2x IT Technician - BSF - Kent

[Deaks]

Northgate-is - Careers

 

 

Should I apply? (They just sacked me as NM).

[Quackers]

Northgate-is - Careers

 

 

Should I apply? (They just sacked me as NM).

 

They sacked you ?

 

Did you not do as they asked? or did they just sack everyone ?

 

Maybe we should all apply all 10,000 memebers (or how ever many) and overload them with paperwork....

[Ex-MGSTech]

That's outrageous, you should look at some kind of unfair dismissal proceedings, that job description is for more than just a Technician, the're advertising your job at a lower salary, constructive dismissal maybe?

 

All Schools ICT Staff need to be wary of BSF suppliers looking to sack existing staff (on decent salaries) and replace them with cheaper less experiences ones to increase their profit margins:mad:

 

S

[dwhyte85]

On what grounds was dismissal?

[bossman]

@MGSTech:

 

And what would you do if it was you?

 

There is nothing that can be done as it is all legal and above board as part of the TUPE process which has been verified by the unions.

 

What people are told is yes you can be a part of our organisation but we can and will get rid of you within the 6 weeks grace period because you are paid too much and we can do it because it is the law.

 

What part do we have to be wary of?

 

This is not a volley fired at you personally but i am sick of people giving advice about something which cannot be altered so get used to the fact that it will come to all of us eventually. :-(

[localzuk]

@MGSTech:

 

And what would you do if it was you?

 

There is nothing that can be done as it is all legal and above board as part of the TUPE process which has been verified by the unions.

 

What people are told is yes you can be a part of our organisation but we can and will get rid of you within the 6 weeks grace period because you are paid too much and we can do it because it is the law.

 

What part do we have to be wary of?

 

This is not a volley fired at you personally but i am sick of people giving advice about something which cannot be altered so get used to the fact that it will come to all of us eventually. :-(

 

You're incorrect. The process requires a person be transferred across on the same conditions for 6 months. Unless you fall within a few random categories, ie. the business wouldn't be financially viable if they did it etc...

[Jamman960]

Hopefully the salary is more in line with what businesses would pay rather than schools. BSF may actually work out well for those employed by the the support providers

 

As for the job description being for more than a technician I think its more in line with what businesses would expect from IT staff - in my previous job as an onsite engineer I'd be expected to fix pretty much whatever I encountered whether its a screwed up RAID array or a whiteboard that isn't calibrated properly, I'd be expected to fix it while I was onsite. If I had to call in someone else I really needed a good reason, they'd often be 150+ miles away.

 

With the SLA's imposed on BSF sites I doubt they could afford to employ anyone who couldn't function fully on their own, an engineer from Ramesys told me that the SLA for a desktop hardware fault was around 30 minutes, once the SLA is exceeded the company would be fined.

[russdev]

ok people calm down

 

Before jump in lot more to this and for obvious reason op can't go into. But please be aware before jumping to conclusions about bsf when we are not talking about bsf or the bsf process.

 

As this is where we get Chinese whisper.

 

Russ

[CyberNerd]

On what grounds was dismissal?

 

IIRC they sacked him for using the internet "excessively" - presumably no more/less than any of the other employees in the school, but when working for a company like northgate.....

IIRC Deaks now has a gagging order, meaning that he can't discuss it.

In another thread we speculated that Northgate was looking for excuses to sack employees. It now looks like they are doing it so that they can re-appoint them on their terms, rather than the Tupe terms.

[Guest richard_s]

From what I have heard Northgate are rumoured to be looking to outsource some of the work to local firms using them as sub-contractors and therefore cutting back on the numbers of actual employees they have.

[Jake]

Using the internet excessively??

 

In an IT career? Crikey, what "excessive"?? I'm usually on the internet near constantly during the course of a day. Its kind of a vital technical resource.

[Diello]

Well, we are talking about the BSF process if, as part of BSF, you're getting TUPEd and companies are coming up with any excuse to sack you.

 

Kent schools using the KCN email list should also be aware that Northgate are actively reading the list, so Northgate employees should watch what they say. Pretty sure that's why Deaks got the gagging order from them.

[russdev]

Hi

 

Again you are making some assumptions about something you know only part of the story. As for gaging order this standard practice.

 

So please be very careful I am not saying either way what northgates intentions are as I know bit more to story but not much hence why I am not making a view on it as such.

 

But you are all making big assumptions so please be careful as last thing I want is you lot to get into trouble or op getting into more trouble.

 

Right next job write up for EG on bsf event yesterday which is was very interesting.

 

Russ

[CyberNerd]

maybe northgate themselves would like to offer an explanation

[Guest richard_s]

I'm actually glad that I no longer work in education as I would have fallen into their clutches and everyone knows what a popular person I was

 

Seriously though it makes a mockery of the the right to free speech and expression of personal opinions on not only this site but any public forum.

[russdev]

Should be clear on this eg has not been gagged.

 

NDA after leaving a company are standard to be fair.

 

Russ

[Theblacksheep]

NDA after leaving a company are standard to be fair.

 

Not really, they are more common place, but not standard.

 

I've signed them for projects and taking on jobs, but never leaving.

[CyberNerd]

Should be clear on this eg has not been gagged.

 

NDA after leaving a company are standard to be fair.

 

Russ

 

I think it could quite easily be argued that an NDA is a gagging order.

 

On the same point - why would you sign an NDA after you left a company ? or are Northgate making employees sign NDA when they join (ie not transfering them under the existing terms and conditions, thus not adhering to Tupe ?

[localzuk]

Should be clear on this eg has not been gagged.

 

NDA after leaving a company are standard to be fair.

 

Russ

 

If he'd been TUPEd then how can this have been on his contract?

[Richie1972]

You're incorrect. The process requires a person be transferred across on the same conditions for 6 months. Unless you fall within a few random categories, ie. the business wouldn't be financially viable if they did it etc...

 

 

Not sure where you get the 6 months from - it's supposed to be 12 months IIRC, however, the company you get transferred to can get rid of you after the first day for "technical or economic" reasons.

On the plus side you might get money, training and new toys to play with - if they decide to keep you on... hmm, but would they really keep on NMs when everything is remotely managed?

It still seems to me that we are all going to be losers in this game - not knowing if we'll have jobs from one day to the next - having said that, I'm so "popular" with regards to BSF meetings that I think I'll be the first one kicked out when we get taken over

[dwhyte85]

IIRC they sacked him for using the internet "excessively" - presumably no more/less than any of the other employees in the school, but when working for a company like northgate.....

IIRC Deaks now has a gagging order, meaning that he can't discuss it.

In another thread we speculated that Northgate was looking for excuses to sack employees. It now looks like they are doing it so that they can re-appoint them on their terms, rather than the Tupe terms.

 

Although I don't know the full in's and out's... I am continually checking the Microsoft sites, some hacking sites to check latest threats and basically doing what network managers do... keeping ontop of what's going on in IT... I download ISO's for MVL often... how on earth can they quantify excessive use for a Network Manager!

 

I need to understand what the BSF, Tupe means before I can give any educated response but it seems like you've said a reason to sack someone... that's pretty lame, this is someones life and they've probably given there all whilst at the school - schools were once seen as a 'safe bet' for jobs... i'm wary now, it shouldn't be solely about money!

[Hacksawbob]

BSF bad 4 legs good.

[glensc]

Seems to me a NDA that stops you from giving the reason for not working at your last place of employment would likely fall under the unfair contracts act, as most prospective employers will want that information before considering employing someone.

 

It maybe in an agreement but isn't necessaily legally so, as were many agreement clauses only a few years ago about not going to work for a competiter that were deemed unfair clauses, so might be worth seeking qualified advice if the OP needs to declare the reason to gain further employment.

 

 

I suspect Deaks may have misinterpreted or been led to misinterpret just what his NDA covers and doesn't cover.

Edited May 5, 2009 by glensc
added last paragraph

[Northgate]

I am a representative of Northgate and I am familiar with the Kent BSF programme and the circumstances relating to Mr Deakin's departure from our organisation. Firstly I want to point out that we would not normally want to get involved in such forums as we believe you should be able to converse freely without intrusion. However, in light of a number of the comments made and speculation arising from Mr Deakin's recent posts, I thought it may be useful if I outline the Company's position on these matters.

 

It is regrettable that Mr Deakin thought it was appropriate to post information relating to his dismissal on such a public forum. In any employment relationship there is typically a duty of confidentiality, hence why we requested such information to be withdrawn. In terms of the reasons for the dismissal, in the same way, it would not be appropriate for the Company to divulge any further detailed information; however I stress that you have not been presented with the full facts. To offer reassurance, this case has no relation at all to the fact that Mr Deakin TUPE transferred to Northgate. There is no ulterior motive on our part to dismiss TUPE employees and, as has been stated, replace them with cheaper resource. We do not take decisions to dismiss employees lightly and we have fair processes and procedures to deal with such matters.

 

In relation to TUPE protection, there is no legally defined time frame as such, although people commonly think of a year. From our point of view we take our obligations under the TUPE regulations very seriously and always seek to honour transferring T&Cs. A change to T&Cs would be automatically unfair unless justified for valid ETO reasons. We do not have an agenda of wanting to remove TUPE transfer employees to replace with staff on our own T&Cs, nor do we impose Northgate T&Cs on TUPE transfer staff after a period of time by way of a harmonisation programme. We view the skills and experience of the existing staff as an important factor for the BSF project and look at how we can take advantage of this.

 

One of the features of the Kent BSF programme that we put forward was the move to an interim service ahead of the BSF implementations. The move to BSF involves change in certain areas and the interim service approach allows us to work with employees to understand and manage the change, also looking at how we can develop skills to capitalise on any opportunities that arise. As you may expect, opportunities do arise on such large programmes, and we are keen to progress staff that have the right skills and perform to a high level.

 

By way of example in relation to TUPE staff, in Kent we offered senior positions in the BSF team, Client Delivery Manager and Operations Team Leader, to two of the most able Network Managers at Financial Close. In the following six months, another Network Manager has taken up the post of Technical Baseline Consultant, we have a Senior Technician on secondment in a Network Manager post and a Technician has taken on Senior Technician responsibilities. We are also exploring development paths for roles either as Junior Solution Architects or Education ICT Consultants. We have also progressed other staff into Implementation Engineer roles and another to a Network Manager post.

 

Once again, I apologise for having to intrude on your forum, but hope you find the information helpful and it helps remove some of the speculation.

[Theblacksheep]

maybe northgate themselves would like to offer an explanation

 

The Behemoth is watching.

HR have spent some time on that reply!

 

 

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Edited July 8, 2009 by Theblacksheep