Windows Vista or Ubuntu Linux?

[djm968]

I don't think it really matters if it is free (no cost) or free (open source) any Linux advocate will tell us that Linux is a very attractive alternative to M$ so why then does M$ still dominate the market, Linux accounts for less than 2% of desktop OS.

 

Asking which OS is better is a bit like comparing Betamax to VHS

[Geoff]

Linux beats Microsoft in other markets though. Embedded systems and servers are obvious examples.

[webman]

so why then does M$ still dominate the market, Linux accounts for less than 2% of desktop OS.

 

Becuase MS abuse their monopoly position.

[NetworkGeezer]

And lets face it cmd.exe is no substitute for bash.

 

Quite right. You can't even use the keyboard to paste from the clipboard.

 

Are you sure about that mate?

 

ALT+Space then Edit then Paste

 

Granted it's much nicer just right-clicking in Quick-Edit mode

[djm968]

Linux beats Microsoft in other markets though. Embedded systems and servers are obvious examples.

 

Very true, Linux is these senarios is obviously the right tool for the job.

[webman]

I stand corrected, NetworkGeezer I also wonder why MS thought the standard of Shift+Insert or Ctrl+V wasn't appropriate in this instance.

[Geoff]

I also wonder why MS thought the standard of Shift+Insert or Ctrl+V wasn't appropriate in this instance

 

because that'd break Dos Apps.

[webman]

Ah, that figures

[NetDiag]

Asking which OS is better is a bit like comparing Betamax to VHS

 

I think you have missed the point. The idea of starting this thread was to really highlight the pros and cons of each one in analysing their strengths and weaknesses, etc. We have had some usefull comments and opinions on here regarding the two.

 

The idea was to allow people to make up their own minds on which they prefer and which is best for them, although let's face it there can't be many people out there that would dump Windows and just use Linux because as people say Windows is still useful for certain things or prefer to do certain tasks than Linux. Needless to say both OS'es may perform a task just a well but it might be preferable to use one over the other for certain things.

 

Really the main attraction of Linux to be fair is it's versatility, nill cost and variety of applicable uses. In my opinion Linux is better because it doesnt cost and it can perform as well as windows, and of course will run nippier on lower spec hardware. We all know that. The only downsides to Linux in my opinion is its a pain to configure and setup and support is poor.

[Geoff]

Not really, because Alt-Space breaks Dos apps too.

[openhgs]

Asking which OS is better is a bit like comparing Betamax to VHS

 

Since you mentioned it, it's Betamax - far higher tape to head speed so better picture quality. VHS won 'cus they had better sales people.

[MkII]

Sorta similar to M$ then

[ChrisH]

We have 2 AMD64 servers here running Ubuntu Server (AMD64). Both are LAMP servers. One runs http://vle.carrhill.lancs.sch.uk and it's uptime is currently 125 days.

 

 

Cool, I have 13 Windows 2003 servers running all kinds of things, current uptime for all 250+ days .

 

If the servers have been up that long what happens when an update needs to restart the machine?

[NetworkGeezer]

@Geoff & Openhgs

 

Surely even Linux needs planned down time for kernel updates?

[CyberNerd]

Stable distro's don't update the kernel that often, I get quite regular updates to edgy kernels but much less on RHEL.

I don't know what vista is like for reboot updates, and general system maintenance and I'm not likely to belive microsoft marketing machine on this one.

 

djm968 wrote:

so why then does M$ still dominate the market, Linux accounts for less than 2% of desktop OS.

Like child abusers, MS prey on ignorance and vulnerability.

 

I honestly do feel ripped off by what microsoft sell us. Our school spends thousands every year on microsoft yet we still aren't legal. Even with educational pricing I feel that the school is being exploited. More schools should opt for the route that openhgs and others have taken although I I know BSF will put a stop to this.

I for one won't be lineing Gates' pocket with the cost of a vista upgrade.

[GrumbleDook]

I can't understand why it is only ever MS that get grief for this ... Macromedia/Adobe are just as bad with their products ... and let us not get into those of us who paid for the beta of OSX ... and then 10, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 ... and have pre-ordered 10.5!!!

 

Symantec are the same too ... a new verion of Systemworks or Internet Security every year ... and then we have the games market ... football management games get an update each year so that means Championship Manager and Football Manager get bought ...

 

And then we have the uproar about the online model ... almost renting the software ...

 

Let me introduce you to World of Warcraft ... one of the most successful pieces of software out there ... with mulititudes paying monthly!!!

 

Instead of just attacking the business model of MS how about we get back to original idea of this thread ... will either of the above OSes do anything for you and if so, what?

[Geoff]

@Geoff & Openhgs

 

Surely even Linux needs planned down time for kernel updates?

 

No you can avoid that if you really want to. You virtualise the system (user mode Linux is the easiest option here). Have two virtual machines running with Failover (eg, failoverd). You take one down and upgrade it (failoverd kicks in and redirects users to the other virtual system). Then take the other down and upgrade it. The failover will allow the system to keep running and servicing user requests while you upgrade the kernel(s).

 

Note though, in this situation you don't upgrade the host kernel running the UML virtual systems. But as it's not 'exposed' (all the services that users interact with are running in the virtualised environments) this isn't a major issue 99% of the time.

 

But yes, sanity demands you don't bother will all this madness and reboot the box occasionally for kernel updates instead, it's simpler.

[webman]

Yep, it's not just MS - Apple et al are just as bad. All these commercial vendors are just in it for the money and to please the shareholders.

[ITWombat]

Like child abusers, MS prey on ignorance and vulnerability.

 

Woah! Thats a bit strong. Remember it's only software. I don't think one person has died because of Microsoft's market dominance. Also the work done by the Gates foundation will probably do more for the health of children then all Linux distros put together.

 

I honestly do feel ripped off by what microsoft sell us. Our school spends thousands every year on microsoft yet we still aren't legal. Even with educational pricing I feel that the school is being exploited.

 

Too many people on this site think of free software as no cost software. The true comparison would be putting together a stack based on commercial distros RHEL or SLED rather than CentOS.

 

Even programmers have to make a living. It was really sadening when the OpenBSD devs had to go cap in hand to all and sundry to get the money to continue. I mean, after all they had done to increase OS and network security, it was just so heart breaking.

 

Of course we EduGeeks live a monastic exustence only doing the job for the gratitude of teaching staff

[limbo]

Personally I have no problem handing over money to Microsoft which I do through our schools agreement (by far the easiest way to stay legal if not always the cheapest).

 

I would not consider any other solution because:-

 

1) The software works very well with minimal support time

2) More people know how to use it than any other software so minimal training required for new staf

3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.

 

I am looking forward to rolling out (will automatically be licenced on all our machines thanks to the schools agreement). Just as soon as we can get Adobe Premiere elements running on it! (no luck so far)

[k-strider]

Limbo on your point about traning for the real world... i have to agree..

 

when i was at school we used BBCs (early days)and ACORNS and well when i was at 6th Form Windows was well established ( 96-98 ) but our school still used Acorns and me and another Guy wanted to do computing but we said to the Teacher can we do it on PCs instead of Acorns cause as soon as we leave here we will be using PCs and Windows...

 

they basically said no.. so i did Business Studies instead...

[Pear]

Its really more of a Linux v Windows thread than Ubuntu v Vista. More appropriately it should be Edgy v Vista. I use Kubuntu at home, Ubuntu on the laptop and Windows in school but only because I have to (even then the thin clients boot with PXE linux)

 

Kubuntu Dapper (With latest KDE) > Edgy > Vista > XP

[GrumbleDook]

Personally I have no problem handing over money to Microsoft which I do through our schools agreement (by far the easiest way to stay legal if not always the cheapest).

 

I would not consider any other solution because:-

 

1) The software works very well with minimal support time

2) More people know how to use it than any other software so minimal training required for new staf

3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.

 

 

AAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH ... the worst reasons in the world!!!

 

ok .. point one is valid of pretty much any OS once you take the time to work with it ... ok, apart from maybe RiscOS.

Point two ... a very poor arguement ... people know it because they use it ... if they used something different they would know that too.

Point three ... the idea is not to teach the kids how to pass exams (even though that is the benchmark set down for schools by DfES and society in general) but to teach them how to learn. One of the best methods is to introduce them to different situations.

 

Ensure teh students learn transferable skills ... it means that they become adaptable and will not be phased when they suddenly have to change systems if the company they work for gets bought out. (one parent this year has admitted to using W2K, XP Pro, OSX, Windows terminal Server, Sunrays, Red Hat and SuSE ... all becuase of changes within the company and parent company! talk about being adaptable!!!)

 

If you take the Army ... one of the stock phrases you will hear in traing is "improvise, adapt, overcome!" ... the ability to change is paramount.

 

Ok ... off my soapbox now.

[limbo]

The army may promote the ability to change (and even Monty Python were heard to say "Adapt, Adopt an improve" - although that was in a lingerie shop so probably very different to the army, or perhaps not!)

 

But they also promote familiarity with your kit - repetition to the point of automation.

 

And it was not realy the students I was thinking about in terms of number two - kids can adapt to anything - it is the digital imigrants that make up a teaching staff that have trouble if a toolbar moves slightly to the left.

 

Having to support them through learning a new OS / Office suite would probably lead to me giving up completely!

[ConTheITGuy]

3) A big part of our role in schools is not just to get kids through exams but to prepare them for the real world - and the real world is pretty much a Microsoft one.

 

I seem to remember reading about (maybe it was on here) a conversation someone had with a business person. The reason they used MS was because that was what their employees had learned in school!

 

Andy