Is our network really too slow...?

[Koldov]

I'm pretty sure the answer will be yes, but I've got to ask as I am receiving complaints from a particular teacher. However only one teacher and the work needed to placate just one teacher seems to be inordinate.

 

This is the sort of teacher that thinks everything is too slow (especially their laptop - same spec as everyone else - wants to hotspot her phone to get to essential teaching resources etc. Also wonders why we don't just go EE full fibre broadband like they have at home because that's really fast)... I've spoken to a few other teachers who don't seem to have a problem...

 

We are on an LGfL/Virgin Media connection and according to LGfL we should get something like 200 Mbps but in practise on a normal day I get around 100+ Mbps on Fast.com (I know that is actually slow compared to most of you, but we are a small school with minimum internet needs).

 

The details are class of 30 in the ICT Suite on very old Dell Optiplex 780 desktop computers, but as they rarely do more than a Word document or some online resource I'm not sure this is where the 'problem' is. The children are using Purple Mash (online platform) to do things like coding and the teacher says the children have issues saving their work.

 

Just as a disclaimer, networking is not my strong suit...

 

Set-up is a bit weird as it came from the BSF fund and for some reason half the suite is wired to a cab in the room (with fibre to the main switch room) and the other half is wired straight to patch panels in the main switch room (all Cat6).

 

These are wired into Cisco 2960 series switches and therefore only capable of 10/100 (for years our servers were wired into one of these)...

 

Yes, I know we are well overdue an upgrade, but it will probably mean completely redoing the whole network and small school/small budget... We are a total CISCO shop, from the switches to the APs, so I guess any suggested 'improvements' should bear that in mind (also we will have to pay someone to come in and do any work).

[3s-gtech]

Bear in mind that a lot of schools have ripped out their first gen gigabit switches (or even their second) for newer. With that in mind, I have a stack of SG300s sitting here that could help you? Depends how many you need.

 

That will help a bit, but your desktop specs shouldn’t be a particular issue unless they still have HDDs in them - if they do that needs to be addressed.

 

Only then would I look at your internet connectivity - plenty of larger schools still just about manage on 100Mbps.

[dhandford]

You mention the teacher uses a laptop, are they are on Wifi? It could be worth looking at the connection speed from Wifi, they might just be in a bad spot in regards to the AP.

 

I would second getting upgrades from HDD to SSD if they are present as well.

[Koldov]

Thanks for the offer! I will see how this all pans out before jumping (or if the teacher manages to complain to the Head enough - whichever comes first)...

 

I did put SSDs in all of the computers and upgraded the RAM, but as this is an online platform (Purple Mash) and they are processing the data(?) I'd agree I'm not sure they are the issue.

 

I'm just trying to get my head around if there actually is a problem, I didn't think it was considering many places don't have massive internet connections and this has only just become an issue (and just for one teacher).

 

Cisco also seem to still do 10/100 switches in their 1000 Series switch line (for legacy compatibility), so even that is still a thing.

 

The LGfL graphs are a bit hard to read but we don't seem to be reaching even 100Mbps outgoing more than 1 or 2 times a day, so it isn't like we're saturating the connection or anything.

[Brax]

Thanks for the offer! I will see how this all pans out before jumping (or if the teacher manages to complain to the Head enough - whichever comes first)...

 

I did put SSDs in all of the computers and upgraded the RAM, but as this is an online platform (Purple Mash) and they are processing the data(?) I'd agree I'm not sure they are the issue.

 

I'm just trying to get my head around if there actually is a problem, I didn't think it was considering many places don't have massive internet connections and this has only just become an issue (and just for one teacher).

 

Cisco also seem to still do 10/100 switches in their 1000 Series switch line (for legacy compatibility), so even that is still a thing.

 

The LGfL graphs are a bit hard to read but we don't seem to be reaching even 100Mbps outgoing more than 1 or 2 times a day, so it isn't like we're saturating the connection or anything.

I was going to suggest similar with the SSD's and RAM. I've found when they say things are "slow" it's usually the PC but thankfully we've phased out pretty much all of our older units. I can't imagine it's your network either and just a problematic end user who expects NASA quantum level computing and networking. If it does get through to a complaint then they will have to say exactly what step is "slow" in their opinion.

[mavhc]

I'd go to the class when it's on, log into a spare computer, and run tests while they're there.

 

You want to find the bottleneck.

 

Is it a) the client machine, b) the LAN, c) the internet connection or d) the website they're connecting to?

 

To test the LAN use iperf, you run iperf -s on the server, and iperf -c on the client, that'll tell you the LAN speed, when the class is using it as normal.

 

Fast.com is find for checking the internet speed, but you want to do it from the client computer, while the class is running

 

Follow along with the class, check cpu and disk and network usage as you go.

 

Teach the teacher that "it's slow" is not that helpful, and you want to know exactly why it's slow so you can spend all that spare money you have in the right place.

[CHiLL]

It's not uncommon for each IT department to deal with one of those users. You can either placate to their needs, which increases the likeliness of them finding something else to complain about and expect you to fix it...or you can give them white lies and say you've made changes or replace their laptop like for like and hope the plecebo effect kicks in...or you can just ignore them and complain to management if they become too annoying or start talking out of place because it isn't fixed.

 

It's also worth noting that if your router is also doing filtering or packet inspection, you'll likely not get near the full speed. We have an old Cisco ASA 5512 as an emergency backup router, which has 1Gb ports...but it can only do something like 600Mb if it's doing packet inspection, due to the high processing overhead.

[FN-GM]

I have no technical advise on the issue - it’s hard to say without something more specific.

 

But I would seriously consider getting a move on with upgrading at least some of that kit. It’s ancient now and if it isn’t upgraded in stages you’re going to end up with loads to replace at once. Judging by your comments on budget - they won’t be able to do it all at one time.

 

It also sounds there is a security risk by running hardware without security updates.

Edited November 4, 2022 by FN-GM

[chaplic]

I would not get hung up on individual connections being 100Mbit - let's face it a full 4k stream can fit quite comfortably in a 100Mbit connection. I Couldn't quite understand how stuff is aggregated in your solution so could be a pinch point. Also interested in the wifi kit and what protocols it supports as I'm guessing its old and even then might even be pinned to an even older protocol.

 

Also, no-one has mentioned proxy which will impact even the fastest connections. I've also seen old non-existent proxy servers referenced in a proxy.pac which was a revelation when fixed.

 

Sounds like a similar size school to us, maybe slightly larger, we have pupil laptops, all >8 year old with but SSD, 5 Ubiquiti 802.11AP ac Access points and el cheapo gig switches, connected to a 60Mbit SDSL line and through a council provided smoothwall. Dare I say, the performance is stellar. total cost of networking kit less than a grand. I had 802.11G HP kit previously which to be honest felt as fast but the coverage was pants.

 

All that said even if you were handed a huge budget, I would still be a bit more analytical about whats up before splashing the cash.

 

I think I'd start with a time-and-motion study of the complaining teacher to understand, without judgement at this point, her definition of slow. I'd then figure about a dozen metrics to define what 'bad' looks like then chop-and-change components to see what helps. take them up on their offer to tether, bring your beast of a gaming PC in, cable in at the nearest point to the internet connection, try it on a sunday morning, etc.

 

Doing so might highlight where issues are, some only fixed by new tin, some with better config and once fixed you redo the metrics and keep for 6 months later if you get more complaints.

[Rob_D]

It sounds like you're on a managed connection. In which case the "slowness" and especially the purplemash saving thing, could be down to something in the firewall/webfiltering (that I assume is done by LGfL).

[2097]

We suffer from users stating "Slow" computers.

 

Best way is to go down to the workstation and time it on a phone . Time the Turn on time to logins screen , Then user logon time .

 

Also best to ask what is slow .. I have had people state the "Network" being very slow, when infact its a specific website.

 

We are currently experiencing very slow internet in the mornings which is related to smoothwall which i am trying to figure out . I have had a teacher ask for all new computers to cure this "Slowness" . She didnt realise its every machine going through the smoothwall with slow internet lol !

[Davit2005]

I'd see what the teacher is actually trying to do first hand, it might pay off, CC email offers of spending some time with the teacher to the head to cover yourself. Ignore the comments about home network, cannot compare the two.

[Face-Man]

If you are testing LGFL from a PC plugged into a 10/100 switch even if it is a 200Mbps connection you will only get 100Mbps as the switch is the bottleneck.

 

The DFE are recommending that all school network kit should now be capable of 1Gbps to the desktop.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/meeting-digital-and-technology-standards-in-schools-and-colleges/switch-standards-for-schools-and-colleges

 

While this is of course all depended on budget and your current solution is working but I would be using this set of DFE standards to get money from the school to improve the speed of your switches at some point in the next year or so.

[mavhc]

No point a desktop having gigabit if everything is on the internet and you only have a 1 gigabit connection

[RobD]

I'd go to the class when it's on, log into a spare computer, and run tests while they're there.

 

You want to find the bottleneck.

 

Is it a) the client machine, b) the LAN, c) the internet connection or d) the website they're connecting to?

 

To test the LAN use iperf, you run iperf -s on the server, and iperf -c on the client, that'll tell you the LAN speed, when the class is using it as normal.

 

Fast.com is find for checking the internet speed, but you want to do it from the client computer, while the class is running

 

This is exactly what I would do, get the facts and go from there.

[Andrew_C]

The DFE are recommending that all school network kit should now be capable of 1Gbps to the desktop.

 

Are they going to put their hands in their pockets to make it happen?

[Primus]

Are they going to put their hands in their pockets to make it happen?

 

Quite, I'm not really sure what the purpose of their recent recommendations are given the budget issues.

 

Just asn example, they talk about each edge switch having multiple 10Gb links back to the core that take different paths. Now I'd like to think our schools are pretty well looked after and we've invested properly, but in not a single school do we meet this and that goes for schools built as recently as 4 years ago by DfE.

 

Sadly until we get some proper funding much of it is pie in the sky. The only reason some of our primaries are keeping their heads above water is that we're donating so much kit from our secondaries and we're charging them on a per pupil basis for everything from broadband to licences.

[Wave9_Lee]

Are they going to put their hands in their pockets to make it happen?

 

To be fair they are funding a ton of network upgrade for schools. It's subject to certain areas and eligibility, but £150M committed so far. The areas currrently in scope are detailed in a doc here; https://www.wave9.co.uk/dfe-funding-connect-the-classroom/

So they do recognise the issue.

 

For sites that don't qualify, through our Managed Infrastructure service, we can refresh a network and spread the charges over 5 years including services, hardware, licences, support etc - (not a lease)

[Primus]

To be fair they are funding a ton of network upgrade for schools. It's subject to certain areas and eligibility, but £150M committed so far. The areas currrently in scope are detailed in a doc here; https://www.wave9.co.uk/dfe-funding-connect-the-classroom/

So they do recognise the issue.

 

For sites that don't qualify, through our Managed Infrastructure service, we can refresh a network and spread the charges over 5 years including services, hardware, licences, support etc - (not a lease)

 

What they're currently doing is a drop in the ocean.

[TechMonkey]

Are they going to put their hands in their pockets to make it happen?

 

Are the DfE not setting the baseline that schools should be aiming for, to help with planning and budgeting? They aren't saying that you have to have these now.

[mavhc]

I always saw it as: the IT team wants to upgrade the network, Finance goes: how much?!?! My nephew can install it for £100, IT can then say: Ah, but DFE recommends it

[Koldov]

I admit (although we are now slightly off topic) I only skim read the first few bits of the link, but I got the impression that you actually need to be a 'failing' school to be considered for this funding?

 

Like a faster network connection will miraculously improve your children's grades and that under achieving schools are being held back by I.T. (again with the tech bashing?)

[Roberto]

I admit (although we are now slightly off topic) I only skim read the first few bits of the link, but I got the impression that you actually need to be a 'failing' school to be considered for this funding?

 

Like a faster network connection will miraculously improve your children's grades and that under achieving schools are being held back by I.T. (again with the tech bashing?)

 

Maybe there's a correlation between being a failing school in general and underinvestment in infrastructure (and not just IT infrastructure). I can certainly make a case that improving IT resources makes it easier to achieve in other areas also. After all, is there not about 80 pages of people effectively saying "people under-invest in IT when IT is now essential to running an edu establishment" in the devaluing IT jobs thread?

[mavhc]

It's like anything, people will only adopt it if the belief is it's reliable, teachers aren't going to plan to use electricity when the grid fails every hour. Because the electrical system is over specced so it rarely fails. People walk into buildings all the time because they're over specced so the ceiling rarely crashes down and kills them.

[DrCheese]

I admit (although we are now slightly off topic) I only skim read the first few bits of the link, but I got the impression that you actually need to be a 'failing' school to be considered for this funding?

 

Like a faster network connection will miraculously improve your children's grades and that under achieving schools are being held back by I.T. (again with the tech bashing?)

 

That's correct. I contacted a chap at the DFE who investigated it for us, but ultimately replied that as we hadn't failed our last Ofsted, we couldn't get it. It's a massively perverse incentive.