OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I'm in the process of setting up eportal for external access by staff, and later, parents. I've just been struck by a thought: We'll need user CALs as ePortal will be hosted on Server 2008. Is this right? Reading the MS pages on Server 2008 licensing, we need CALs for any users who authenticate with a web site, either through Windows or any other technology - like logging on to ePortal. This could get expensive. The way round it is to host it on Windows Web Server 2008, which doesn't need any CALs. But will ePortal install and run on Windows Web Server? I'm just downloading the trial Web Server edition now to try it. Does anyone know for certain before I spend time on this?
GeorgeFaux Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I think this document answers this. http://www.sercolearning.com/documents/MIS_technicalspecs.pdf Bottom Paragraph 1
OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks, but that's referring to SQL Server CALs, for accessing the database; not the Windows Server CALs, for the ePortal end users. That document gives the minimum ePortal server spec as 'Windows 2000 Server (or higher)', recommended 'Windows 2003 Server (Standard Edition or higher)'. It also says that 'ePortal will need 5 x CALs.', presumably SQL CALs, but doesn't say why only 5, irrespective of the number of users. BTW, I've just installed Eportal on Windows Web Server 2008 and it runs fine.
k-strider Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I thought that IIS connections didn't need CALS... but you did need an SQL Per Processor Licence, for any Internet available DB... what will be more interesting is trying to get the two factor authentication in place, that is fast becoming a requirement by the Govt for sensitive data...
OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 According to the Server 2008 Client Access Licensing page, CALs are needed as the users are authenticating. Every user or device that accesses or uses the Windows Server 2008 server software requires the purchase of a Windows Server 2008 Client Access License (Windows Server CAL) except under the following circumstances: * If access to the instances of server software is only through the Internet without being authenticated or otherwise individually identified by the server software or through any other means * If access is to Windows Web Server 2008 ... As users authenicate with ePortal, they each need a CAL. Someone please prove me wrong!
OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 what will be more interesting is trying to get the two factor authentication in place, that is fast becoming a requirement by the Govt for sensitive data... As for two-factor authentication... The cost is just prohibitave. That'll kill it. The trouble is the govt insist on parents having real time access (I've read somewhere), then insist on expensive security for it. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the external access, and the use of technology like this, but the thought of the expense gives me a cold sweat.
maniac Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 As for two-factor authentication... The cost is just prohibitave. That'll kill it. The trouble is the govt insist on parents having real time access (I've read somewhere), then insist on expensive security for it. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the external access, and the use of technology like this, but the thought of the expense gives me a cold sweat. The best 2 factor authentication system I've come across was where the mobile number of the individual was registered in the software, then when the user authenticated with their username and password it dispatches a text message to said mobile with a pin code, which is then duely entered into the box provided. Not sure if it fufills all the requirements, but it's a damn good idea! Problem is I can't remember where I read about it now! Mike.
michael2k6 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Hi guys, I'm unsure about the Licensing question, but http://www.sercolearning.com/documen...nicalspecs.pdf Is an outdated document which has been replaced. The new document is on the firstline site and also available from support. I had no idean that this document existed and will have at removed at my earliest convenience. Michael Sanderson Technical Engineer Serco Learning
OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Michael, Thanks, but your link's broken! EDIT:- I've just found the latest version. It says:- Windows Server 2003 R2 (32bit) with latest service pack They haven't updated for Server 2008 yet. Did I mention I'd got it running On Web Server 2008? It runs on the Tomcat server, but I'm having trouble getting IIS 7 configured. I've just seen IIS 7 for the first time today and its quite a bit different to IIS 6. Serco haven't released a guide yet. Anyway, all early indications are that it'll run OK. Edited March 26, 2009 by OverWorked added comments about IIS 7
OverWorked Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 The best 2 factor authentication system I've come across was where the mobile number of the individual was registered in the software, then when the user authenticated with their username and password it dispatches a text message to said mobile with a pin code, which is then duely entered into the box provided. Not sure if it fufills all the requirements, but it's a damn good idea! Problem is I can't remember where I read about it now! Mike. That doesn't sound too bad. I was thinking of the number generating key fobs. I know our school gets charged £150 (possibly annually), for ours.
Tallwood_6 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Just buy a server 2008 external connector licence no need to buy cals for each external user only came to £230 when i brought a couple of weeks ago.
john Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 This is sounding confusing, AFAIK you need your Windows Server Licence and your SQL Processor Licence (As its the cheapest way of doing SQL for anything more than a handful of users) and that's it. Your not authenticating against Active Directory of Windows for Serco its authenticating against Serco so its the SQL Licence you need to worry about. I don't have Windows CALs for all my parents that will be using it in Sept, just a Server 2003 license for the box its running on and then the SQL Processor Licence.
Tallwood_6 Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Right ok, just to clarify you will need server 2008 licence, SQL processor licence x2 if you have dual Xeons, user CAL's for people accessing internally and CAL's or and external licence connector if you will have students, teachers and parents accessing eportal externally over IIS and a connection in our case to the resource passwords list for sercos hosted VLE. Pricing and Licensing Explains a little more, prehaps i'm a little anal but at least that covers all the bases.
OverWorked Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 Right ok, just to clarify you will need server 2008 licence, SQL processor licence x2 if you have dual Xeons, user CAL's for people accessing internally and CAL's or and external licence connector if you will have students, teachers and parents accessing eportal externally over IIS and a connection in our case to the resource passwords list for sercos hosted VLE. Pricing and Licensing Explains a little more, prehaps i'm a little anal but at least that covers all the bases. Yep! I haven't looked into the SQL Server licensing in detail yet, but regarding the Windows Server CALs, that's my understanding. BUT... I've just had a 25 minute remote support session with Serco, and, after quite a bit of puzzling, they got ePortal running on IIS 7 on Windows Web Server 2008. So, the issue of Windows Server CALs has gone away. There'll likely be a document for configuring IIS 7.0 for ePortal appearing on the Serco support site soon. When Server 2008 R2 comes out, it'll include IIS 7.5. So off we go again!
Tallwood_6 Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Good to here you've got it all working, i've got them moving facility and eportal onto a server 2008 box with sql 2008 in a couple of weeks. Fingers crossed all will go well.
OverWorked Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 This is sounding confusing, AFAIK you need your Windows Server Licence and your SQL Processor Licence (As its the cheapest way of doing SQL for anything more than a handful of users) and that's it. Your not authenticating against Active Directory of Windows for Serco its authenticating against Serco so its the SQL Licence you need to worry about. I don't have Windows CALs for all my parents that will be using it in Sept, just a Server 2003 license for the box its running on and then the SQL Processor Licence. John, As I read it, any web site requiring users to log on, running on Windows Server 2008 Standard/Enterprise/Datacenter will need user or device CALs or an External Connector license as they're authenticating. It's the 'through any other means', which includes any form of identification, AD or otherwise. ... without being authenticated or otherwise individually identified by the server software or through any other means I'm probably getting too obsessed with this. Anyway, we now know it'll work on Web Server 2008, which doesn't need CALs under any circumstances. So I'm going to put my ePortal on that to avoid any problems. I've still got the SQL Server CALs to sort out, though.
john Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 True who knows lol anyway it will spend more time down than up for outside access with the reliability of the internet at times!
bearer Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Hi Overworked, would you detail me the fix for getting IIS to work on 2008. Serco have spent over an hour woking on this problem. Cheers Paul
OverWorked Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 @Bearer, Do you mean getting ePortal working on IIS7 on Server 2008? It works well, if you know how. Serco publish a guide but there's a crucial point they've missed. You have to give the ISAPI-DLL execute permission on each of the virtual directories. Also, it won't run on 64-bit. Serco spent a couple of hours trying on my server too. Let me know.
michael2k6 Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Hi guys, I've spoken to Beardy and issue resolved. You're right about the bit we've missed, the document is being updated. The 64 bit server requires a 64bit ISAPI and it is dependant upon architecture, AMD or Intel. This isn't publically available to current schools but if you have installed on a 64bit server and need to get it running in IIS PM me. Mic @ Serco
7andY Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Right ok, just to clarify you will need server 2008 licence, SQL processor licence x2 if you have dual Xeons, user CAL's for people accessing internally and CAL's or and external licence connector if you will have students, teachers and parents accessing eportal externally over IIS and a connection in our case to the resource passwords list for sercos hosted VLE. Pricing and Licensing Explains a little more, prehaps i'm a little anal but at least that covers all the bases. SQL 2005 is licensed per Server, regardless of CPUs, a factor I overlooked to my cost... 7&Y
localzuk Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 SQL 2005 is licensed per Server, regardless of CPUs, a factor I overlooked to my cost... 7&Y It can be, but doesn't have to be. Like all Microsoft software, there are an array of licensing methods for it.
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