Laptops - is this a fantasy specification?

[rad]

So we have a new Cover room being built, SBM has her heart set on Laptops, all on wifi to be used throughout the day.

 

Requirements are:

 

Laptops

Batteries that can be removed (charged separately if needed) and will last a whole day, every day for their life span (ok I am dreaming here)

Keyboards easy to swap (if keys get broken etc)

touch screens

i5 or i7 spec

 

Oh and we will be buying 120 of the things.

 

Charging, we will need spare batteries and a battery charging unit.... if these still exist.

 

Happy to hear from suppliers (via PM) and others that have experience of this. I havent seen the room layout, but my understanding is the laptops cant be charged while being used as they will be on desks with no power sockets.

[DrBeaker]

So we have a new Cover room being built, SBM has her heart set on Laptops, all on wifi to be used throughout the day.

What is the obsession with laptops EVERYWHERE? I just don't get it.

 

Batteries that can be removed (charged separately if needed) and will last a whole day, every day for their life span (ok I am dreaming here)

 

#Pipe Dream That's the holy grail of the IT world and been as such longer than I've been alive. Majority of recent laptops have non (User) replaceable batteries.

 

Keyboards easy to swap (if keys get broken etc)

 

Largely depends on model etc.

 

touch screens

 

Why? What's the business case/reason where a keyboard is far cheaper?

 

i5 or i7 spec

 

Prepare for a big spend of the ££££'s

 

Oh and we will be buying 120 of the things.

 

 

Charging, we will need spare batteries and a battery charging unit.... if these still exist.

 

Prepare for an even bigger spend of the ££££'s and the nightmare of managing the damm trolleys

 

the laptops cant be charged while being used as they will be on desks with no power sockets

 

Who on earth has specced the room like that?

[XiJ]

Are they staying on the room? If so you’re buying the wrong product. Laptops aren’t what you want!

[jmak]

Starting from the point that you've been told to spec laptops and ignoring the other options:

 

If it's a new room, could you have power sockets in the floor to allow you to charge the laptops at the desks?

 

Or look for laptops with a USB C power input (we have some HP Chromebooks, so I know it's not unique to Apple) and buy a shed load of portable chargers....

 

I'm not sure why the SBM wants laptops, but I can see that on a multi-purpose room, you wouldn't want a desktop PC on every desk.

[christhetech]

So we have a new Cover room being built, SBM has her heart set on Laptops, all on wifi to be used throughout the day.

 

Requirements are:

 

Laptops

Batteries that can be removed (charged separately if needed) and will last a whole day, every day for their life span (ok I am dreaming here)

Keyboards easy to swap (if keys get broken etc)

touch screens

i5 or i7 spec

 

Oh and we will be buying 120 of the things.

 

Charging, we will need spare batteries and a battery charging unit.... if these still exist.

 

Happy to hear from suppliers (via PM) and others that have experience of this. I havent seen the room layout, but my understanding is the laptops cant be charged while being used as they will be on desks with no power sockets.

 

Batteries will never last a whole day, every day for their life span, as no matter what, they do degrade over time.

With an i5 or i7 processor and touchscreens, prepare to spend quite big and forget about the battery life, because it simply isn't going to happen.

I have a Li-Ion battery charging unit, which I use for my camera battery, so they do still exist. However, a lot of modern laptops don't have the same removable battery that the older models had, so it would be a waste of time buying one.

I think that you can still buy certain models of EliteBooks with a second, removable battery. However, this is an additional cost item and is probably not worth the extra cost tbh and it's only available on selected models anyway.

No power sockets at the desks? What planet is this person on?

[maark]

Dell used to have laptops where a second battery went into the cd drive but don't know whether they still do them.

not sure why i5 or i7 - I don't think you will notice any difference for web browsing/Office compared to i3 - processors don't seem to be a factor much nowadays compared to SSDs, wireless speed etc.

[LeMarchand]

Maybe you should see if you can have a meeting to discuss how she sees the room being used. How big is it that you need 120 laptops? Or does this mean 100 laptops around the school + 20 for the room (or similar)? Why the laptops as opposed to All-in-Ones?

 

It might work if you had a couple of trolleys: a morning one (use in morning, charge in afternoon) and an afternoon one (you get the idea), but the chances of the laptops being returned to the correct trolley (or even to a trolley) are slim.

[FishCustard]

What is the obsession with laptops EVERYWHERE? I just don't get it.

 

They're newer and shinier and allow people to talk about "enabling mobile working" and "transformative technology" even if the damn things sit on the same desk every day and never move an inch!

 

We had the same problem here - before I started (i.e. before they had any in house IT) they were going to put laptops at front-of-class in every room. I asked whether the teachers would be taking them home, but no, they'd have separate laptops for that. Needless to say I shot that one out of the sky pretty quickly. Helps that the PC solution was cheaper and provably longer-lasting!

[chazzy2501]

Touch screens means buying the more expensive screens that are usually glossy (fingerprints and strip lights), i5s (boost tech, etc.) are a good choice, removable batteries is going to be tricky, older probooks and elitebooks had easy to replace keyboards as they were made to be field maintained. maybe a laptop that can use a docking station?

[unixman_again]

What is the obsession with laptops EVERYWHERE? I just don't get it.

 

Depends on circumstances. We've taken delivery of 60 laptops for use in the library. They will remain in the library and won't venture out. Why? There are a grand total of six networks points in our library. They are HP EliteBook 840 G1 Core i5, refurbished second hand with SSDs, and seem OK.

[rad]

To answer a few questions,

 

Laptops are staying in this room.

Room is also going to be used for Lets, so hence the portability and moving of desks.

The way the timetable has now been changed to, we have a rolling lunch time (so students are not all on lunch at the same time)

 

I'm fully aware of the dream spec, just trying to find out if such an item exists. No, we were not consulted before the rooms plans were drawn up, only once buildign work had started.

[AlanD]

I'd be wanting a fully functional USB-C socket too (for convenient charging without a custom PSU and onbe that supports video out). And I assume SSDs...

[Sonic007]

To answer a few questions,

 

Laptops are staying in this room.

Room is also going to be used for Lets, so hence the portability and moving of desks.

The way the timetable has now been changed to, we have a rolling lunch time (so students are not all on lunch at the same time)

 

I'm fully aware of the dream spec, just trying to find out if such an item exists. No, we were not consulted before the rooms plans were drawn up, only once buildign work had started.

 

 

That seems crazy then that you were not consulted on the room build.

 

Youll be needing to put a Wirelesss access point in there surely too? And not having any power in the room doesnt make sense.

 

Are they seriously going to be moving 120 laptops everytime the room needs to be let out?

Have they planned charging trolleys and where will these be stored?

 

These are all questions you need to put forward to SLT and to find out who is going to be the gimp that will be ferrying all these trolleys backwards and forwards?

 

Unless you can build some sort of charging walk in cupboard where staff have to return them each night then you really need power in that room.

[christhetech]

Would ultra small form factor PCs mounted on touchscreen monitors not be the more sensible option, although it would mean that you would have to have power at the desks.If you want something that can be on all day, then a PC is a far better solution than a laptop. For portability, either an all in one PC or USFF mounted to touchscreen would do the trick.

 

The last company that I worked for had a SIMS training room set up with USFF machines for all of the managed service schools, mounted onto 20" monitors, in a room that was also used for other training sessions and meetings. They had a walk in cupboard space with shelves for the SIMS training machines when they were not in use. They would run SIMS training quite regularly, so the machines would be moved pretty frequently, and apart from one broken monitor, they had no issues at all with this set-up, and we could have 40 machines set up in about half an hour, ready for use when we needed them and have them packed away in a similar timeframe. We had power and network points recessed into the floor in that room, with hinged metal covers and when we were storing the machines away, the Cat5 cables would be stowed away with the PCs.

 

 

I'm suggesting USFFs simply because if you are moving them and happen to drop one, like we did with the training room PCs there, It's not so costly to just replace a monitor as it is to replace a complete AIO. It's also a lot easier to carry out future tasks like RAM upgrades etc, as the PC just pops off the back of the monitor. All-in-Ones are not quite as easily accessible.

 

I would definitely be sitting down with whoever has made the decision and telling them that they will need to compromise somewhere because what they are proposing is neither feasible, or entirely possible. If they have done any sort of costings on laptops that may get anywhere near what they are asking for, they should have a very healthy budget set aside, which should cover the cost of a more realistic alternative solution.

[Sonic007]

They are either going to haveto have a re-think on how the room is used or plan somewhere to store a bunch of trollies / charging units.

[rad]

Are they staying on the room? If so you’re buying the wrong product. Laptops aren’t what you want!

Fully aware... we have tried to get this across to SBM.

 

Starting from the point that you've been told to spec laptops and ignoring the other options:

 

If it's a new room, could you have power sockets in the floor to allow you to charge the laptops at the desks?

 

Not planned for within the build. It is 3 classrooms been knocked into one with movable walls (which are staying open when it is used for Cover)

 

Batteries will never last a whole day, every day for their life span, as no matter what, they do degrade over time.

With an i5 or i7 processor and touchscreens, prepare to spend quite big and forget about the battery life, because it simply isn't going to happen.

The more techy the laptop.... the less the battery is going to last.

 

Dell used to have laptops where a second battery went into the cd drive but don't know whether they still do them.

not sure why i5 or i7 - I don't think you will notice any difference for web browsing/Office compared to i3 - processors don't seem to be a factor much nowadays compared to SSDs, wireless speed etc.

Thanks, will look at Dells config system to see if this is an option.

We have lessons that use CS6.

 

Maybe you should see if you can have a meeting to discuss how she sees the room being used. How big is it that you need 120 laptops? Or does this mean 100 laptops around the school + 20 for the room (or similar)? Why the laptops as opposed to All-in-Ones?

 

It might work if you had a couple of trolleys: a morning one (use in morning, charge in afternoon) and an afternoon one (you get the idea), but the chances of the laptops being returned to the correct trolley (or even to a trolley) are slim.

 

I am S.Tech here... its the NM who has to get this across.

 

That seems crazy then that you were not consulted on the room build.

 

Youll be needing to put a Wirelesss access point in there surely too? And not having any power in the room doesnt make sense.

 

Are they seriously going to be moving 120 laptops everytime the room needs to be let out?

Have they planned charging trolleys and where will these be stored?

AP's have been spec'd, as for charging.... still trying to work out how this is happening. They need to be on timers too, no point having them on charge from Fri 4pm to Mon 8am.

Yep...120 laptops plugging in to charge every night, its a boring task doing 16 ipads.

 

 

To repeat, this room is going to be managed by the Cover Staff, would your staff be up to this?

Edited September 20, 2018 by rad

[HTCPCP]

Well, looking at your specs, you can always show the SBM the Lenovo X280/X380 Yoga - and then show them the price tag. Even with edu and bulk discount, I would think it would be around £700-750 per device ex VAT, and storage cabinets, and external battery charging, and everything else linked. I take it that they have over £100k for the project? But if that's the case, surely something

- and would look amazing to show off during open days!

 

In all seriousness, speak to ICT direct, Dave will be able to hit you up with some solutions!

[Andrew_C]

It would be fun programming that lot to do things like Mexican waves...

[mavhc]

Estimate total cost over 10 years, provide alternatives such as adding in more power sockets.

 

Include time spent to keep them charged, fixed etc. Cost to replace batteries every 3 years. Is this 120 laptops in 1 room? Will need great wifi.

 

Ask what the touchscreens will be used for, if you're going to have glossy screens you need the right lighting system in the room, consider window placement etc.

 

It's not impossible, just very expensive. Likely they haven't considered all the other options, nor the cost of this one.

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

So we have a new Cover room being built, SBM has her heart set on Laptops, all on wifi to be used throughout the day.

 

Requirements are:

 

Laptops

Batteries that can be removed (charged separately if needed) and will last a whole day, every day for their life span (ok I am dreaming here)

Keyboards easy to swap (if keys get broken etc)

touch screens

i5 or i7 spec

 

Oh and we will be buying 120 of the things.

 

Charging, we will need spare batteries and a battery charging unit.... if these still exist.

 

Happy to hear from suppliers (via PM) and others that have experience of this. I havent seen the room layout, but my understanding is the laptops cant be charged while being used as they will be on desks with no power sockets.

 

Yes mate, this is fantasy at the moment. You won't be buying 120 of these fictional things unless you invent them yourself.

[Arthur]

Batteries that can be removed (charged separately if needed) and will last a whole day

Make sure you buy laptops that can charge via USB-C and you will have a lot more options when it comes to charging solutions (especially in the long term).

 

e.g.

 

www.omnicharge.co/products/power-station / www.omnicharge.co/industries/education

 

 

Obviously desktops would be a better solution.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Arthur

[djm968]

Your NM needs to grow a pair and tell SLT and the SBM that this isn't a good idea. He could use this thread and the comments from the Educational IT professionals here to support his position.

[foofighterjim]

As others have mentioned you need to decide what the most important part of that spec is. You can't have an i and have all day battery life.

 

We were looking for a similar device to you a few years ago and went with a model similar to these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-R3-131T-Touchscreen-Notebook-Celeron/dp/B016B902OM

 

We swapped the hard drive for SSDs and the only thing we were lacking in was the processor department, unfortunately this is what also gave us the all day battery life. We got some lapcabby trolleys to charge them at set time intervals and all was good. They are entering year 3 of their lifecycle and are still lasting a whole school day on a single evening charge!

 

 

Regarding the actual scenario with the room, that is ridiculous.

[psydii]

Thinkpad L380 - at that volume you'll get great discounts. USB-C charging too.

 

If the laptop form factor is important then touch isn't. (you can get touch L380 for very little extra money though)

 

If touch is important - is there a real reason that shared iPads with decent keybord covers (like the Zagg Messenger) wounld be the better choice?

 

Battery life depends upon what you are doing. Chrome will kill a laptop battery, Edge is better. Transcoding/Photoshop will also massively drain things. A bit of word/excel and internet browseing and you are good all day.

A charge over the lunch breakand the one free period IT suites typically experience during a day should keep you going.

[jmak]

The other thing about this scenario that seems fantasy to me is that anything useful will happen in a room with 120 students in it.... Perhaps lessons have changed since I was a teenager.