Am I over reacting?

[IT_CoffeeNeeded]

Hi All,

 

Where I work, I have been repeatedly raising the importance of needing to purchase new computers to be ready for when Windows 10 becomes EOL. (Been raising this since the initial announcement)

Due to lack of investment, we are not in a position to be fully Windows 11 compatible by Windows 10 EOL.

Due to this, the SLT approached a 3rd Party IT Consultant instead of our current MSP a few years ago to gauge the current position of IT to see if I was over reacting. (This is a whole other story which I shall not bore you with)

The recent advice given from this IT consultant has me concerned as my employer is readily happily to follow his advice, which has gone against my own.

His advice regarding windows 10, which was said during a meeting with the leadership team.

 

• We should manipulate the registry settings on the non windows 11 compatible machines, to install Windows 11 onto them. (The computers in question are 12+ years old)
  
• Purchasing the Windows 10 extended licences for the security updates is a waste of money. And the risk of a virus/cyber attack is low so its worth the risk to save money.
  

 

I voiced my concerns regarding the above, but the feedback is that I am over reacting and need to work with them on these points (There is many more points and suggestions raised but I don't wish for this post to become an essay)

 

Any input would be appreciated.

[supportman]

Microsoft will no doubt delay the end of life at some point closer, but your not really over reacting.

 

Basically just tell SLT you won't be able to pass the Cyber Essentials if you use the registry key hack (which I heard may be unsupported soon).

 

The schools funding is reliant on cyber essentials so its an easy decision for SLT

[synaesthesia]

Agreed with the above - the "hack" removal has been well advertised recently, and even if it doesn't happen, it could happen at any point in the future with little to no notice, possibly leaving you in quite serious trouble going forward. If you've got an EES agreement with microsoft you could potentially extend Windows 10 support for around a pound a machine which might buy you time.

[Olliedawg]

What sort of IT consultant recommends bodging windows 11 installs... on 12 year old hardware..

 

The ESU licences are dirt cheap for edu, they will buy you more time

 

I'm in a similar boat, few IT rooms still to do & no money

[PotNoodleTech]

Don't worry about it - just email them so theres a paper trail saying the consultunt you hired is completely unprofessional and is going against the advice of 1) Microsoft, 2) your local authority, and 3) evey cyber security audit in the land, and the IT will go to the dogs trying to run win 11 on 12 year old PCs - and sit back and wait for it to happen. You can't do magic and by the look of it you can't educate stupid.

[chazzy2501]

I bought the cheapest i3 8th & 9th HP desktops reconditioned I could get. to replace approx 90 2nd,3rd and 4th gen i5 PCs. over the last 2 years. (as these were out of cycle upgrades)

 

got them in lots of 30 for around £100 each. They have the TPM 2.0 4 cores and 8/256..

 

an example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-ProDesk-4CZ76ET-Desktop-Processor/dp/B08TT5L692?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1KBSQII0Y2C1B&gQT=2

[mavhc]

They can afford you, plus an MSP, but not £20/year for a replacement desktop computer? Seems like they're useless at finance and you should find a new job

[DalekSec]

Create a risk register, list in said register all the issues that will may come from not updating.

 

Show to relevant people, ask them for budget to upgrade. If they say no get it in a written letter from them saying they accept the risks.

 

If shit then hits the fan you have proof that you asked for XYZ and they said no, protect your own back first!

[rossibIT]

I feel for you. I think your doing the right thing with your concerns but maybe going a different way might be able to prove your point more.

 

1, Is the only reason that your not on Windows 11 is because of the computers not being compatible? If it is ready to go then just start deploying to some staff members.

2, Is there any member of SLT that shares your concern? If you have 1 on your side you could plan to put one of your computer rooms onto Windows 11 then you could monitor any issues and say the words 'I told you so' when this is not working as quickly as expected.

 

The more evidence you have the stronger your case will be for investment.

Regards

Ross

 

Regardless if Windows 10 is coming to the EOL or they delay it you are not wanting to spend money for extra support when you could be using that money to buy new devices.

[Lxshm]

why don't use LTSC edition? much better and less cluttered than 10 or 11 Edited February 7, 2025 by Lxshm

[Cazab]

They can afford you, plus an MSP, but not £20/year for a replacement desktop computer? Seems like they're useless at finance and you should find a new job

Is that how much leasing costs?

[Chris_Cook]

The bigger problem is the 12 year old PCs. We're in the same boat in that regard.

 

I can't imagine your login times are much better than ours on such old hardware. Maybe there is an argument from lost lesson time? Do your current PCs allow you to meet the schools requirements to start a lesson and take a register in a reasonable time? I think its daft as a tax payer that we are paying for so many people to sit waiting for slow computers to work.

 

Are you in a position to put ChromeOS on the PCs? Do you still have windows software that you need to run?

[mikes]

I bought the cheapest i3 8th & 9th HP desktops reconditioned I could get. to replace approx 90 2nd,3rd and 4th gen i5 PCs. over the last 2 years. (as these were out of cycle upgrades)

 

got them in lots of 30 for around £100 each. They have the TPM 2.0 4 cores and 8/256..

 

an example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-ProDesk-4CZ76ET-Desktop-Processor/dp/B08TT5L692?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1KBSQII0Y2C1B&gQT=2

 

 

That's what we did when we needed a batch of 5 computers - we bought some Lenovo Refurbed Tiny PC's off Amazon for around £95 - they are only 2 or 3 years old! Core i5, wireless, SSD, and they run Win 11 just fine!

 

We are upgrading to Windows 11 over the next few months - trial room in half term - our main problem is we still use DirectAccess for our VPN and Windows 11 Education does not support that - so we have to either buy Enterprise licenses for our laptops or move onto AlwaysOnVPN.

 

And yes about logon times - it must be awful with 12 year old kit - we have about 3 computers that don't support Win 11 still in use that we'll be binning - they still use HDD's and are a DOG to use - 15 min logons - I don't know how the staff put up with them - I actually offered them new stations but as every new build I do now is Win 11 - they wanted to stay with their old kit until summer!

Edited February 7, 2025 by mikes

[Dan2025]

They can afford you, plus an MSP, but not £20/year for a replacement desktop computer? Seems like they're useless at finance and you should find a new job

 

 

Don't forget the dodgy consultant, I doubt he was cheap either!

[mavhc]

Is that how much leasing costs?

 

I was just going with a £100 computer over 5 years

[Lxshm]

hmmm some schools probably give for free to recycle companies' 7th and 8th gen already or more so this summer, also windows 11 24h2 runs ok on 6th gen with 8gb ram

[Ditto]

@ICTDirect_Dave, (other suppliers are available ) what's going on?! All these people buying on amazon!

 

More seriously though, what do you have to meet the situation of a minimal budget but the need to be Windows 11 compatible. On the wider topic of Microsoft strategy, I have a thread running about the e-waste mountain that's coming. Do comment at https://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-11/241272-windows-11-e-waste-mountian-year.html - it would be good to hear from the seller side of how it's impacting business.

[IT_CoffeeNeeded]

As my name suggests I started this post and went for a coffee

Thanks for all the responses so far! Its great for my own mental state that I wasn’t overreacting.

 

Going to try and respond to all posts at the same time…..

 

They are currently against purchasing the ESU despite it being £1 per licence for the first year, the advice by the consultant is running windows 10 without updates is a minimal risk and a risk worth taking to save some ££ (we are only talking at about £250)

 

I have kept as much of a paper trail as possible to cover myself. The school love to do things verbally to avoid paper trails, and generally ignore emails I send outlining concerns.

 

We have been given permission to start purchasing cheap machines (£100-£180 each) to replace older machines but they prefer to do this in batches of 10-20….. each year…… starting this coming financial year……

On average our budget since 2018 has been £60K a year. This is to cover all costs in IT including MS licences, ISP, AV etc etc our finance team is definitely interesting to work with.

 

Majority of our PCs are not compatible with Windows 11 due to the age (12 years+ is some of the more updated ones! Students regularly complain about the login times etc.

 

We do have some SLT on our side however there is quite a lot of politics going on at the moment which means they are not wanting to rock the boat so to speak. There is a connection between the 3rd party consultant and someone higher up which makes things more difficult.

 

I don't think we are in feasible position to put Chrome OS onto machines as all our software and network is Microsoft based.

[Olliedawg]

why don't use LTSC edition? much better and less cluttered than 10 or 11

 

LTSC is an option but depends on their needs. Various Microsoft applications won't be supported on LTSC after Windows 10 EOL. (365 apps and Teams to name a few)

[TheHyperTechie]

ChromeOS Flex? It would make them compliant, but again - there is the cost of £30 per license to manage them.

[dmj]

 

I don't think we are in feasible position to put Chrome OS onto machines as all our software and network is Microsoft based.

 

AKA: We went for the most expensive option and can't afford to maintain it because of all the hidden costs.

[enbiggen]

They are currently against purchasing the ESU despite it being £1 per licence for the first year, the advice by the consultant is running windows 10 without updates is a minimal risk and a risk worth taking to save some ££ (we are only talking at about £250).

You have my sympathies - we're getting refurbs for some of our pupil machines (already have new machines for staff) but we're trying to find out information about the ESU and getting no-where, as the people we get our licences from say there's only pricing for Higher Education at the moment.

[Koldov]

The schools funding is reliant on cyber essentials so its an easy decision for SLT

 

Wait, what?!

 

As for the OP...

 

There is no way any decent IT consultant should be advising registry hacks or stating no security updates is 'minimal risk', so you're certainly not over reacting to that.

 

But they're probably just telling them what they want to hear and being led by them saying they really can't afford new machines, so offering them unsupported alternatives (that's not 'professional' advice, which makes sense as you say, they're on more than just professional terms with certain members of the SLT).

 

Good call on employing an IT consultant, whilst already employing an IT professional and an MSP whose recommendations they are ignoring...

 

Apart from getting out of there where you are clearly undervalued...

 

Options (which you've already posted replies to... sorry went to get a coffee mid post)?

 

Go LTSC (Teams on the web and local installs of Office if you have OVS-ES).

Make the case for ESU (for security)

Get it in writing that you are being forced to use 'hacks' to run an OS on unsupported hardware and agree to support it on a best effort basis.

If they are willing to stretch to £180 per machine, you might be able to replace some x2 @ c£90 (like @mikes post about the "Lenovo Refurbed Tiny PC's off Amazon for around £95")

 

We too have a suite of 12 year old machines (on LTSC) and boot up times (from cold) are roughly 20s and 40s to log in (I have upgraded them over the years with SSD, more RAM and GFX card).

Edited February 7, 2025 by Koldov

[ICTDirect_Dave]

@ICTDirect_Dave, (other suppliers are available ) what's going on?! All these people buying on amazon!

I know, right?

Come to me, I'll find you cheapy cheap i3's if that's what you need.

 

Anything to keep some money out of Bezos' pockets!

Edited February 7, 2025 by ICTDirect_Dave

[jmak]

It's the kind of scenario that would make me want to write to the local paper, your MP, Ofsted, Private Eye. I would copy in the chair of governors for courtesy - if they understand their responsibilities, they should make it a resigning matter.

 

But in the end I'd probably just leave. You're wasting your time and talent. The kids don't deserve it, but leadership deserve for it all to go massively wrong if they're that incompetent.