Experience and/or Higher Education

[LosOjos]

Looks like a great job, in my area too. Times like this I wish I'd gone to uni.

[IanT]

Gone to Uni?!?!?!?!?! Why?

 

I've been a Network Manager and not gone Uni...............

 

You could apply for it?

[LosOjos]

Yeah I suppose it wouldn't hurt to apply, either way, thanks for sharing

[IanT]

Doesnt matter if someone has a degree/gone uni compared to a person who hasnt.

 

My last school I worked at I outperformed all my predecessors who were educated at a high level.

 

Never be put off chap.

[GrumbleDook]

Another non-degree person here ... a firm believer in the meritocracy of getting a job done and doing it well!

[john]

Another non-degree person here just because they mention it if you have the skills go and show them off

[mossj]

a firm believer in the meritocracy of getting a job done and doing it well!

 

Top attitude +1

[Deeleys]

Although a degree is not the be all and end all, it shows a certain level of competency and is advantageous when applying for jobs. I spent 12 years part time doing a BTEC ONC, BTEC HNC, BSc and MSc as well as Microsoft qualifications. It definately opens doors and allows you to negotiate higher wages.

[IanT]

Although a degree is not the be all and end all, it shows a certain level of competency and is advantageous when applying for jobs. I spent 12 years part time doing a BTEC ONC, BTEC HNC, BSc and MSc as well as Microsoft qualifications. It definately opens doors and allows you to negotiate higher wages.

 

Don't agree

[Deeleys]

Don't agree

 

I can only offer you my opinion based on 25 years of working experience and as someone who recruits staff in the education sector on a regular basis. I suppose it comes down to an individual's ambition of how far they want to go with their career. Again, based on my own experience, I would suggest that a degree helps in terms of salary and quality of school.

[IanT]

I respect your opinion

[Snuffkins]

I can only offer you my opinion based on 25 years of working experience and as someone who recruits staff in the education sector on a regular basis. I suppose it comes down to an individual's ambition of how far they want to go with their career. Again, based on my own experience, I would suggest that a degree helps in terms of salary and quality of school.

 

 

I agree in part. However i don't believe ambition is linked with wanting to study. I think if you are ambitious you will find whatever way suits you to progress your career. A lot of people do place a large emphasis on being well educated, but having being on the occasional panel myself i am always more inclined to go with proven experience over educational background. We all know full well that a large quantity of MCSE/CCNA qualifications are crash courses and while you have the certification in your hands you may not know what you are doing. A degree is different of course, you can't exactly bimble through that, lol. I admire the way you've done it as well, takes a lot of dedication to stick at it that long. Although again it isn't proof that the knowledge gained can be applied. If you know what i mean.

 

I left uni without completing my degree as i couldn't stand learning the same material over and over again and it wasn't challenging me enough, so i took off with my HND and got a job as a trainee. Where the ambition came into it for me was progressing my career through hard work and experience, while picking up the odd certification here and there as the training was offered.

 

I think sometimes it also takes a bit of good fortune to get on the ladder and get to prove yourself in a job if you're not qualified.

[EduTech]

Spit from another thread to stop it going of topic Edited January 20, 2010 by EduTech

[broc]

As someone who started my working life at a time when very few people got the chance to go to University & Grammar Schools were the order of the day I have managed to make my way in life with nothing more than an HNC & real-world experience, during which time I have helped train people with 1st Class degrees from Oxford, Cambridge, Durham Universities....

 

In my view, any employer who recruits based purely upon qualifications is being sort-sighted & may not be getting the best candidates for their vacancies. Sadly I know of many organisations that allow their HR depts to 'pre-filter' applicants based upon essential criteria which often includes qualifications, so many candidates get rejected because their experience never gets considered.

 

When we look for candidates to fill ICT vacancies at my school we do include minimum qualifications but I would never discount any candidate who has the real-world experience we are seeking even if they don't have the paper qualifications. I have seen too many people who had the bits of paper, could 'talk the talk' but were completely clueless when it came to doing the job.

 

Give me experience anytime....

[Deeleys]

I agree in part. However i don't believe ambition is linked with wanting to study. I think if you are ambitious you will find whatever way suits you to progress your career. A lot of people do place a large emphasis on being well educated, but having being on the occasional panel myself i am always more inclined to go with proven experience over educational background. We all know full well that a large quantity of MCSE/CCNA qualifications are crash courses and while you have the certification in your hands you may not know what you are doing. A degree is different of course, you can't exactly bimble through that, lol. I admire the way you've done it as well, takes a lot of dedication to stick at it that long. Although again it isn't proof that the knowledge gained can be applied. If you know what i mean.

 

I left uni without completing my degree as i couldn't stand learning the same material over and over again and it wasn't challenging me enough, so i took off with my HND and got a job as a trainee. Where the ambition came into it for me was progressing my career through hard work and experience, while picking up the odd certification here and there as the training was offered.

 

I think sometimes it also takes a bit of good fortune to get on the ladder and get to prove yourself in a job if you're not qualified.

 

I agree about having experience, you would have to take everything in to account and take everyone on their own merit. Having qualifications, experience and being a hard worker would make a very good candidate. I have met many people on courses that have tried to bimble along and have failed miserably.

 

I would say that both my degrees have been very beneficial in terms of knowledge of how and why we do things (probably in a in a perfect world though) where as my experience has shown me how things are done in reality. I think that they do compliment each other. I do think though, that I wouldn't have been considered for the job I have at the moment without the degree and also for the job I am about to go for.

[kylewilliamson]

As someone who started my working life at a time when very few people got the chance to go to University & Grammar Schools were the order of the day I have managed to make my way in life with nothing more than an HNC & real-world experience, during which time I have helped train people with 1st Class degrees from Oxford, Cambridge, Durham Universities....

 

Rightly or wrongly I fear there might be a generational gap here. I'm in my early 20's and having applied for a few jobs last year to try and move on, I almost found that due to this government's push for 50% of my generation to go to University, there is a underlining doubt of 'why aren't you good enough to go and do a BSc?'. It's fair to say that the friends of mine that did go are having successful careers where I felt I was earning good money but with no real prospects.

 

However, from a career point of view I now am. I quit work in the summer [after four years] and am now a full time student again. It's certainly spread my wings, I'm loving the experience and I really hope it'll sort out a decent career path for me. However, I've considered it to be a calculated risk.

 

Kyle

[Jiser]

My four years at Uni wasn't a walk in the park whatsoever. It might not have taught me how to do a job (which isn't tbh the requirement of a university) but it did teach me allot.

[mossj]

I think a degree does help you once the jobs you are going for require 10+ years of experience.

 

That said.. I decided to go to work after getting my HNC at university (year one) and finish my degree in my own time...

 

Currently when compared to my friends who carried on studying i'm around £30 - £40K (before taxes) up. I imagine this figure to drop in about 3 - 4 years (when they have some experience, with the degree), but then I will have my degree around then as well (+ the extra 3 years experience)... Will be interesting to see who comes out on top

 

p.s @KyleWilliams, I too am early 20's but managed the move from something with little prospects to something with lots of hope.

 

However all my interviewers asked "Why did you not go to uni/finish your degree", to which my stock response is

I got a taste of what it is like to work in the real world after finding employment as a Maintanance Team Leader, and after enjoying the hard graft and the geniune challenges the workplace presented to me on a daily basis, I decided that I would learn more out of the classroom. I hope to continue my degree in my spare time whilst working as I still see it as a vital part of my personal development

Edited January 21, 2010 by mossj

[synaesthesia]

Everyone is different. A degree/education is only indicative of a person who is able to be taught in a certain manner, and has a vague awareness of the field they've studied in. And even then it varies further - some courses involve real world experience, some are done entirely on theory and candidates are released with a masters degree showing next to no practical ability. Some come out being completely ready for the first steps of a proper career.

Some people like the "freshness" of a graduate as they don't have someone else's habits to undo.

Some people just can't be educated in that way, they may not have the type of mind to sit for hours in lectures or learning skills that they believe have no bearing in the real world. Some of these people could just be lazy, some of them could be far more intelligent and able than anyone holding paperwork showing completion of any level of higher education and be able to show it in the workplace.

 

The important thing at the end of the day, is the candidate, that one person. It's always worth applying for something regardless of the level of qualification they may be asking for. If your sales pitch is good enough and you can do enough to prove how good you are, there's no reason why you won't be just as good or better than someone with a degree in something.

 

Always worth a try. Plus of course, what has anyone got to lose - you don't get a job you didn't have in the first place?

[broc]

Given the diversity of degree subjects open to students these days, for many having a degree is more a measure of their mental prowess than their actual ability to do a job. I have worked with very gifted people (academically) who were poor at doing even the most basic of tasks set them & others who were brilliant at their job but lacked even the most basic of qualifications.... way back in the mists of time when graduates were a rare commodity experience counted for more.... it used to be that O-levels were the requirement, then A-levels, and now degrees.... in some cases now you even need a Masters.....

 

Having a degree should indicate that someone has the ability to learn & retain knowledge, but is does not guarantee they can apply their knowledge, or even that their knowledge is relevant to the job they do/want to do.

 

In an ideal world, the best candidate should be the one who has the best qualifications & relevant experience, the dilema comes when you are presented with a list of candidates who are missing one or the other. Do you take the raw graduate with no experience, or the seasoned campaigner with inferior qualifications? Quite often when you reach this point you end up choosing a candidate based upon personality, how they perform at interview, how you think they will fit in......

 

So, you could argue that qualifications may enable you to get an interview, but experience & personal skills will get you a job.....

Edited January 21, 2010 by broc

[broc]

Rightly or wrongly I fear there might be a generational gap here.

 

I think you are right..... 30-40 years ago graduates were a quite rare commodity, partly because of lack of opportunity & partly because (draws a deep breath here...) the subjects were more restricted & the qualification was harder to achieve then....

 

Given that human intelligence (in terms of evolution) does not measurably increase generation by generation, you simply cannot raise the graduate success rate from say 10% to 50% in one or two generations without either dramatically improving the quality of teaching, dramatically increasing learning skills, or making it easier to get a degree. I don't think university lecturers have improved to that extent nor do I believe people have got smarter at learning so my conclusion is degrees have become easier.... I think the same applies to GCSE & A-level by the way.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I know that people of my generation spent a lot more time working for their degrees than my daughters generation did. My wife (a microbiology graduate) would tell you she worked much harder & longer to get her degree than our daughter (a geography graduate) did, both achieved the same grades, but my daughter spent around 25% the time my wife did studying over the 3 years of their courses and I don't believe either of them is significantly more intelligent than the other.

[HarryMonkey]

It's always worth applying for something regardless of the level of qualification they may be asking for. If your sales pitch is good enough and you can do enough to prove how good you are, there's no reason why you won't be just as good or better than someone with a degree in something.

 

 

Many job specs now are listing a degree as an essential. I emailed about a job recently and despite telling them that I have over 30 years experience in the IT industry, nearly half of that in education, I was told that if I didn't have a degree, not to bother applying as my application would not be considered.

[broc]

Many job specs now are listing a degree as an essential. I emailed about a job recently and despite telling them that I have over 30 years experience in the IT industry, nearly half of that in education, I was told that if I didn't have a degree, not to bother applying as my application would not be considered.

 

You could argue that they are being ageist & breaking the law ..... as the vast majority of workers with 30 years experience do not have degrees.....

 

Look at the following:

 

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/Documents/IS17Age_Discrimination_new_law.pdf

 

What kind of discrimination is unlawful?

 

Indirect discrimination: This means having a policy or practice

which puts people of a certain age at a disadvantage, compared with

other people. For example, a company restricts recruitment to recent

graduates – fewer older people would be able to meet this

requirement.

Edited January 21, 2010 by broc

[Jamo]

I'm just over half way through my degree with the OU Cisco CCNA is part of my Open Degree very much looking forward to finishing it and having the paperwork. I'm weird and just love the challenge of learning new things!

[penfold]

Given that human intelligence (in terms of evolution) does not measurably increase generation by generation, you simply cannot raise the graduate success rate from say 10% to 50% in one or two generations without either dramatically improving the quality of teaching, dramatically increasing learning skills, or making it easier to get a degree. I don't think university lecturers have improved to that extent nor do I believe people have got smarter at learning so my conclusion is degrees have become easier.... I think the same applies to GCSE & A-level by the way.

 

While I dont quite agree with the notion that the level of a degree, GCSE or A-level has become easier, I do think that there is a lot more support/spoon feeding going on than there was even 10-15 years ago. I have worked in both University and Secondary over the last 5 years, and so have been able to see the differences between teachers and the support students and pupils get. I think that there is a varying degree of quality when it comes to teaching and poor teaching can be covered by support for the pupils who are given answers freely instead of searching for answers themselves. The problem I see in this is, what happens to these people when they start working and dont get the answers to the problem given to them?

 

I still believe that having a degree can help get you an interview(especially when HR are shortlisting) but experience and personality will help you get the job.