Equipment on Timers

[CHiLL]

The only real risks to voiding insurance in case of fire would potentially be not PAT testing or knowingly using faulty equipment.

 

I think the replies to this thread speak volumes, this is clearly not an issue anywhere else.

Edited February 11, 2022 by CHiLL

[Koldov]

Nonsense, I bet a whole bunch of cheap timers would be more of a risk!

 

I once toyed with the idea of putting all the classroom devices on timers (speakers, projectors, visualisers, laptop trolleys etc.), but as above the risk of fire from the timers is probably greater, plus we're a small school so it only takes 10 minutes to walk through all the classrooms and turn everything like that off at the end of the day (how is that all dealt with at your site?).

 

However for the OP, as mentioned, the out-of-hours server updates, remote access, off-site backups, off-site CCTV monitoring, component stress, means it's a no from me (except in some extreme circumstances).

 

After a powercut once we found out that the last person to configure one of the WLC hadn't actually saved the config file... that was fun...

Edited February 11, 2022 by Koldov

[GizmoIT]

The PDU's in the cabinets are all surge protected and the electrics in the rooms themselves are protected by RCD/MCB so the chances of a electrical fault causing a fire are extremely minimal.

Like I said previously, he doesn't even like standby lights on monitors, PC's in IT rooms are turned off at the plug nearly every night! Our laptop trollies are all on timers (no problem with that) Digital signage displays are all on timers even though that is set via Impero to come on and go off at a set time. If the site staff see a PC left on after hours they just pull the plugs out of the wall.

[CHiLL]

I think you need to bring it up with management, as the request is most definately unreasonable.

[andy_b]

I think you need to bring it up with management, as the request is most definately unreasonable.

 

Along with behaviour like this - "If the site staff see a PC left on after hours they just pull the plugs out of the wall.", wanton destruction of school property.

[jmak]

Playing devil's advocate - you all know me by now - how often are there posts on here about stuff being left on unnecessarily and teachers thinking electricity is free because they don't pay for it?

 

There's absolutely no way servers or network equipment should be turned off, but instead of starting a fight, maybe try and make an ally? I wouldn't be surprised if he's been set a target to reduce electricity use - or he might have thought of it himself. Electricity prices have increased by 50% recently which will have a noticeable impact on school budgets.

[paulkerton]

I absolutely agree that you should have all the desktops, projectors etc set to automatically switch off or automatically switch off if no signal.

 

However, not your infrastructure. That's just asking for trouble on so many levels.

[Ironside]

Playing devil's advocate - you all know me by now - how often are there posts on here about stuff being left on unnecessarily and teachers thinking electricity is free because they don't pay for it?

 

There's absolutely no way servers or network equipment should be turned off, but instead of starting a fight, maybe try and make an ally? I wouldn't be surprised if he's been set a target to reduce electricity use - or he might have thought of it himself. Electricity prices have increased by 50% recently which will have a noticeable impact on school budgets.

 

I mean, I understand the impetus to work with this site guy, but GizmoIT has said:

"We already shutdown all desktops overnight via Impero, but he doesn't even like standby lights on monitors! It is mainly the data cabinets around the site that is the issue as it "could" be a fire risk."

 

"The PDU's in the cabinets are all surge protected and the electrics in the rooms themselves are protected by RCD/MCB so the chances of a electrical fault causing a fire are extremely minimal.

Like I said previously, he doesn't even like standby lights on monitors, PC's in IT rooms are turned off at the plug nearly every night! Our laptop trollies are all on timers (no problem with that) Digital signage displays are all on timers even though that is set via Impero to come on and go off at a set time. If the site staff see a PC left on after hours they just pull the plugs out of the wall."

 

Unfortunately I don't think this guy can be reasoned with. Standby lights on monitors? Really? Gizmo already turns all the PCs and signs off.

 

OP, tell him that unless he proves your surge protected cabinets and up-to-code electrics are faulty, he has no grounds to force any changes. Also, push back on that "pulling plugs out of the wall" thing - could lead to site staff yanking a power cable out of a PC doing a windows update or pulling plugs out of something more important.

 

[CHiLL]

I wonder if it's cost more money in timers than in the money standby power would cost.

[GizmoIT]

As far as reducing electricity cost go we already have a lot of things in place, all rooms have motion detect LED lighting, we have an abundance of solar panels, efficient heating etc. We are gradually replacing our Projectors & IWB's with promethean touchscreen panels, Virtual servers to reduce the amount of physical server hardware, PC's go to sleep after a period of inactivity. Site manager has been here a long time and has pretty much made a niche for himself and has been allowed to assume a fair amount of unquestioned power by previous management. This is gradually changing but like to get "one up" on issues that come to light

[Koldov]

Always handy to go around and make a list of any school 'site' equipment that is left on when not being used...

 

I'm quite lucky I don't have this problem and I've made it quite clear the I.T. equipment is above his pay grade (and funnily enough mine too, but that's another story), he gets zero say in what happens to any of it. Also I happen to know a fair bit of what he does and what he uses school owned equipment for, isn't exactly 'by the book' shall we say...

[Chris_Cook]

I'd be half tempted to try this on some of the servers or switches that are due for replacement. If something goes pop, then you would have to get an upgrade, wouldn't you?!

 

The other thing to consider with turning off the switches is making sure any config is saved (and backed up).

 

Have you looked to see if there are any green settings on your switches? Some can turn ports off or to a lower speed. You might be able to save some money turning APs and IP phones off at night.

 

As others have said, you may be able to reduce the number or size of switches if you un-patch datapoints that aren't in use.

 

Maybe also use it as an excuse to move to the cloud, or get rid of sims if you still have that. Half our server capacity is on sims servers at least in terms of CPU and RAM.

[Davit2005]

Along with behaviour like this - "If the site staff see a PC left on after hours they just pull the plugs out of the wall.", wanton destruction of school property.

 

Been called across to the other side of site to plug a monitor into a wall socket before now, it is going to happen if things start getting unplugged or switched off at the mains :-)

[Sonic007]

Tell them that equipment gets regular security updates at night and it would be a security risk to turn equipment off.

[DrBeaker]

Been called across to the other side of site to plug a monitor into a wall socket before now, it is going to happen if things start getting unplugged or switched off at the mains :-)

Been called to a couple of classrooms where the site and PAT testers team have failed plugs for VGA splitters etc and I've not been told about it.

 

Only found out when I visited the classroom so it's not like they have a good history of being particularly competent in this area.

[GizmoIT]

 

This is the kind of thing that is placed on the walls

[3s-gtech]

Someone may have to remove those accidentally. Then wire the PCs into the walls with flex fused spurs.

[andy_b]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64630[/ATTACH]

 

This is the kind of thing that is placed on the walls

 

Threatening to damage school property intentionally - nice...

[paulkerton]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64630[/ATTACH]

 

This is the kind of thing that is placed on the walls

Escalate it up the management chain. That's completely unacceptable.

[jmak]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64630[/ATTACH]

 

This is the kind of thing that is placed on the walls

Returning to my earlier response suggesting making friends....

 

Scratch that. This looks like war!

 

More seriously, that is a management issue and needs to be stamped out.

[JATSO]

Looks like that bee in the bonnet needs slapping, put your side to the SLT and just watch him\her to be told that its not going to happen. Don't they remote in at times and backup during nights\weekends

Should probably concentrate on turning lights off, and also closing doors and windows to keep the heat in, Oh aren't we supposed to keep doors and windows open for ventilation (COVID) or has the site manager been locked in a closet for the last 2 years.

[DrBeaker]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64630[/ATTACH]

 

This is the kind of thing that is placed on the walls

 

Returning to my earlier response suggesting making friends....

 

Scratch that. This looks like war!

 

More seriously, that is a management issue and needs to be stamped out.

 

 

That's pathetic really. Escalate to management and ask them to sort.

 

IF... they're doing their job, regular PAT testing should flag up any failings of electrical equipment.

[GrumbleDook]

This has been an interesting thread and is obviously more about the roles and responsibilities than any cost/benefit analysis.

Looked at this 15 years ago now and this is the basic proposal that was in place.

 

1. Put all monitors on their own electrical feed that can be centrally isolated in a classroom.
   
2. Depending on the use of the room, the last person in turns off this circuit so that no monitors are left on stand-by.
   
3. The desktops are on a separate feed and have automated shut-down / start-up in place. This would also allow for scheduling of routine jobs needed to cover the security and protection of the network.
   
4. This was part of a patch management and AV management program. Without the update or the AV scans, it would mean the system would fail external security audits, or leave the school open to serious cyber-attacks (internal and external)
   
5. The separate feeds would have energy monitoring on them, so that costs could be tracked and changes to any scheduled work could be planned.
   
6. Finally, an inital time and motion study would run to allow a review accuracy of the cost/benefit analysis.
   

 

The electricians put a meter on the ring for one of the suites and over a few weeks we tried to replicate the model above. The electricians also helped with the risk assessment for the fire risk too.

The fire risk was low (lowered further by changing the fuses in the leads to monitors and not using Y-leads, ensuring that the PAT testing was done correctly and also involving visual checks once a term by IT staff)

The costs did not justify the additional feeds being retro-fitted to manage a circuit just for monitors.

The costs did not justify the additional feeds being put in for any new-builds/room conversions.

 

Similar was looked at as an option on PFI builds in the area too ... and thrown out.

 

If there is a concern about cost, then solving it using retro-fitting solutions, buying kit or the labour cost to do things manually ... it does not give any cost benefit.

If the concern is about fire, then it is risk assessed and managed.

 

If this is about power and control, then it will only be resolved by the school leadership.

You may need wait for them to do something stupid that damages things or leaves the school open to an issue. You just have to raise the concern to the appropriate level and wait for the brown stuff to hit the rotating thing.

[southhamster]

Interesting thread. Our site manager was pretty hot on this but he actually had proper H&S training on it. Most stuff was turned off at the wall in the evening but he was happy to discuss what needed to be left with us so we were on the same page. The madness of fridges left on all summer holiday with one litre of rancid milk inside was a particular annoyance to both of us. We tended to shut down all the unneeded edge switches, NAS etc for the main summer break, but leave the main server and switches on with AP's for core access, office staff etc.

He saved around 10% off the electricity bill just by doing turning things off every evening. We both had to crack down on rubbish quality £3 mains adapters that staff would bring in from home (non-PAT tested of course) to charge their phones. Even more stupid as we had a good stock of proper ones all PAT tested they could borrow!

[Andrew_C]

Put all monitors on their own electrical feed that can be centrally isolated in a classroom.

There is another advantage to this; and I've had it done in two suites here. The switch is at the teachers' desk - to guarantee focus from the kids, turn their monitors off.

 

The madness of fridges left on all summer holiday with one litre of rancid milk inside was a particular annoyance to both of us.

Beware the Biology department freezer. If that gets turned off, you are going to be very unpopular.