is around the same size).

Over half term we are having a new host server, SAN and vmware equpiment installed. I am then going to spend the whole time between then and the summer hols trying out different virtual scenarios (VM's, gpo's, scripts, permissions, profiles etc). Then over the summer holidays will migrate all the data, users and workstations over and decommision our old network.

I think if you try and build the network from scratch in 3 weeks you may well do it, but not sure you will have the time to test it thoroughly.

[tmcd35]

I say 2 days for a server install as if you are a novice (I do not know the guys skill level) it can take a while, and it adds in case of any mistakes.

 

Totally agreed. I've built many a VM hosted server within an hour or two and everything been fine. I've easilly built physical servers, loading OS from scratch and Windows updates and all, within a morning. But for something like this you have to take into account the shit and fan factor. I've had more than my fair share of server builds/moves/migrations that have balls'd up at the wrong point.

 

That's the big reason why, even with 6 weeks hols, I wouldn't change everything in one sitting without a very, very good reason. I've learnt the hard way - prioritise, split into small jobs, and do over few holidays.

[danrhodes]

We had a fire a few years ago at one of our schools and we had their Exchange and File Servers backup and running the day after at another school, we also merged school for a few weeks and had kids from one school in at 7am - 1pm and the other school kids in 1pm - 7pm, support for both schools was a nightmare!

 

D

[AIT]

we are doing this at a school in 2 weeks time so will let you know.

 

p.s. i should state are you including planning time. As i would certainly say its possible within 3 weeks if you have done all pre planning.

[Ste_Harve]

Right guys,

 

Well my skill level I would say is good. Been doing this 10 years now!! But still learn new things daily!!

 

Biggest prob with this rebuild is we're not buying any new servers so can't actually take old ones out until we shut for summer. Our servers need rebuilding as there is bits of viruses lying round that have slowed down the servers and sophos can't remove them. Long story and been onto tech support at sophos. Can't upgrade servers as we're moving from 2003 R2 x86 to 2008 R2 x64, so they need a rebuild. Also the amount of junk and other bits on the servers is concerning. Lot of servers have been upgraded from 2000 to 2003 to 2003 r2 and the face we need to repartition them to sort an ongoing storage issue out.

 

When the network was built 3 years ago by me, it took about 2-2.5 months. Had servers delivered in may, and managed to get them setup, and start testing group polocies and bits then. But this time I don't have the ability to build servers up before hand. This is definately a summer job.

 

Can't really build images at moment as need to test as we've got some rather picky software that doesn't like to be cloned much. And lot of it is done through WDS to get machines up and running. Also have to test whether the group polocies applies to each policy and machine properly.

 

Feel a long summer is going to be here!! Any other tips from people?

 

Ste

[cookie_monster]

I've done this twice at two different schools once as a move away from RM another to move from NT4/98 to 2000/XP. It's a massive task both times it took around three weeks with two people. We had the new hardware so we could test applications and start getting the DC's ready etc before.

I would leave this until summer simply so you can plan to finish with 'at least' a week spare if your schedule is too tight you could end up with a very unhappy SMT.

[Guest Guest]

Depends on your applications. We're starting fresh on Server2008 with XP after the summer. Ive already started on the GPOs. Ive got a RIS image from our current network (will look at WDS later on). SIMS will be done by the lea. We've got 130 new PCs coming, which means 130 in, 130 handed down to the next areas, 130 out, so total 400 machines to move. A couple of core switches to be added and the current config changed on the rest.

Server wise we'll have the Proxy to move from virtual to physical (dont ask), same for the VLE, same for intranet. Then obviously your file server to set up with DFS and a new folder redirection policy. ISA2006. Terminal services. Printers etc...

 

The main bit im worried about is teh applications. We have literally hundreds, all deployed by GPO. Some with hardcoded scripts, some bundled into hardcoded msi/mst...

 

We've got the summer holidays to do it and tbh after taking our holidays in that period i think we're going to be lucky if its all up and running again for Sept. TBF most of what worries me is if teh apps need redoing, and the physical lugging around of 400 PCs up and down 2 flights of stairs!

Theres 2 of us plus a female apprentice (i mention sex due to carrying PCs upstairs)

 

 

3 weeks doable? Yes, if it all goes to plan, but when does that ever happen?

Edited May 11, 2010 by Guest

[tmcd35]

Do you have a spare PC with 64bit VT capable CPU lying around? If so I'd be tempted to install 2008R2 on that and join it to your domain, make it a DC with GC and migrate FSMO roles over to it. Then over the next half term you can build the OU structure and GPO's and test from here. Then once you've rebuilt your first server with 08R2 you can migrate the FSMO roles away from this temp machine and decomission it. Then a lot of the AD/GPO work is out of the way.

 

If you do this then you won't need to completely recreate everyones users accounts. So you can make a full backup of their home folders to tape/disk using a decent backup program like Yosemite that retains NTFS file/folder permissions and restore the back up on to your new file server once built.

 

Now all you need is BulkAD from Wisesoft to run through everyones user accounts to and point their home folders, profile path, etc in the the correct location.

 

Doing it this way I think will save a lot of time and agro and means you don't have to completely re-invent the wheel, so to speek.

[Ste_Harve]

Biggest problem is our current group policies are a mess and a mix from last few years. so thats why starting again.

[penfold]

If you have no spare kit, no money to buy any new kit, so nothing to play with until your existing stuff is not being used (summer hols) then I would say you need to bring your concerns to your SMT. It could all go smoothly, but chances are your going to hit a snag, and without the ability to prep before the holidays you could find yourself running out of time. If you have already informed your SMT it might not be enought time for you to do it on your own, you can see if they are willing to get someone to help you (short term) or at least they already know things might not be working as they expect by September.

[SpuffMonkey]

If you have no spare kit, no money to buy any new kit, so nothing to play with until your existing stuff is not being used (summer hols) then I would say you need to bring your concerns to your SMT. It could all go smoothly, but chances are your going to hit a snag, and without the ability to prep before the holidays you could find yourself running out of time. If you have already informed your SMT it might not be enought time for you to do it on your own, you can see if they are willing to get someone to help you (short term) or at least they already know things might not be working as they expect by September.

 

I'd second that. At the very least I'd acquire a decently spec'd PC and vitualise up a 2008 environment set up how you want it all to work with virtual clients of each variety and make sure it works in principle before you even touch your existing setup - or you'll just be in for a world of pain.

[SpuffMonkey]

And just for further information there's only one of me!! This has got to include lugging 100 desktops from IT rooms to other rooms, remove old hardware from the other rooms and place new machines in IT rooms which are first floor!!

 

We did a 100 PC refresh last summer - that took the best part of a week - what with moving the old PCs, unboxing the new, cabling, assembling, putting the build on, setting BIOS passwords, testing and getting rid of all the packaging.

[Rydra]

I'm looking at doing something similar myself over the summer, but am still in the planning phase of it.

 

3 servers (2 curriculum 1 admin, seperate domains. admin runs SIMS too)

100 approximate computers, about 30 of them staff laptops, only about 5-10 of which are on the domain, rest are standalone.

 

I've been running networks in some manner for about 4-5 years now, and know all too well how to manage one, but this will be my first attempt to rebuild a new one.

What I want to do, is rebuild the server(s) to Server2008r2 since all new machines are going to be windows 7, integrating the admin and curriculum domains.

And a mass rebuild of the workstations, and will add on the staff laptops in september, since most of them are already standalone, shouldn't affect them too much except for printing permissions.

 

One of my curriculum servers is now essentially decommed, it has nothing on it of importance, but is not very powerful, and rather old now.

 

I have a couple of questions on this that would love to get an answer on....

 

-If I rebuild the curriculum servers to a new domain with Server2008 r2, can I decomm the domain on the admin server (running server2003), and add it as a member server on the new domain, without having to reinstall windows, and ultimately SIMS? AKA, does 2k3 and 2k8 play nicely together, or do they all have to be the same version?

-If I understand correctly, I should be able to install windows server 2008r2 on this old curriculum server, setup my GPO's, new images etc over the next couple of months, then, reinstall the main curriculum DC to server2k8r2 over the summer, and pass all control etc over to the new one? Is this correct?

 

The old curriculum server I plan to run as web (site and helpdesk) hosting, AV, maybe some printers etc.

 

And with this in mind, 2-3 server rebuilds, and 70-80 workstations to rebuild (not move or replace), would you reckon 3 weeks is enough time to allocate?