SIMS Server side to be 64 bit

[featured_spectre]

Directly quoted from my email from Capita - names missed off deliberately.

 

Further to our conversation this afternoon please below your requested information, I hope all that we covered on the phone will be contained in this email, but please let me know if I have missed anything off.

 

SIMS Support

 

I can confirm that Windows 7 will be supported after the SIMS Spring Release has been implemented at the school (scheduled to be released tomorrow).

We do support 64 bit servers (this is very recent) and we shall be making this a permanent fixture in all future releases after November 2010. This means that you will need a 64bit server (preferably Windows Server 2008 or Windows Server 2008R2 if you intend on running Windows 7 machines) although workstations will have to be 32 bit to use modules such as NOVA.

SQL Server 2008 R2 should be supported from the summer release of SIMS.

[sted]

so in other words they havnt gotten round to removing the 16 bit stuff thats still legacy from 3.1

[localzuk]

So, we're going to have to:

 

1. Move to SQL 2008
   
2. Move to Server 2008 (or R2) 64bit
   

 

So, for those people who use Select licensing, they end up with the lovely expense of:

 

• SQL Server 2008 licensing
  
• SQL Server 2008 CALS
  
• Server 2008 licensing
  
• Server 2008 CALS
  

Lovely.

 

Not to mention the fun of actually migrating things.

[sted]

So, we're going to have to:

 

1. Move to SQL 2008
   
2. Move to Server 2008 (or R2) 64bit
   

 

So, for those people who use Select licensing, they end up with the lovely expense of:

 

• SQL Server 2008 licensing
  
• SQL Server 2008 CALS
  
• Server 2008 licensing
  
• Server 2008 CALS
  

Lovely.

 

Not to mention the fun of actually migrating things.

 

and you cant standardize your win7 workstations on x64 you either have to have a mix of x86/x64 or all x86 which is dumb

[matt40k]

I think someone got confused at Capita.

 

32bit and 64bit Windows Server 2003/2008 is supported. No end date for 32bit only servers.

 

Windows 2008 Server R2 has yet to be announced when it will be (officially) supported.

 

Microsoft SQL 2008 R2 has also, yet to be announced when it will be (officially) supported.

[featured_spectre]

I got that info from one of the developers whom I know personally. Whilst there is no official date of support, his info is highly reliable...

[matt40k]

"should" and "is official support" are totally different things. One could leave you with a broken system and no support.

[painejake]

'Apparently' they have supported x64 for a while now. Or some someone from SMIS told me. Never had enough faith in him to try it though

[Oops_my_bad]

and you cant standardize your win7 workstations on x64

 

Why..?

 

2008R2 is 64bit only - long long overdue in my opinion.

[localzuk]

Why..?

 

2008R2 is 64bit only - long long overdue in my opinion.

 

Because SIMS.net client only supports 32 bit? Hance not being able to standardise on 64bit.

 

However, discussing this with my manager earlier - it just couldn't happen. Think of it this way - how many first/primary schools exist out there? How many of them are running 32 bit servers at the moment? I'd guess nearly all of them.

 

In Somerset all our first schools are supported by the LEA/SouthWest One. That's a few hundred schools - do you think they have enough time to change all of those servers over to 64bit? Plus them all needing new licenses (server licenses and cals). That is a major change.

 

No, this is highly unlikely to be a mandatory change - they'd have every LEA in the country wanting to kill them, or moving to CMIS etc...

[Oops_my_bad]

In Somerset all our first schools are supported by the LEA/SouthWest One. That's a few hundred schools - do you think they have enough time to change all of those servers over to 64bit? Plus them all needing new licenses (server licenses and cals). That is a major change.

 

If they have money to burn by being so inefficient as to have a server on every site just for SIMS then I'm sure they can afford the changeover to 64bit.

[featured_spectre]

If they have money to burn by being so inefficient as to have a server on every site just for SIMS then I'm sure they can afford the changeover to 64bit.

 

Well said.

 

However stupidly (or not when you look at it), Capita installed a fresh SIMS server in the primary down the road on 32bit (I assist alot there), when I asked the engineer why, the reason was "Capita will be upgrading the server when the 64bit version becomes mandatory"...in other words...they are screwing them for more money...

[localzuk]

If they have money to burn by being so inefficient as to have a server on every site just for SIMS then I'm sure they can afford the changeover to 64bit.

 

No, maybe I wasn't clear. Every first school has a server - that server runs their network, and runs SIMS.net also. That's how most schools are, in fact - only the bigger schools split the roles out to different boxes.

[Oops_my_bad]

Well said.

 

However stupidly (or not when you look at it), Capita installed a fresh SIMS server in the primary down the road on 32bit (I assist alot there), when I asked the engineer why, the reason was "Capita will be upgrading the server when the 64bit version becomes mandatory"...in other words...they are screwing them for more money...

 

I see this all the time, however it doesn't stop there. A lot of primaries also buy into server support for their admin/SIMS server from Capita and they are charging schools over the odds for the hardware they supply, eg they charged one school £7.5k for a "mediocre" Dell server which you could probably have got hold of for £4/5k online). And yep - they put WS2003 32bit on there So no, I do not accept that Primary's are short of money at all, merely the money isn't being used effectively.

 

in the case of that school, the £1.5k they could have saved in procuring that server properly, they could have migrated to 64bit at the same time for nothing.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Oops_my_bad

[sted]

If they have money to burn by being so inefficient as to have a server on every site just for SIMS then I'm sure they can afford the changeover to 64bit.

 

i cant think of a single schools who dosent have a server for sims usually atm still a 2003 x86 box. Its usually the ONLY server on the admin network so is a dc and holds all roles etc. Its slowly starting to happen that the networks are joined as tbh having 2 separate networks when one usually has 3 workstations (one is usually the server) are being merged but because you are all but locked into the leas preferred isp its akward as some things have to be done on 10.x.even.100 ip address or they just fail and doing that means you either have a max of 256 ips or having 2 networks or 2 nics in at least one server

[PhilNeal]

Not sure what's been said by whom and have made sure that the desks know the position which is:

 

1. We support both 64 and 32 bit variants of Windows Server 2003 and 2008 and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future as many schools have 32 bit Servers.
    
   
2. We do not currently support Windows Server 2008 R2 for SIMS and have no plans to do so in 2010 but we will be supporting this for SLG (for the Application tier and ADPS server) from the Summer 2010 release.
   

[localzuk]

Not sure what's been said by whom and have made sure that the desks know the position which is:

 

1. We support both 64 and 32 bit variants of Windows Server 2003 and 2008 and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future as many schools have 32 bit Servers.
    
   
2. We do not currently support Windows Server 2008 R2 for SIMS and have no plans to do so in 2010 but we will be supporting this for SLG (for the Application tier and ADPS server) from the Summer 2010 release.
   

 

With point 2, isn't this a little bit of an issue, as many schools wanting to move to Windows 7 on the client side will be wanting to move to 2k8r2 also? What that extra time means is that the school then has to support a mix of servers, and a mix of clients. ie. that single problem forces a massive obligation onto the shoulders of schools.

 

Not to mention the lack of full 64bit support on the client still, forcing schools to stick with 32bit Win 7 or implement terminal services etc...

[Arthur]

With point 2, isn't this a little bit of an issue, as many schools wanting to move to Windows 7 on the client side will be wanting to move to 2k8r2 also? What that extra time means is that the school then has to support a mix of servers, and a mix of clients. ie. that single problem forces a massive obligation onto the shoulders of schools.

 

Not to mention the lack of full 64bit support on the client still, forcing schools to stick with 32bit Win 7 or implement terminal services etc...

I'm very disappointed to hear this too, although it is not surprising given that Capita are a big company.

[Oops_my_bad]

Phil - any particular reason why Capita have no plans to support SIMS on 2008R2?

[Jobos]

I'm sure that if there was more competition Capita would support 2k8r2 without delay.

[Batman]

I'm sure that if there was more competition Capita would support 2k8r2 without delay.

 

As would RM

[Arthur]

With point 2, isn't this a little bit of an issue, as many schools wanting to move to Windows 7 on the client side will be wanting to move to 2k8r2 also? What that extra time means is that the school then has to support a mix of servers, and a mix of clients. ie. that single problem forces a massive obligation onto the shoulders of schools.

Classic no-win situation. Capita won't support 2008 R2 because not enough schools are using it. School's can't upgrade to 2008 R2 because Capita won't support it. What can you do though - other than the obvious?

[matt40k]

Why would Windows 7 affect your choice of OS for your SIMS server? Surely you wouldn't install SIMS and AD etc on the same server? Specially with virtualization.

[localzuk]

Why would Windows 7 affect your choice of OS for your SIMS server? Surely you wouldn't install SIMS and AD etc on the same server? Specially with virtualization.

 

Because, a lot of schools don't want to run a mix and match of server OS's.

[matt40k]

Stupid question, what actually is different between Windows Server 2008 and Windows Server 2008? From the support aspect, they look the same etc? I know R2 has some new bits, but is there anything that might make it difficult to do dual support?