Getting sick of maths homework

[mattx]

I am getting sick and tired of these new methods of teaching kids maths. I have just been shown the new 'chunking' method of division and never seen anything so daft. Showing all these daft methods just confuses the children more.

After showing my son the proper method - [ how many 4's in 7, 1 with 3 left over etc ] he picked it up in less than 15 mins. All these new methods just confuses them [ and more importantly, me ]

[synaesthesia]

I thought exactly the same, and I also believe the same of Phonics but really not my place to say anything. After all, I'm just a lowly technical guy :|

[mattx]

They should change the name from 'basic arithmetic' to 'lets over complicate it and really confuse the little darlings arithmetic'

The way I see it, as long as you get the right answer at the end and you know your method works then that's fine.

[mac_shinobi]

@Mattx - what method of division do you use and what method are they trying to teach them ?

[kmount]

Chunking method? That sounds extreme.

 

I work on the same theory, how many 4's in 7, etc.

[laserblazer]

20 years ago, my daughter came home with a note asking me not to teach her my way of doing long division.

 

I taught the Literacy Progress Unit a few years ago and that included phonics. It was lost on the rank and file kids but top set Y7 thought it was brilliant.

[mattx]

@Mattx - what method of division do you use and what method are they trying to teach them ?

 

I'm not teaching, just trying to help one of my kids with their homework - the method on the sheet is called 'chunking' - you have to approx the answer first which is just plain daft in my opinion.

I have no idea what the method is called that I was taught [ which was over 20 years ago ] - but I know it works and that my son picked it up within 15 mins of me showing him. The 'chunking' method [ from what I understand of it ] is just un-necessary, time consuming and had my son all over the place in regards to working it out. See:

 

ks2 maths division using chunking explained

 

For complete and utter nonsense [ in my opinion ] - there is most probably a wad of data showing that kids find this a good way, but not for me or my son.

 

Example.

 

Chunking

 

Let us try 597 ÷ 22.

 

We use repeated multiplication with numbers that we are confident with such as 10 and 5. We know that 10 x 22 = 220 so we will start by deducting 220 from 597.

 

 

 

 

 

597

 

 

÷

 

 

22

10

 

 

 

220

-

 

 

 

377

 

 

 

We still have more than 220 left over so we will repeat this step.

 

 

377

 

10

 

220

-

 

 

157

 

 

We now have 157 left over. We know that 5 x 22 = 110 so we will now deduct that.

 

157

 

5

 

110

-

 

47

 

 

We now have 47 left over. We know that 2 x 22 = 44. So we do the final step.

 

47

 

2

 

44

-

27

r3

Edited May 9, 2010 by mattx

[elsiegee40]

I've done my time as a primary TA and have seen various methods. When taught properly, chunking is one of various strategies that children are taught to do division. The idea being that they adopt whichever method suits them best and understand that they should all come out with the same answer... a way of cross-checking your working to make sure you have the right answer.

 

The grid method for multiplication was another that seemed over complex when I first sw it, but some children find it much easier.

[mattx]

I've done my time as a primary TA and have seen various methods. When taught properly, chunking is one of various strategies that children are taught to do division. The idea being that they adopt whichever method suits them best and understand that they should all come out with the same answer... a way of cross-checking your working to make sure you have the right answer.

 

The grid method for multiplication was another that seemed over complex when I first sw it, but some children find it much easier.

 

Every single new method that my son has been shown [ so far ] he just gets confused. As soon as I show him the method I was taught [ like I said 20 years ago !! ] he has no problem. Personally speaking I feel some of these new methods are just introduced for sake of it and really achieve nothing. If there is a child say struggling, then show that child [ NOT the whole class ] a different method to see if that helps them, I really see no benefit teaching the entire class different methods.

[featured_spectre]

I agree. I was helping in a maths lesson, and the teacher admitted he found the chunking method useless but had to teach it. It's nit actually te teachers fault, they get told what to teach and how to teach it, not much they can do otherwise!

[mac_shinobi]

Something like this

 

YouTube - Math Made Easy: Long Division

[mjs_mjs]

it's basically long devision - chunking is the same processes but in an odd and silly way (imo)

[Guest Guest]

The way I see it, as long as you get the right answer at the end and you know your method works then that's fine.

 

Totally agree.

 

What really annoys me is when they ask a simple question and you instantly come to the correct answer, yet you get marked down for not showing each pointlessly easy step. While the kid who came to the wrong answer but showed his workings scores more marks.

 

Surerly the point is to arrive at the correct answer? Im sure as hell id prefer the calculations for a new bridge be done by someone who can actually get the correct answer, rather than someone who can show you each step.

 

 

On a side note, apparently "you dont have to be connected to a network in order to access the internet", and "you dont need an ISP, a telephone line, or a web browser to access the net, but you do need a fast computer".

 

Seriously, WTF? (Yes you dont need a telephone line and web browser... but at that level...)

Im getting more and more convinced school is a complete waste of time.

[PiqueABoo]

I am getting sick and tired of these new methods of teaching kids maths.

 

Completely does my head in.

 

Highlight of this year so far: Six-year old **year 2** sprogette being sent home with some maths homework that teacher asked us to do as a "family project". You can find that specific project all over the net and it's very definitely aimed at **year 6**. Lacking 3 - 4 years of the basics leading up to this level sprogette won't understand any of what we're going to have to do for her. Absolutely [bleeping] brilliant.

 

School does this, but doesn't seem interested in fundamentals so I'm currently doing traditional times-tables with sprogette at home (star on the chart when she's recited one faultlessly a couple of times, there's a treat in store for completing the set etc.) and very easily getting her to play TuxMaths.

[Rydra]

I've always done division of numbers by taking the nearest easily dividable number, which are generally multiples of 2, 3, 5 or 10, then calculate the change.

 

So 597 ÷ 22

I'd do by:

22 X 10 = 220 X 3 = 660 ( or 22 X 30 )

Difference is 660 - 597 = 63

22 X 3 = 66

22 X (30 - 3) = 594, difference is 3, multiple is 27

 

Goes on the principle of "Work with what you know, then work out what you don't"

[jamesb]

Completely does my head in.

 

Highlight of this year so far: Six-year old **year 2** sprogette being sent home with some maths homework that teacher asked us to do as a "family project". You can find that specific project all over the net and it's very definitely aimed at **year 6**. Lacking 3 - 4 years of the basics leading up to this level sprogette won't understand any of what we're going to have to do for her. Absolutely [bleeping] brilliant.

 

School does this, but doesn't seem interested in fundamentals so I'm currently doing traditional times-tables with sprogette at home (star on the chart when she's recited one faultlessly a couple of times, there's a treat in store for completing the set etc.) and very easily getting her to play TuxMaths.

 

I never learned my times tables, and still don't know them, but then I'm also reasonably good at mental arithmetic and so have never needed them.

 

The main problem seems to be that people learn in so many different ways, and can understand subjects in different ways. There seems to be an obsession with teaching each and every possible method to make sure that you include all of the kids, rather than just trying to teach the basics and let people derive their own methods.

 

In my opinion pretty much any rote learning seems to be a waste of time and stifle actual development of skills.

[sparkeh]

Ah yes everything was better when we were kids eh? The streets were made of candy, England won the World Cup every four years and Teachers really knew how to teach.

 

Thing about the chunking method is that all it does is break down the method we were taught in smaller steps which helps the kids who can't get their heads around doing the sum in one go.

I've had this discussion with my partner (a teacher) and really it comes down to how sensible/militant the school is about their calculation policy, in her class they begin doing it the prescribed way, some kids stick with it but some kids don't need all the steps broken down or have other methods. Some (sensible) schools allow the kids to do what they find most comfortable, unfortunately some don't.

[witch]

What always bothered me was that the children were given several methods pretty much at once and this confused them. I would have thought that it would be a good idea to teach one method and only show other methods to children who found that one difficult.

 

As for showing the working, there are two reasons for this: One is to avoid cheating, and the other is, that if the answer is wrong, the teacher/examiner can see if the child has got the method correct and just made a silly mistake.

[Guest Guest]

As for showing the working, there are two reasons for this: One is to avoid cheating, and the other is, that if the answer is wrong, the teacher/examiner can see if the child has got the method correct and just made a silly mistake.

 

But surely my point still stands; who would you prefer designing your bridge, someone who can get the correct answer or someone who cant?

 

I personally couldnt write each and every step down as my brain just doesnt work like that. 1 + 2 + 3 is 6. To me it isnt 1 + 2 = 3 _ 3 + 3 = 6 And i cant see why i should have been punished for being clever enough to miss that step

[Duane_Dibbley]

I never did above my 7x tables...and I still cant LOL. My mental arithmetic isn't bad and I can make pretty good guesses at most sums. For everything else there is a calculator! Although showing your working is a pain (I used to hate it), it's actually very useful for teachers, and ultimately kids. It shows exactly where the kid has gone wrong, and whether they just need to concentrate a bit more, or whether they need to be taught the whole process again.

 

But surely my point still stands; who would you prefer designing your bridge, someone who can get the correct answer or someone who cant?

 

I'd prefer the guy who wrote down all his working. In a process like bridge building the working would be checked over by several people to make sure it is correct - no one would trust a multi million pound project and the lives of many people on a number one guy (no matter how intelligent) has plucked out of his head. Ridiculous scenarios aside, it is good practice and well worth doing, everyone makes mistakes now and again and you (or someone else) can always spot them if you have shown your working.

[Dos_Box]

My daughters school are teaching handwriting (in reception) before they can even write normally!!

[Guest Guest]

I'd prefer the guy who wrote down all his working. In a process like bridge building the working would be checked over by several people to make sure it is correct - no one would trust a multi million pound project and the lives of many people on a number one guy (no matter how intelligent) has plucked out of his head. Ridiculous scenarios aside, it is good practice and well worth doing, everyone makes mistakes now and again and you (or someone else) can always spot them if you have shown your working.

 

lol i knew that was coming. Of course im not on about doing the entire calculation in your head, just the smaller steps; simple addition, multiplecation etc. I get the point but at the same time you have to allow for people who know what they are doing. When you do "how tos" or disaster recovery plans you have to assume the person has some knowledge; you wouldnt write "Turn on computer" or "Press the windows flag at teh same time as pressing r, then type cmd", you would simply say "In a command prompt..."