BSF and Birmingham schools

[Kyle]

Can anyone help with any info about BSF and Birmingham schools?

 

I am thinking of looking for a job as a tech in a Birmingham school because it will be easier to commute than where I am based now. My only concern is all the rumours about BSF. I know no one really knows too much about this yet but I just wondered if anyone who works in a B'ham school had heard any thing at all about the prospects of BSF in Birmingham.?

[CyberNerd]

Birmingham only recently went out for tender, IIRC its wave 2 so you'll probably still have a job for a couple of years.

This guys presentation looks mostly a rehash of things becta told us about, It does say that the service will be entirely outsourced (they all do)

http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/files_uploaded/uploaded_resources/14096/BiddersDay6-CM.pdf

 

Service Birmingham's role

• Service Birmingham is a JV involving BCC and Capita to

provide ICT services to the City and drive Business

Transformation

• To ensure a “level playing field” -

– Service Birmingham will not be involved in any bidding

consortium for BSF

– Service Birmingham will support the LEP in delivering some

services retained by the City Council

– Confidentiality agreements between Service Birmingham

and BCC prevent SB employees favouring Capita

– SB will not maintain BSF data rooms for bidders during the

procurement

:

[alan-d]

It depends on what area you work in - our school is on the end of the list - years away.

[danIT]

ours is one of the first 10 or so, 1st phase school, and i know no more than a school 5/6 years away, All i know is its been delayed delayed, put off and delayed. Our hedteacher wants to keep IT support, also wants to keep caretakers etc, so will not agree to contracting out support. Bu theres always a carrot dnagling on the end of that stick which could change here mind, perhaps IT support gets to stay in house we just dont know?

[broc]

Not sure about Birmingham, but elsewhere

 

BSF carrot & stick approach seems to be:

 

Carrot = £1450 per student investment

 

Stick = £0 per student investment

 

If that is not enough incentive, there is a 'trump' card....

 

Delay ICT managed service decision = delay to BSF funding, for whole LA

 

Not many Head Teachers will hold out against these sticks....

[Grommit]

No middle to long term Future... but after 5 years when the managed Services are finished there might be a future

[tosca925]

What makes you think it is 5 years?

[broc]

What makes you think it is 5 years?

 

Schools have to sign up for a minimum of 5 years managed service according to P4S

[Technomancer]

DfES strategy is managed services. However someone will still have to do the work and if schools IT provision is outsourced TUPE will surely apply. You might end up working for someone else, but hey, that's life.

[Grommit]

could this be moved into the BSF forum please

[ChrisH]

could this be moved into the BSF forum please

 

Your wish is my command

[david_1152]

Birmingham is down to the last two. Redstone & RM. RM is pitching citrix and Redstone terminal services with share point.

 

Early next year for ICT hand over I hear.

 

Regarding TUPED, I’d like to remind you all that you do have the ‘right’ to object to the process, in other words being ‘TUPED’ into their organisation. One word of warning however, to quote the paper work on the subject :-

 

Yes you have the right to object by informing either your school or your new employer. You should note that this mean you will be treated as if you have resigned, not as if you have been dismissed.

 

Nice eh?

 

On a slightly different note. It does seem that a school could opt out of the ICT section of BSF but keep the new build and money. There is a big BUT however. The school must provide the same service as the third party. This is something I’m looking into. If any one has any information on this, either please post it here, or mail me.

 

Ta.

 

Oh and the 5 year thing - that is spot on. Here the BIG thing for your heads to remember.

 

Right this is the way it got explained to me in a meeting with both redstone and RM. After 5 year of the schools paying a truly huge sum of money the contract ends, if you want to stay with the company a renegotionation will have to take place. (I’m sure this means they will charge what ever they like) Because if you don’t sign with them – it’s no problem they’ll pull the plug. Remember all the schools servers are elsewhere. So if they pull the plug – bye bye network. You’ll be left 5 years later with nothing, and not a lot of money to do anything about it.

 

This is how I understand it from a meeting with the main boys on the subject. I must point out I might be wrong about this, but. Really I don’t see how. The question was asked time and time again. If we don’t renew what would we be left with – apart from a 5 year old building and thin clients everywhere, answer none of the managed services. Like the servers and network? Answer yes.

[jamin100]

ok, so let me get this right.. in the next 5 years i may be out of a job due to BSF?

 

There going to take all of the servers away and host them offsite. So all the money that has been spent over the past 2 years on ICT was a waste?

[beeswax]

ok, so let me get this right.. in the next 5 years i may be out of a job due to BSF?

 

There going to take all of the servers away and host them offsite. So all the money that has been spent over the past 2 years on ICT was a waste?

 

It hasn't been wasted as your current pupils have had the use of them. I also think, though someone can correct me on this, that the value of your old equipment is taken into account when calculating what you'll get in the new school/refurbishment (delete as appropriate).

[projector1]

i am absolutelly shocked by this, was not even aware of it.

Just spoken about it to SLT, they say as we are a self governed school we do not have to go with it.

 

First the news about single status, now this, i am going complete my mcse and then review what my next step will be. I simply like many of you cannot afford to not know where we stand and with a mortgage, etc. Not comfortable at all with all this.

[david_1152]

Beeswax is right. They'll take away your servers and deduct some money off your costs.

 

Im gutted myself really because we already run a citrix base. We already offer to our pupils everything (mostly) that RM or Redstone will give us. so I just cant see the point.

 

all that pain for no real improvement for the staff or pupils.

 

Okay so I dont do a 24 hours a day 7 days a week telephone help line like them, well not yet anyway, I guess they'll soon have me doing that just as soon as I'm tuped.

[jcs808]

Where can I learn more. In particular to do with Birmingham BSF. We haven't been told anything. Doesn't supprise me though, nothing was said about single status either.

[jamin100]

So when BSF takes over what happens to us NM's ?

 

Surely they can't just sack us ?

[CyberNerd]

Surely they can't just sack us ?

 

No, that would be unfair dismissal. What they do is transfer NM's and technicians to the new employer under TUPE regulations. The new employer is then able to issue redundancies.

[cookie_monster]

Regarding the 5 year part i'm sure i've read elsewhere that the school would only be tied in for one year of course i imagine the company will move servers off site ASAP to present the same problem. Can the amount of time vary depending on what the LA specify?

[jamin100]

No, that would be unfair dismissal. What they do is transfer NM's and technicians to the new employer under TUPE regulations. The new employer is then able to issue redundancies.

 

And is / has this happened with schools currently under BSF ?

[beeswax]

i am absolutelly shocked by this, was not even aware of it.

Just spoken about it to SLT, they say as we are a self governed school we do not have to go with it.

 

First the news about single status, now this, i am going complete my mcse and then review what my next step will be. I simply like many of you cannot afford to not know where we stand and with a mortgage, etc. Not comfortable at all with all this.

 

When you say "self-governed", what do you mean? Are you a "public" school, Foundation school or Academy?

[CyberNerd]

And is / has this happened with schools currently under BSF ?

 

Only if the new company has declared how many techs they want in the new school prior to the TUPE transfer taking place. They can't make someone redundant unless they declared it or its for technical, economic reasons.

 

Just spoken about it to SLT, they say as we are a self governed school we do not have to go with it.

 

No-one *has* to accept it, but they don't get any funding if they don't. In any case

I doubt SLT are told the full details and - its in their interest to maintain the service they have. If they give you too much information you might just leave.

[broc]

Regarding the 5 year part i'm sure i've read elsewhere that the school would only be tied in for one year of course i imagine the company will move servers off site ASAP to present the same problem. Can the amount of time vary depending on what the LA specify?

Schools who agree to the managed service will be expected to sign up for the duration of the contract, typically so far these have been either 5 years or 10 years. The actual duration of the contract will be decided by the LA.

 

When I was asked as Chair of Governors at a wave 1 secondary school to agree 'in principle' to the managed service I asked what the schools options were to terminate the contract early if we felt the service was not delivering what we had agreed to; I was told as an individual school this would not be possible, although the LA could pull the plug on the whole service if it failed to meet the targets & agreed levels of service. This would not however be a quick & easy task and there would be serious legal and financial hurdles to overcome.

 

Basically the message was once you are 'in', you are stuck with it for the duration of the contract. My Governing body, along with others in the LA were given little choice but to sign up, the alternative being to delay the whole BSF process for the whole of the LA and deny the students at our schools the benefits of new buildings, with new equipment & resources.

[jamin100]

This is probably a stupid question, but is this happening to primary schools too ?