Google and Microsoft Split

[bjohnny42]

Hi All, I've been at a few conferences lately with speakers suggesting that you should choose "either" Google or Microsoft in your institution / mat and stick with it. My take of this really is they are saying "Choose microsoft" as if your organisation talks to anyone else or sends anything anywhere they tend to need a microsoft format in some form or other.

 

We work in a hybrid way but are thinking about changing this split, hence this post.

 

Currently :- 3-18

• We have given departments complete autonomy on choosing the best tools for their department. This has led to a bit of a mixed economy for pupils, so we are looking to guide more.
  
• All Staff have a Chromebook and access any microsoft services via a remote sessions and remote working.
  
• Some Teaching Staff have a Windows PC on their desk at the front of classroom or, 3-11 and Maths (Promethean) , DT (Sketchup, 2D Design), Music (Sibelius),Art (Photoshop)
  
• USB-c Dock and use their Chromebook if not above for all other departments.
  
• Office Only staff have a Windows PC for their day to day job. (SIMS Finance and HR all spit out Microsoft based files for working on)
  
• Email GMail
  
• 3-11 Pupils can access a PC or Chromebook or iPad depending on the task at hand and age of the pupil.
  
• 11-18 Pupils - 1-1 Chromebook
  
• Post 16 Pupils 1-1 Chromebook and BYOD option
  
• MACs for Music Production. (Garage Band and Logic)
  
• We have a VLE for "curriculum resource" and Intranet style functions.
  

 

Google - Curriculum Facing resources and contact with pupils. Anyone who has asked can have a "Google Shared Drive" so is used for Management and

Microsoft - Back office functions etc. Windows on site for shared drives, though we have moved home drives to OneDrive.

 

The migration away from "Windows Shared Drives" to the next cloud based iteration is where we are thinking where do we draw the line for clarity? Along with many others the reason is cost reduction and improved remote access to resources. (To a large extent we will be able to remove our remote desktop solution). Streamlined ways of working with Power Automate or Google Apps Script

 

How do you split and guide staff on what to use where, and where is the split?

Do we jump to more google for the online services OR fire up teams and sharepoint?

We could say all T&L is google and Back office is Microsoft, but what about reports on pupil performance? Is that "Google or Microsoft"?

 

Just thinking about what others do and how do you do it? Where is your split?

 

I'm not imagining a future where we are all one or the other as I think that does close the door on great functions either side.

 

John

[Michael]

I would say they're wrong. Many schools for example are using Microsoft Windows, but use Google for internet searches.

 

Even if you did hypothetically go all in with Microsoft, your end users are most likely using an Android device, using the Outlook App or Apple, again using the Outlook App as a common example.

 

If anything, sticking with one or the other is a lot harder than it sounds.

[PotNoodleTech]

If you've got 1:1 chromebooks and already use google heavily then google is all you need.

 

Weve had both since 2014 but nowadays we could easily drop office365 completeley and do everything in google.

[TheHyperTechie]

If you've got 1:1 chromebooks and already use google heavily then google is all you need.

 

Weve had both since 2014 but nowadays we could easily drop office365 completeley and do everything in google.

 

Agree with this 100%. You don't need to have a split - quite frankly I get frustrated with the whole "You need to move your school to Microsoft and use Intune and Office 365". They don't even see Google Workspace as an option. Therefore schools only see a single solution.

 

I don't think people understand the power of Google Workspace in schools until they have seen it in practice.

Edited November 22, 2024 by HyperTech

[jthompson]

Whatever headaches running both might create, I should think they're outweighed by being able to use the strengths of each over the other (Chrome OS, Classroom, Apps Script and Gmail spam filtering on the Google side vs external contacts feeling more comfortable being sent a Word doc or Teams invitation on the M365 side*).

 

* admittedly, I'm selling M365 a bit short there, but you get the point.

[paulkerton]

I wish I could be surprised by the lack of thinking in this sector which leads to continual monopoly situations... I really wish I could.

[mikes]

yeah there seems to be a lot of "Thou Must" orthodoxy and doing anything else is heresy...

 

That said we are a split school mostly due to entropy I guess, circa ~2015 - 2017? the DT department started experimenting with Google while as a school we were all MS (AD and filesystems). While the IT dept started playing with Office 365. All I did was the initial setup (e.g. setting up AD sync, SSO etc) and left them to it. Over time usage of both expanded a lot (move to o365 and a lot more use of Classroom etc) and we've ended up split.

 

It can cause confusion esp. with new students/teachers, essentially having 2 accounts to 2 separate systems that kind of overlap but not really. But overall it's not a bad thing, we get cheap Chromebooks from the authority, and surely it's better students learn 2 systems so they are not blind and confused when they start work and their workplace has a different system again e.g. OSX? One thing I'd look to do if people weren't already used to how we do it now, is to consolidate the logins. But getting rid of one half just because?

[DavR]

Obviously, anyone in a public facing position from either Google or Microsoft is going to be thoroughly steeped in their employers ecosystem, so that's going to affect their recommendations. And I'm sure, if we were starting from scratch, many of us would try and choose one ecosystem and make a go of it within that. It figures that it's Microsoft pushing the 'choose one and go with it' line, though, as they're the old market leaders forever losing ground. When I've met Google reps they've been a little more prosaic, and happy to show you how to integrate the best of both on Google Workspace.

 

For us, the ecosystem divide fell naturally on a Staff / Students, Microsoft / Google respectively, divide. This has been led by the simple fact that we've been buying Chromebooks for students based on cost, and Windows desktops for staff based on compatibility with existing software and practices. Staff are free to use Google Workspace if they like, although email is in MS O365 only, so most tend to stay in Microsoft, unless they're setting work for the kids. And we do still have a login for the kids for the Windows network, although in practical terms for them, there's only a handful of workstations left where they can use it.

 

I keep meaning to rethink and improve our authentication model, to try and get one login for both, but that's stalled until I get time. Otherwise we manage pretty well spread between the two. And then there's the iPads too, of course....

[Areku]

Ok, we are a school that were onsite microsoft 100% (2019) we moved over to google workspace, all our cloud services Google based. We have this year taken the view that only "One" solution does not fit us. So we are moving to a hybid of services, picking the service from each platform which suites us better... (Classroom Vs Teams... Exchange Vs gMail... Sharepoint Vs Shared Drives).

 

As we are using our Onsite AD as the source of all our... Syncrinizations most account details end up being the same, passwords certainly do.

 

It too is our intention to keep the students on Google, (bar email accounts), as for them its more suited. Staff will end up using Mircrosoft more.

[3s-gtech]

Hwb uses both rather deliberately, and that's across the whole of Wales. If you want an example of not choosing either/or on a large scale, that is it.

 

We use both, and will continue to do so. Primarily M365, with GW for Chromebooks.

[gszech]

Grab a laptop and download / install the latest Windows 11 Version 23H2 Windows Update. By the time it's done updating (and updating, and updating...), you'll have plenty of time to decide whether you'd rather switch a Chromebook or stick with the ol' reliable Windows machine."

[jthompson]

Just thinking about what others do and how do you do it? Where is your split?

 

Even our Windows PC based support staff are working primarily in Google Workspace. Windows users signed in to Chrome and Google Drive for Desktop. Office apps are present, but I think there's been an organic normalisation of using Sheets, Docs, Drive, etc. because we've been using Gmail for about a decade now.

 

Had we been using Outlook365 all of that time then I suspect it would have been Office365 that experienced that network effect instead.

[dmj]

Ok, we are a school that were onsite microsoft 100% (2019) we moved over to google workspace, all our cloud services Google based. We have this year taken the view that only "One" solution does not fit us. So we are moving to a hybid of services, picking the service from each platform which suites us better... (Classroom Vs Teams... Exchange Vs gMail... Sharepoint Vs Shared Drives).

 

As we are using our Onsite AD as the source of all our... Syncrinizations most account details end up being the same, passwords certainly do.

 

It too is our intention to keep the students on Google, (bar email accounts), as for them its more suited. Staff will end up using Mircrosoft more.

 

I'm *totally* on board with using the best of breed solution on a per application basis, but to intentionally create a divide between staff and student tooling seems completely the wrong way to go about it - the teachers need to be able to use the applications the students are using. If something is better suited to students learning it's the teachers that need to adapt.

[the_quick]

I worked in a school where we have a kind of hybrid solution but with limits. Emails were done with gmail, vle was Google Classroom (both staff and students really liked it), we still had Windows domain and windows PCs in the school, with Office packages on these. Plenty of Chromebooks for students to use in classroom, Windows |Desktops were used in ICT/Computer Science. We used free version of Google Workspace - yes, students and teachers had 2 accounts - AD and Google account - but it seemed to work well.

The plan was to become server less school and use Google to authenticate to desktop computers.

 

Now I work for school that used 0365 - for office based staff it works well, but I think Teams/OneNote are way too complicated in comparison to Google Classroom.

 

If I could, I would change to Google for schools, with use of 1:1 Chromebooks - these work so well in education.

[PotNoodleTech]

Now I work for school that used 0365 - for office based staff it works well, but I think Teams/OneNote are way too complicated in comparison to Google Classroom.

.

 

 

This exactly - It's not about features it is about ease of use and google is so easy to use a 5 year old could do it (and they do, in primary schools!) wheras the microsoft offerings are so poorly laid out with nonsensical methods of doing things or starting things that even I, the supposed guru, literally don't really know if a teams meeting is going to go smootly until the second the meeting starts.

 

Having seen teams and sharepoint etc be used at a supposedly professional level in the LA - it's a total mess. Teams in particular is the worst bit of software on MS365.

[mthomas08]

yeah there seems to be a lot of "Thou Must" orthodoxy and doing anything else is heresy...

 

 

Yes..

 

I get the logic behind it, a Trust will have multiple schools and logically it makes sense to have all the same systems and the lead school will say how things go. To me it makes more sense of a hybrid approach with a nudge in a direction. We find most people are Microsoft orientated from business/uni experiences, but with having Google - it tends to be a preference for certain individuals. I don't see any issue with giving staff/students access Google - it is free! Why not.

 

We here use Google/Microsoft and now Apple. I find iPads the best kind of tablet - my experience with Android is terrible and Microsoft worse and Mosyle MDM is very cheap. Absolute peanuts and our iPads are pretty low cost.

We're a Microsoft Vanilla setup, most of our software won't work on anything but MS - we are in the process of migration some bits to the Cloud. BUT if we had to scrap it all, the work would be huge.. and is it cost effective if we have to replace it all with say Apple devices or Chromebooks?

We use Google Workspaces and M365 - I find some pros/cons. Some depts run smoothly with G Suite some with Teams. I wouldn't say one system is better to the other when it comes to problems. I still get people walking in the door for both. The last one, something on Google and the teacher couldn't invite people to a piece of work.. I couldn't help and Google search didn't help either.

 

One thing I will add, no matter which the platform you choose... the god damn virtual meetings are a PAIN. Like a universal language of glitches.. we've had problems with Google Meet.. Teams .. Cisco.... Zoom.......GoTo.... and all the other software packages people use.. and there seems to be a new one every month.

 

Think at the end of the day, stick with the system you use... it works.. you know it.. is there a point to changing? Unless someone can drastically improve the school by changing.. I don't see the point.

 

We're in the position of being pushed in to a MAT, no details yet but my guess is we will end up adopting what ever they have. If it's change, we change.... some of the MATs I know in our region are any of the big 3: Microsoft/Google/Apple.

Edited December 9, 2024 by mthomas08

[DrCheese]

To me it makes more sense of a hybrid approach with a nudge in a direction. We find most people are Microsoft orientated from business/uni experiences, but with having Google - it tends to be a preference for certain individuals. I don't see any issue with giving staff/students access Google - it is free! Why not.

 

The issue comes with having data everywhere & having it interoperate.

 

For example, we are a 365 school/Trust. We have Onedrive & 365 email. Our shared files are all on Sharepoint. This is a central place.

If I allowed Google Apps, then users would get confused where stuff is & multiple versions would exist. When trying to use the integration within GSuite to email stuff out it wouldn't work, as we would have to have a separate domain to allow email.

You've then got staff converting .docx to gsuite & then back again, making a complete dogs breakfast of the formatting as you go.

 

 

It's also about cost. It may seem free but it isn't - There's the cost to the business of dealing with all of the above (Users getting confused) - We can only afford to back up one, not both. I can only afford to have my staff trained to support one, not both. Sure I could if I really wanted to, but what's the benefit? If I had unlimited sums of money & resources, maybe we could allow user choice, but we don't. T

 

 

My view is that you block parts of the service that you aren't using (Email, file storage), simply to avoid these headaches. But that doesn't mean you completely wall yourself off - For example, We still use iPads & Chromebooks. Both are heavily butchered to have their native tools removed & replaced with the 365 alternatives.

iPads are managed via Intune & have all the SSO extensions on, so they enroll with users EntraID & auto sign into office apps

 

Chromebooks are the same - We've removed all entry points to GSuite apps, users logon with Entra ID & it seamlessly signs into 365 webapps.

Edited December 9, 2024 by DrCheese

[mthomas08]

The issue comes with having data everywhere & having it interoperate.

 

I do get what you mean and agree, but we don't have such problems.

 

X dept uses Google Classroom. Y dept uses Teams.

Cover work is always stored in the staff share area.

 

The file extension problems we get are caused by the students having their own installed office software even though we provide O365... which is compatible with most devices if not all.

[Chris_Cook]

We started with O365, but then moved to Google workspace. We still have O365 active.

 

The google option took a lot less effort to get staff to use it.

 

One thing we did set up was a set of google sites for staff and students to find links to common things like Arbor, Finance forms, email etc.

 

Other than office licences, I don't think o365 still gets used.