Stage amplification

[Mrluckhurst]

Hi edugeekers

 

Having sat through a couple of nativities with children who can be loud everywhere except on the stage what strategies do people use for whole stage amplification?

 

Also as a side note we would like to record the choir etc so the same kit would have to accomplish this

 

Thanks

[slugshead]

Decent mics, decent mixer and some decent active speakers

[Aprice]

Boundary mics are designed to go at the edge of the stage and pick up what is in-front, depending on the size of the stage you may need more that one or two. Alternatively you could try a couple of Shotgun mics aimed in the right directions.

[Mrluckhurst]

Boundary mics are designed to go at the edge of the stage and pick up what is in-front, depending on the size of the stage you may need more that one or two. Alternatively you could try a couple of Shotgun mics aimed in the right directions.

 

Thanks Aprice

 

so maybe a couple of these?

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/bm-38/boundary-condenser-mic/dp/MP33852

[Aprice]

Thanks Aprice

 

so maybe a couple of these?

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/bm-38/boundary-condenser-mic/dp/MP33852

 

Yeah, I'd give one a try and go from there.

 

Just be aware that that one needs Phantom power, most mixers have it but worth a quick check.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Aprice

[dhicks]

Also as a side note we would like to record the choir etc so the same kit would have to accomplish this

 

For a stage where we can't permanently mount equipment, we have two Rode NTG1 shotgun microphones (around £250 each) mounted on extra-tall mic stands so they can be positioned a bit above head height each side of the choir, those then go to a mixer which can provide phantom power. I'm guessing with a nativity you could aim the mics a bit more in the area you expect the children to be speaking in. For our own stage where we can fiddle around and get things in position a bit better we have a couple of hanging condenser mics - a couple of these (£40 each), I think:

 

https://www.studiospares.com/hanging-condenser-mic-studiospares-hm10-449500.htm

 

Again, they'll need phantom power. You dangle them above the choir area, they're small enough that the audience mostly just doesn't notice them.

[Andrew_C]

Forget it?

 

The above suggestions make some sense, but DON'T let anyone get the idea that you're going to be able to hear Mary above the shepherd's shuffling and the sheep over acting.

[PrimaryNetMan]

Interesting article here - https://www.musicademy.com/ask-the-expert-mic-use-for-school-play/

 

"Encouraging the kids to “perform” and project their voices as best they can would get you off to a good start, but really without individual close mic’ing you will not be able to make a mouse shout…"

[dhicks]

Encouraging the kids to “perform” and project their voices as best they can would get you off to a good start

 

I find that this is where the shotgun-mics-on-stands come in handy - the teachers are convinced that there's a magic sound amplification solution of some sort in place as they can see the nice big mics and tell the children to talk towards those.

[PotNoodleTech]

I use 3 condenser mics across the front of the stage - they're not permanently mounted so are on stands. They don't actually ever use the stage properly though they ususally go in front of the stage which means the choir is level with my speakers which gives extra feedback and means I can't turn the mics up quite as much. Not much I can do about that thouth! I generally sitt there in the concert and battle with each mic maximum volume vs feedback starting - like juggling some tomatoes that have been through a blender!

 

Also use a vocal mic for soloists a DI box so they can plug a guitar or bass directly in and 2 stage wedge monitors so the people perfroming can hear the bakground tracks etc.

 

It works decently but I wish i was a sound professional with years of experience in live sound rather than a poor overworked techie who's been lumped with it :/

[Andrew_C]

It works decently but I wish i was a sound professional with years of experience in live sound rather than a poor overworked techie who's been lumped with it :/

It wouldn't help much. Having done this sort of thing for years (not {thankfully} with primary kids) getting people who can't/won't speak/sing up heard is a thankless task.

[paulellam]

We do ok with our set up, We have a wireless handheld mic that is in a camera tripod, this is then strategically placed for the budding acting folk to walk up to to speak/mime/sing etc, the tripod is compact enough to go low for the nursery kids and high enough for adults. The key to things working is that staff are briefed on the pro,s cons of the mic and where to place it etc and also plan around it, if they know before they start practicing it seems to work out better.

[Andrew_C]

this is then strategically placed for the budding acting folk to walk up to to speak/mime/sing etc,

That is totally different from trying to put three mics across the front of the stage, or hung, and hoping to gain any appreciable level. Your scheme stands a cat's chance, the other doesn't.

[nicholab]

There 3 options flown mics, radio on key actors and a boundary like a crown PCC-160.

 

Your sound will not be like a broad way musical. This is slight sound reinforcement that you are going for.

[Andrew_C]

That IS NOT what your teachers are going to expect. You've spent money on buying or hiring kit, therefore they will expect to be able to hear everyone - clearly.

 

That is NOT going to happen.

[DGardiner]

yeah, this isnt an IT issue... if they want professional recording they need to arrange someone to do it for them/provide the relevant equipment.

 

this will only result in people blaming you for the mess

[hallb15]

As others have mentioned, this task is like pushing water uphill with a fork. Having tried many different options, we've ruled out boundary mics (they pick up EVERYTHING including all the sounds you don't want) and now have a mixture of wireless handheld and tie clip mics - up to 8 at once. Each is on it's own channel and can be turned up/down individually to suit the performer and environment. We use this receiver https://www.img-stageline.com/products/microphones/wireless-transmission/txs-686/

 

Also, capturing audio for recording is very different to audio for live performances.

[SamanthaD]

As others have mentioned, this task is like pushing water uphill with a fork. Having tried many different options, we've ruled out boundary mics (they pick up EVERYTHING including all the sounds you don't want) and now have a mixture of wireless handheld and tie clip mics - up to 8 at once. Each is on it's own channel and can be turned up/down individually to suit the performer and environment. We use this receiver https://www.img-stageline.com/products/microphones/wireless-transmission/txs-686/

 

Also, capturing audio for recording is very different to audio for live performances.

 

You realise that receiver is in the frequency range of Channel 46- 49, and requires a very specific type of license to use in the UK? (We use 28, 29 and 31 and have to pay annual fees to Ofcom for the privilege!)

 

Mic'ing nativities. Best results? Don't bother. Boundary mics will amplify everything (mostly footsteps unless you use a really high set high pass, or about a foot's worth of sponge material to isolate it from the stage). Shotguns pointing in from the side can be effective, but produce hotspots on the stage and teachers will want the sound in the centre of the stage louder than the sides, as that's where the actors speaking are likely to be. Flown can work, but again is more of a general lift than the ideal of making the quiet ones as loud as the loud ones.

 

For songs - consider pre-recording it then let them sing along. For speech - hope the teachers have given the important parts to the louder ones!

 

One tip if you do it anyway - if you have a stereo mixing desk consider inverse panning, ie mic Stage Left is panned to come out Stage Right speaker, and vice versa. Gives you a bit more gain before feedback by increasing the distance from microphone to the speaker, and if the actor is SL then the audience closer to them can hear direct, whereas the speaker SR covers the audience that side.

[dhicks]

You realise that receiver is in the frequency range of Channel 46- 49, and requires a very specific type of license to use in the UK?

 

The clearest reference I've found so far explaining wireless mic licensing is:

 

https://www.canford.co.uk/TechZone/Article/UKLegalRadioMicFrequencies

 

As you point out, Channel 46-49 is going to require a PMSE Co-ordinated Frequencies License. If I read that above guide correctly, possibly around £200 a year assuming your school is away from other buildings where the mics might interfere with TV signals and PMSE decide to grant the license, so not too bad.

 

Boundary mics will amplify everything (mostly footsteps unless you use a really high set high pass, or about a foot's worth of sponge material to isolate it from the stage).

 

Good point - I've tried using boundary mics sat on the floor, but, like you say, mainly just got footsteps. I didn't try either padding them or a high-pass filter, so I might try that in the future.

 

Shotguns pointing in from the side can be effective, but produce hotspots on the stage and teachers will want the sound in the centre of the stage louder than the sides, as that's where the actors speaking are likely to be.

 

With a bit of planning, I guess we could try marking the stage and making sure any child speaking is stood in a spot where there's a mic pointing at them.

 

For songs - consider pre-recording it then let them sing along.

 

I've found this works quite well in the past, but is of course fiddly / time-consuming to get sorted. I found it helps if you can split the backing track and recorded lyric track so you can vary the volume of the lyrics if needed. I've done that using Audacity before, but it's probably not the best tool for that job.

 

One tip if you do it anyway - if you have a stereo mixing desk consider inverse panning, ie mic Stage Left is panned to come out Stage Right speaker, and vice versa.

 

Oh, neat trick, thanks!

Edited December 15, 2022 by dhicks

[hallb15]

You realise that receiver is in the frequency range of Channel 46- 49, and requires a very specific type of license to use in the UK? (We use 28, 29 and 31 and have to pay annual fees to Ofcom for the privilege!)

.

Yes, I forgot to mention the annual fee but it's only £135 a year.

[howartp]

The clearest reference I've found so far explaining wireless mic licensing is:

 

https://www.canford.co.uk/TechZone/Article/UKLegalRadioMicFrequencies

 

As you point out, Channel 46-49 is going to require a PMSE Co-ordinated Frequencies License. If I read that above guide correctly, possibly around £200 a year assuming your school is away from other buildings where the mics might interfere with TV signals and PMSE decide to grant the license, so not too bad.

We pay £168 for twenty Ch30 frequencies, but it's capped so once you have 6 frequencies in a given channel you can have as many as you like without paying more than £168.

 

Thus I suspect (unless each channel is different fee structure) you should be less than the £200 guesstimate.

[dhicks]

Yes, I forgot to mention the annual fee but it's only £135 a year.

 

Just as a matter of interest, was that license easy enough to get - is your school on its own site away from other buildings? I'd thought about getting something similar for our drama department, but we're very central London (the building we use for the drama department is just opposite the back entrance to Harrods) and I figured we'd be turned down because of interference problems.

[hallb15]

Just as a matter of interest, was that license easy enough to get - is your school on its own site away from other buildings? I'd thought about getting something similar for our drama department, but we're very central London (the building we use for the drama department is just opposite the back entrance to Harrods) and I figured we'd be turned down because of interference problems.

 

It was done online some years ago but I don't remember it being difficult - it just gets renewed without any input from me every two years now I think. We're in a pretty built up area, but it's mainly houses nearby.

The company we bought the kit from (astounded.com) appears to have ceased trading which is a shame as they were very knowledgeable and helpful.

[SamanthaD]

Yes, I forgot to mention the annual fee but it's only £135 a year.

Awesome, I've seen a lot of people not realising they're using their microphones illegally so just wanted to raise the issue. (During the summer festival season I still get a lot of bands wanting to use 700 MHz kit they bought years ago - they get rather annoyed when I refuse to connect it to my PA!)