A car vs money scenario... Please help me make up my mind!

[Patrick]

I got so fed up of paying for cars on finance so I bought a 2011 BMW 320d with 140,000 miles on the clock for around 2.5-3K 2 years ago. I've had to do the usual maintenance, tyres and brake pads, but most cars will need these over a 2-3 year span at some point if you do an average or above average mileage. I was spending £300 a month previously on cars, so buying the shed has now "paid" for itself. I've had to replace a shock absorber but that's about it outside of normal maintenance. Its's now done 191,000 miles and still going. Hoping I'll get it to 200K. It's not perfect, has a slight a oil leak on the gasket which can smoke, but, it works. Every morning it fires up and gets me to work which is all I care about.

[3s-gtech]

I wonder if differences in our age reflect our views! I thought there was a big change in the factory application of sealer to prevent rust, but several decades ago. The idea things got better post 2010 is not in my perception - but perhaps it has? There is a solution though - https://www.autoweb.com/10-best-cars-with-aluminum-frames#:~:text=Photo%20by%20Cadillac-,1)%20Jaguar%20XE,-The%20compact%20Jaguar

 

And I only presume more modern (actually not that modern) fibre materials (glass/carbon/etc.) that are strong and lightweight are still just too expensive. Such technologies have transformed racket sports - e.g. tennis from wood to M40X graphite.

Perhaps. I've bought and worked on stuff that has been pretty rotten - I scrapped a Puma where large parts of the floorpan visible underneath was actually the back of the carpets. Just like 60s/70s BL stuff. It was quite old though. Guy I bought it off thought it could be fixed!

 

I currently have a Rover P6 that is 49 years old, that has less rot in it than many newer cars and I've only had to weld some cosmetics up.

 

Aluminium alloy in the shells help, but any galvanic corrosion can lead to it turning to dust. See Land Rover wings, tubs, door skins and floors for that one.

[MrEprise]

Perhaps. I've bought and worked on stuff that has been pretty rotten - I scrapped a Puma where large parts of the floorpan visible underneath was actually the back of the carpets. Just like 60s/70s BL stuff. It was quite old though. Guy I bought it off thought it could be fixed!

 

Cars can be if you have the time, money and inclination to do it. A friend of mine had inherited his Grandfather's Ford Zodiac Mk4 Executive which had pretty large holes in the floorpan from being sat in a field for the best part of 3 decades. His Dad with oodles of time on his hands eventually fixed it and you'd never really notice where the holes had been as he'd had the replacement panels properly bashed into shape.

[southhamster]

I'm in the same situation with the Stealth Taxi ™ aka Totota Avensis. It's now over 18 years old and although it's only done around 90,00 miles it is having increasing rust and mechanical problems. I don't have a garage space although I've done simple repairs myself. It was great when I was working, as the boot could swallow a server room's worth of kit, an IT Suite including children and a laptop trolley, but I don't really need such a cavernous beast now. The MOT is next month and I reckon it may finally go from advisory rust to hard fail. Paid £3,500 with a trade in 2014 so I've had my money's worth! Kind of looking forward to getting a smaller car.

[3s-gtech]

I'm in the same situation with the Stealth Taxi ™ aka Totota Avensis. It's now over 18 years old and although it's only done around 90,00 miles it is having increasing rust and mechanical problems. I don't have a garage space although I've done simple repairs myself. It was great when I was working, as the boot could swallow a server room's worth of kit, an IT Suite including children and a laptop trolley, but I don't really need such a cavernous beast now. The MOT is next month and I reckon it may finally go from advisory rust to hard fail. Paid £3,500 with a trade in 2014 so I've had my money's worth! Kind of looking forward to getting a smaller car.

 

If you can scrape that through, it’ll sell easily with that mileage. Many years of dull motoring ahead!

[PotNoodleTech]

I'm surprised to hear of so many rust issues. I thought they were the domain of 70's and early 80's cars, like the Datsun Cherry, early Ford Fiesta and what a good friend on mine used to refer to as a driver of one, "see through the floor of a Renault 4". I thought protective measure had largely removed the rust issue, but it appears to be making a comeback. Oh, I should add Alfa Romeo. My brother had several Alfa Sud's. Great cars, but we joked about the remains being the lively flat 4 still running amongst a pill of rust!

 

Your on your own there mate. Rust is still the biggest killer of cars in the UK be it on the body or large expensive bolt on parts like subframes.

 

Advancements in technogy have sadly been nullified by the constant beancounter cost cutting to make thinner steel thinner paint thinner clearcoat etc etc so it's ended up modern steel cars still rust pretty much just the same.

[Ditto]

Your on your own there mate. Rust is still the biggest killer of cars in the UK be it on the body or large expensive bolt on parts like subframes.

 

Advancements in technogy have sadly been nullified by the constant beancounter cost cutting to make thinner steel thinner paint thinner clearcoat etc etc so it's ended up modern steel cars still rust pretty much just the same.

I don't disagree on the bean counters, but I'd be interested to see if others feel similar. Maybe my personal car choices perhaps mean I've been lucky with rust - or maybe unlucky in that something else killed it before rust

 

So, full car history if I can recall -

Hillman Avenger - engine died, but for had some rust

GS Club - flat 4 - sold

MkI GLS Scirocco - my first enjoyable car - sold

MkII Scirocco GX- faster, smoother, not as fun - sold

MkII Scirocco GL - sold

Corrado VR6 - best ever car - write off for scrap due to minor bump to bumper - a travesty in hindsight but bills were starting to grow

Mazda 6 - kids! Engine died

Fiesta Mk6 - still going and eldest son taken over as a new driver

Mazda 6 estate - still going but off road until air compressor fixed

 

I don't recall rust ever coming up on any those on MOTs, but I expect some did, especially early on. I don't think it did on any of the VWs or Mazdas and nothing on the Fiesta. No car was ever bought new.

 

So coming back to the OP. On reflection, I focussed on reducing my mortgage a lot when in my mid to late twenties through to late 30's. I was mortgage free for a while whilst still in my 30's. I managed to run some fun cars without too much expense, the VWs being the best. I probably missed out on some driving fun compared to my peers. Maybe once the kids have cleared uni, I can get a car based on desire over function. So to conclude, yes stick with lowering the mortgage, but maybe there is a compromise on the cars that keeps a little balance of living life today, and not just for the future!

[southhamster]

If you can scrape that through, it’ll sell easily with that mileage. Many years of dull motoring ahead!

 

Yes, it's a bit of a yawnbox and even ULEZ exempt so it would sell well darn sarf. My first cars were all old MGB's /midgets which were great fun to drive but you could almost see the rust growing if you stared hard at them. They were a good way to learn car maintenance, whether you liked it or not, typically on a cold, wet night.

*Warning @mikeprice anecdote coming up* The starter motor failed on the midget and I couldn't afford a recon unit 'til payday, so I got really good at bump starting it by scooting along and jumping in to bump it. Except one time I tripped and it gently ran off the road onto a patch of grass. Luckily no harm done except to my pride, and a couple of laughing blokes helped me get it back on the tarmac.

[mrstrong]

Never really driven anything fast / fun, always wanted an MX5 but from a practical point of view looking now at

maybe a Citroen C1. Mother in law has a 10 year old one and I think its great to drive (prefer it to the golf Mk5 I had)

Also pretty smooth over bumps / pot holes compared to i10. Easy to park, comfy seats, DAB, Bluetooth, only negative

is as its 1.0L got no real power for when you need to overtake a tractor. Is there anything similar with a bit more oomph ?

[3s-gtech]

Never really driven anything fast / fun, always wanted an MX5 but from a practical point of view looking now at

maybe a Citroen C1. Mother in law has a 10 year old one and I think its great to drive (prefer it to the golf Mk5 I had)

Also pretty smooth over bumps / pot holes compared to i10. Easy to park, comfy seats, DAB, Bluetooth, only negative

is as its 1.0L got no real power for when you need to overtake a tractor. Is there anything similar with a bit more oomph ?

 

Yes. VW Up! GTI. Tiny, quick enough. Also see any Abarth 500, Vauxhall Adam S, older Suzuki Swift Sport. You could go older but you’re into emerging classics like the 106 GTi and they’re delicate things.

[robintech]

I've looked at used cars and thought I'd be able to find another used car at 6-8k, 2 years old with little to no mileage, how wrong was I! The cost of new cars is ridiculous, mine by WhatCar valuation is worth around 2k it's a knacker by this point, I was thinking I'd be lucky if I get a grand back for it. As I look for used cars around 2-4 years old with no more than 30k miles on the clock it's starting to creep up to the price of buying a brand new Dacia which my dad has had for 5 years now and hasn't had any problems with.

 

the bottom end of the market seems very overpriced to me , new cars as well, second hand 5 years old seem okish value although out of my budget so I'm stuck in a similar position.

Was almost thinking about leasing for a couple of years as some 24 month contracts are around £2,500 per annum which somehow seems ok for 2 years motoring as its the same as depreciation on a new car but without the buying and selling hassle?

[mrstrong]

a friend has a fiesta 1.0 L turbo and says its great to drive and plenty of poke.

I'm not sure if it's an ecoboost engine though as there seems to be a lot of negative

comments online, similar to puretech

[Olliedawg]

a friend has a fiesta 1.0 L turbo and says its great to drive and plenty of poke.

I'm not sure if it's an ecoboost engine though as there seems to be a lot of negative

comments online, similar to puretech

 

If it has a turbo it will more than likely be a Ecoboost. As long as you keep up with oil changes they are OK.. but they definitely don't have a good reputation.

 

The timing belt deteriorates as it runs in the oil over time, this is what causes the issues

[3s-gtech]

a friend has a fiesta 1.0 L turbo and says its great to drive and plenty of poke.

I'm not sure if it's an ecoboost engine though as there seems to be a lot of negative

comments online, similar to puretech

Avoid. Even if you get one that hasn't been starved of oil due to the cambelt breaking up and blocking the oil pickup; the cost of belt changes is ridiculous, they need doing more frequently, and many garages won't touch them.

[Ditto]

Recently I have been driving a regular mix of my brothers 13 year old Merc E-class, 2.1 diesel estate, Mrs Ditto's 1 year old fully electric Cupra Born v2 and my 11 year old Fiesta 1.6 Titanium which my recently driving test passed.

 

The Merc is huge, comfy, decent poke but noisy tractor of a diesel engine. It can be a pain to park.

The Cupra Born is obviously strong, but I've decide the ride is a little 'rocking-horse' and the interfering modern technology is super annoying. I crashed the infotainment yesterday - it took several minutes to come back to life!

 

As for the Fiesta, I've realised it is the best drive of them all. It has the Zetec engine which is highly regarded and at just shy of 100k miles, apart from bashed alloy wheels, it's a darn good car. If you can get a well maintained one of these, it might meet the mix of performance, usefulness and longevity without massive maintenance bills at not a crazy price.

[PotNoodleTech]

Fords are great as long as their 10 + year old ones - the new wet belt ones are abaoloutly garbage. It's literally built in 3 year obsolecence. Should be illegal.

[AB_IT]

I don't understand why car manufactures can't just cover the underside in plastic trim to prevent a lot of the rust issues. My Civic for example has a very large plastic undertray with a little middle hole to easily service the engine. I rarely clean her and a lot of the metal thats underneath the plastic looks almost new, no rust or concerns. The bit they didn't cover in plastic trim is the exhaust and rear axle. I bet if they did it would be fine. Plastic is also incredibly cheap so I'm unsure as to the reasoning behind not covering these components? Maybe someone with more understanding could tell me why.

 

Also why are cars still using cambelts? I had one on my Clio years back and it was an expensive job getting it changed out and things. My Civic has a cam chain and though I know some are noisy mine certainly isn't and runs really quiet. Why aren't cars fitted with chains instead?

 

My one other concern at the moment is the V-Belt that drives the alternator, water pump etc.. this has never been replaced or changed in it's life however it's probably due one. I'm just hoping my girl keeps going, cars don't excite me like they used to when I was a kid.

 

I actually purchased an 2020 Aprilia SR50 scooter about 3 years back and rebuilt the entire engine. The whole engine was great fun to build in my spare time and the cost came to around £700 with branded good quality parts, considering my rear axle on my car has cost £750 it seems like a steal. It's so much fun and takes me back to being young again, also the 80+ mpg is a win especially when I get paid 45p per mile at work. It's one of the last scooters which was a 2 stroke engine so it can go pretty fast, I know they're bad for the environment but since it's engine is 0.05L I can't imagine how bad it really is in comparison to a car, the EU made it to difficult with Euro 5 emissions for manufacturers to still produce 2 strokes and so that time has ended which is a shame. When it does go wrong parts are so cheap for it that I hardly flinch recently purchased a new carb for it at the expensive cost of £11.99 new, I mean that's a Large Costa Coffee. I don't drive it in the rain/winter however so this is probably what's keeping it in good nick!

[3s-gtech]

I can try to answer a couple of those.

 

Some cars do have a larger amount of plastic underneath now. This varies by manufacturer. It’s not easy to cover the rear suspension due to its independence from the main bodyshell, in the same way that the front wishbones/control arms are exposed.

 

Modern exhausts get very, very hot due to the catalytic converters and particulate filters. They can’t be shielded with plastic.

 

Cost is also a factor. Engineering and attaching undertrays which most owners won’t notice is an extra expense which won’t sell cars.

 

Sometimes, plastic undertrays can do more harm, as they trap dirt and salt and the panels behind them rot away. This is common enough in countries which use salt on the roads!

 

Cambelts vs chains - belts are much, much cheaper to produce and service. Chains require a great deal more engineering, cost a lot more to fix, and are less refined. Belts work okay if changed on time. There are alternatives like gears (noise, expense) and pushrods (rattly, lower engine speeds, servicing).

[mrstrong]

Been looking at some local dealers 2nd hand cars, cheapest seem to be around 8 grand.

So was thinking of putting say £5000 on a 0% credit card and £3000 cash, seems

better option than PCP / etc (https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/loans/personal-contract-purchase/)

but looks like most dealers won't accept credit cards other than for a small deposit

Why is that ? e.g. is it just that they want you to take their finance ?

[PotNoodleTech]

Yeh they just want you to take out finance so they can make commission.

 

My dad wanted to buy a skoda cash when he retired and they wouldnt let him spend his cash as they were obsessed with trying to get him to sign a finance agreement. Crazy.

 

Went 1 mile down the road and BMW were happy to take the cash.

[Andrew_C]

I suspect they don't like the protection you get with credit cards...

[36Degrees]

most dealers won't accept credit cards other than for a small deposit

Why is that ? e.g. is it just that they want you to take their finance ?

 

Is possibly also related to the fees their bank charges for credit card transactions. (AFAIK allowing you to pay the deposit by credit card means you are still covered for the entire purchase under the consumer credit act)

 

My last car purchase was by credit card deposit and then a bank transfer, the bulk of which was after finding a 0% credit card that allowed transfers to your bank account for the same balance transfer fee.

[denzal2k4]

Can I throw a curveball in, for around what you would pay for the Dacia you could get this https://www.motor4u.com/vehicle-details/used-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-saloon-4dr-electric-auto-rwd-241-bhp-saloon-automatic-electric-for-sale-in-sussex-u10314/

 

Tesla Model 3, 80k on the clock, I believe they come with 8 year/ 120k Battery and motor warranty. Maybe Tesla is a dubious option in the current climate but you can also get similar Polestars for the same kind of budget, people have to remember high mileage is different for electric cars, no cambelt, head gaskets etc to worry about, its a motor and a battery.

 

Another less pretty option whcih I curreently drive and have 4 years and 50k miles under the belt and no issues, MG5 you can grab a 2021 10k miles for £13,000, or the mg4 smaller option, great car, everyone has them written off as cheap and chinese, which they are but the quality and reliability is excellent. Second hand prices for electric make them worth a second look.

[Omega_NL]

I'm not really the best person to answer this given the car I'm currently running...

I may be stating the obvious but try and search for an economical car, only 3 - 5 years old from a reputable brand with a history of good reliability and inexpensive parts. Some of these modern ICE cars can get well over 60mpg on motorways and you need not spend any more than £9k with not a ton of miles on it.

[sigma]

I'm not really the best person to answer this given the car I'm currently running...

I may be stating the obvious but try and search for an economical car, only 3 - 5 years old from a reputable brand with a history of good reliability and inexpensive parts. Some of these modern ICE cars can get well over 60mpg on motorways and you need not spend any more than £9k with not a ton of miles on it.

 

We did similar for our daughter. A Toyota Yaris after "a friend" reversed into the Peugeot 206 she was driving (that had previously been my Dad's) and wrote it off.

 

It all comes down to "cost per mile"

 

Outlay, insurance, servicing, fuel economy, probable mileage and what you might expect to get back at the end.

 

When you do the sums, its not always obvious when comparing cars what the overall best value will be.