Hidden costs when moving MIS

[Aftab_Ahmed]

Dear All

Have any of you come across any additional costs when looking at other MIS systems. For example a cashless catering company wanted an additional £1K to map data which I think is crazy given the costs paid already.

Just wondered if any others have experienced anything similar.

[LeMarchand]

I've heard you need to be diligent with your procurement procedure if you don't want to get sued...

[pete]

Dear All

Have any of you come across any additional costs when looking at other MIS systems. For example a cashless catering company wanted an additional £1K to map data which I think is crazy given the costs paid already.

Just wondered if any others have experienced anything similar.

 

Our provider charged £250 for the cashless migration and I wouldn't expect them to do it for free.

 

It's not in scope as part of the day-to-day support contract and it potentially ties a tech up for half a day, removing them from use by other customers.

 

Plus I don't have to be on the phone listening to ParentPay and/or ParentMail finger-pointing at anyone but themselves - the cashless provider handles it.

Edited December 9, 2024 by pete

[mavhc]

step 1: don't automatic your processes, step 2: charge the customer because it takes ages to do it manually, step 3: profit

[synaesthesia]

Document management service migration doesn't seem to be covered by Bromcom at least, so usually needs something like Salamander to deal with, that's £500 off the bat.

And the less said about Cunninghams and their frankly scandalous £1000 for a 10 minute job, the better. They need stringing up.

[psydii]

step 1: automate the process (but don't let your customers know), step 2: charge the customer because it takes ages to do it manually, step 3: MOAR profit

FTFY.

 

Although, typing in those 'corrections' leaves me conflicted.

[psydii]

Document management service migration doesn't seem to be covered by Bromcom at least, so usually needs something like Salamander to deal with, that's £500 off the bat.

And the less said about Cunninghams and their frankly scandalous £1000 for a 10 minute job, the better. They need stringing up.

 

If you are just needing to dump the attached documents to some folders, RecordLink eXporter cost way less. It is well worth looking at if you still have SIMS and have large enough school that sending student files is a frequent activity. It saves us several hours a week.

 

Recordlink - Home

[synaesthesia]

If you are just needing to dump the attached documents to some folders, RecordLink eXporter cost way less. It is well worth looking at if you still have SIMS and have large enough school that sending student files is a frequent activity. It saves us several hours a week.

 

Recordlink - Home

 

Ooooh that's interesting, thank you!

[Aftab_Ahmed]

Thats Recordlink seems really good. Want aware of that and may save cost, time and effort

[MYK-IT]

In relation to (extracting / migrating) existing SIMS Documents and with some mentioning Record Link (or SalamanderSoft) to do this etc, is this still the case for Arbor? Only as while researching, Arbor state that GroupCall would do this (on their behalf) as technically Arbor are not approved ESS Technical Integrators; whereas GroupCall are.

[Aftab_Ahmed]

It does beg the question when moving to a new MIS which is fully integrated - what those true costs are - as yes on one hand benefits of moving outweigh on-premise - but do you see an actual ROI in year 2 or 3 ?

[dmj]

There's also a hidden saving with web based MIS in that it unlocks a school from local apps: freeing up tech time, (windows) licencing costs and allowing older or cheaper hardware.

[kevin_lane]

Document management service migration doesn't seem to be covered by Bromcom at least, so usually needs something like Salamander to deal with, that's £500 off the bat.

And the less said about Cunninghams and their frankly scandalous £1000 for a 10 minute job, the better. They need stringing up.

 

Ain’t that the truth scandalous it is

[BKGarry]

Your Timetabling Software needs to be factored in.

 

Also while Xporter and Wonder will swap for free etc, some of the other apps may require payment for migration, or worse we had to manually merge students in one system, but that was them making sure that the migration did not wipe out a student's history within the application.

[MYK-IT]

Just to update / add to the list. Tali Pebble, although synced via Groupcall Xporter are charging £90.00 to change MIS.

[Bromcom_John]

On 12/10/2024 at 10:45 AM, synaesthesia said:

 

Ooooh that's interesting, thank you!

and to add to that, the only thing you need to do in order to then get the files in (assuming us) is to ensure that the naming convention includes the student Admission Number or UPN. The import process (under my documents in the user profille to right of the page) will then match on those and assign in the right place.

Edited March 20, 2025 by Bromcom_John

[localzuk]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:37 PM, LeMarchand said:

I've heard you need to be diligent with your procurement procedure if you don't want to get sued...

Best method for this? Use a framework. No extra costs from the MIS providers with something like G Cloud. As its all listed right there up front.

[5nowman]

On 18/12/2024 at 07:25, dmj said:

There's also a hidden saving with web based MIS in that it unlocks a school from local apps: freeing up tech time, (windows) licencing costs and allowing older or cheaper hardware.

 

Hi, This is an interesting topic as I have found... cloud MIS costs more annually and in the end local server versions work out cheaper in the long run.

 

I won't mention companies but one is charging an extra over £700 a year extra plus a certain amount per pupil.

 

That is over £900 a year, over 5 years £4500 alone.

 

On top you still need a form of a server to store admin files, pupil files, staff files.

Databases for say door entry systems. So you still need a server in a form. All these add up and in the end (IMHO) I am finding it cheaper to not go cloud.

 

Are there any other views on this?

[snagrat]

8 hours ago, 5nowman said:

 

Hi, This is an interesting topic as I have found... cloud MIS costs more annually and in the end local server versions work out cheaper in the long run.

 

I won't mention companies but one is charging an extra over £700 a year extra plus a certain amount per pupil.

 

That is over £900 a year, over 5 years £4500 alone.

 

On top you still need a form of a server to store admin files, pupil files, staff files.

Databases for say door entry systems. So you still need a server in a form. All these add up and in the end (IMHO) I am finding it cheaper to not go cloud.

 

Are there any other views on this?

All these files could go into cloud storage solutions such as 365 or Google.

 

You don’t need a server for door systems. A normal PC would run it fine or look at cloud servers as well. All depends what other roles you are expecting servers to do and if you have any others anyway

 

 

[PotNoodleTech]

58 minutes ago, snagrat said:

You don’t need a server for door systems. A normal PC would run it fine

 

 

 

Eh?  So your using the PC as a server like we used to do in the bad old days before we all decided that was a really bad idea (unreliable, less secure, no redundnacy, etc)

 

So what your saying is you do need a server?

[localzuk]

10 hours ago, 5nowman said:

 

Hi, This is an interesting topic as I have found... cloud MIS costs more annually and in the end local server versions work out cheaper in the long run.

 

I won't mention companies but one is charging an extra over £700 a year extra plus a certain amount per pupil.

 

That is over £900 a year, over 5 years £4500 alone.

 

You should name names, as that seems extremely odd. The big player in onsite MIS charges considerably more than any of the cloud MIS's from what I saw.

 

Quote

On top you still need a form of a server to store admin files, pupil files, staff files.

Databases for say door entry systems. So you still need a server in a form. All these add up and in the end (IMHO) I am finding it cheaper to not go cloud.

 

Are there any other views on this?

We don't store any of those files onsite. They are all in a cloud solution, which the 2 main providers offer for free (Microsoft 365 and Google Workspace). Generally though, yes, you need some form of server onsite due to needing infrastructure at a minimum. But when you buy your servers you simply size them for the task in hand.

 

Hosting an MIS onsite is not just a case of having it on a server you already own. The costs of running it onsite are considerable in terms of maintenance and licensing (eg. paying for an SQL Server license for the database). Do a proper TCO analysis, and the outcome very quickly swings away from onsite.

[5nowman]

5 hours ago, localzuk said:

 

You should name names, as that seems extremely odd. The big player in onsite MIS charges considerably more than any of the cloud MIS's from what I saw.

 

We don't store any of those files onsite. They are all in a cloud solution, which the 2 main providers offer for free (Microsoft 365 and Google Workspace). Generally though, yes, you need some form of server onsite due to needing infrastructure at a minimum. But when you buy your servers you simply size them for the task in hand.

 

Hosting an MIS onsite is not just a case of having it on a server you already own. The costs of running it onsite are considerable in terms of maintenance and licensing (eg. paying for an SQL Server license for the database). Do a proper TCO analysis, and the outcome very quickly swings away from onsite.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. SIMS runs on the free version of SQL no?

Wonde needs a dedicated machine.

door entry systems that link to net2 need a local version of software installed. 

Ideally running on a server

Windows AD if running locally - inc. Group policies etc.

server file storage.

 

Would it not become more expensive to have all cloud AND server of some kind locally instead of a local server more beefed up?

This is a curious post not like an argument or anything as I am open to cloud if cost justifies it

 

5nowman

[BKGarry]

For SIMS it depends on the size of your Database, most secondaries require full SQL licensing due to it's size.

 

Wonde does not need a dedicated machine if you have a cloud based MIS

[localzuk]

13 minutes ago, 5nowman said:

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. SIMS runs on the free version of SQL no?

Wonde needs a dedicated machine.

door entry systems that link to net2 need a local version of software installed. 

Ideally running on a server

Windows AD if running locally - inc. Group policies etc.

server file storage.

 

Would it not become more expensive to have all cloud AND server of some kind locally instead of a local server more beefed up?

This is a curious post not like an argument or anything as I am open to cloud if cost justifies it

 

5nowman

Only the smallest of schools would have SIMS run on the free version.

Wonde doesn't require a dedicated machine if you're running a cloud MIS.

Net2 would need some sort of server, sure, but it can work in the cloud if you have a VPN link set up (just like any other server that can use a VPN)

AD is not a necessity these days - we only have it for ease of certain things. We could theoretically eliminate it entirely, and manage all our identity needs in Entra ID. None of our client devices are in it any more, and users sign in using Entra ID.

File storage? We only have some here for our Mac suite - nothing else is hosted for storage onsite.

 

And if you're following digital standards in education, you'd not just have "a" server - you'd have at least 2, with failover. So, immediately, your pricing is going up.

 

Your points only really make sense in the case of tiny schools tbh.

[Chris_Cook]

There's also the costs of having a DB + Server admin as well as an MIS expert on staff/support contract. Its much better to let the experts run it, and figure out how to make it fast.

 

Also, how many on-site MIS support 2fa and modern levels of security? The costs and risks associated with cyber security are also there as well.

 

Net2 will work mostly offline unless you are doing any triggers or door openings over the network. As long as the host is secure and properly backed up, then it doesn't necessarily need a full on server. Plus there are other options for hosting VMs these days like NAS boxes, cloud, etc. Some of the more modern systems like the unifi access could run their controller on the same system as the network controller.