CCTV Question

[JamesParker]

Hi Everyone

 

can you please give me your opinion on CCTV at my current school we have had the CCTV on in our office for the last 5 years however now a new deputy has started and said that we should have this removed as it is inappropriate for us have cctv that shows children continually on show, he said it should be removed under safeguarding.

 

As far as I’m aware most schools have CCTV on display be it in the ICT support office or some other office!

 

We have all taken it a little personal, it is like saying we do not trust you and we think you may be inappropriately watching children all day!

 

Your opinions would be much appreciated

 

James

Edited February 9, 2018 by JamesParker

[fiza]

Do you have students coming in asking for IT help who may view the CCTV images whilst in your office? That might be a reason to move it. Ours are in the premises office where students do not go.

[MatthewL]

What does your CCTV policy say?

[JamesParker]

Yes we do have students in the office, though it's always been a benefit as they see that they can be seen, our policy is vague , signs say cameras are monitored, we have since had students saying they don’t want the cameras off they prefer them monitored , the good kids though!

 

Let me say though this is not about us wanting the cameras on it's about the what was said to us and that we honestly believe the students are safer with them on even though we only glimpse at them from time to time, to be fair for us it's one less worry, if a mad axe man comes on site at least we couldn't be found at fault for not raising the alarm if we didn't have the screens on!

Edited February 8, 2018 by JamesParker

[mukz]

Is it anywhere else? Premises office? Heads office?

 

If not, throw it in there an let it be their problem

Edited February 8, 2018 by mukz

[fiza]

Where is he suggesting it's moved to? What exactly is the safeguarding issue.

[JamesParker]

He's not suggesting it be moved anywhere, just doesn't want us or anyone else watching it

 

As for the safe guarding issue to him it's 'inappropriate' (this was his words) for us to have images of students on display!

[Katy]

Ours is on in the premises office, and also in the evenings/Saturdays it's on wherever the "security/evening reception" lady is sat. Never had it on in our office, it'd have to be a decent size screen to be any use and I've got better uses for the money.

 

I don't see how it's a safeguarding issue for DBS cleared staff to be able to see it - we see ours when asked to go through playback if there's an incident, or to download clips for the police etc.

[Katy]

As for the safe guarding issue to him it's 'inappropriate' (this was his words) for us to have images of students on display!

If that's the case then there should be no images of students on any of the walls or website, and if it's anything like us the corridor walls are plastered with photos (either from things like D of E or sports games, or the "team photo" etc).

If it's "inappropriate" to be able to see students then how does anybody manage to work in school without a blindfold??

[mukz]

He's not suggesting it be moved anywhere, just doesn't want us or anyone else watching it

 

As for the safe guarding issue to him it's 'inappropriate' (this was his words) for us to have images of students on display!

 

If you or anyone else is not watching it (like you have time to sit there and watch, cos i defo dont) or keeping an eye on it how is that not a bigger safeguarding issue?

You may spot something which by the time you have watched retrospectively could escalate aka your axeman.

[eddyc]

My team is based in an office with the site\facilities team and we have one screen showing 9 cameras on the main entrances \ car parks.

 

We used to have all of the cameras rotating through however that caused complaints from the IT department (as the IT rooms are the only classrooms with cameras in) because they felt they were being picked on.

 

The reason for stopping the rotation was that if a student was in the office for long enough, they could potentially see camera locations and any blind spots near them.

[forkies]

He's not suggesting it be moved anywhere, just doesn't want us or anyone else watching it

 

As for the safe guarding issue to him it's 'inappropriate' (this was his words) for us to have images of students on display!

 

Well in that case all students should hide in blankets while they walk around school so that you don’t see them, as it’s exactly the same view you would get when you are out and about school.

 

As others have said, it’s down to your cctv policy and reasoning behind having it up. We have ours up so we can ensure safeguarding of the site and we respond to missing students of student who have walked off from lessons and need tracking down.

 

I also always have it up when working off hours for personal safety, so I can see who is around the site especially weekends and late at night.

 

All of this is clear in our cctv policy and acceptable as per governor ratification.

[clockend25]

We've got about 30 cameras in our new building. The 16 we've set recording (mainly external plus internal communal spaces) are viewable via a separate workstation on the reception desk to assist the receptionist in letting people in via the perimeter gates. That's about it.

[Garacesh]

We have many cameras, but none of them are passively displayed on a screen somewhee. Camera feeds are brought up and examined only when a CCTV request is made. This request gets logged (who, when, why, and what footage from when was viewed) and needs to be authorised by a member of SMT.

 

We did, at one point, have a passive live feed of the car park running in the Business Manager's office, but that's because we had an issue with vehicle vandalism. That's no longer a thing any more.

[Ksavage413]

25 cameras, with a tucked away monitor out of view. The monitor can only show 4 cameras at a time, and one of those is always showing cam1 (which is mounted above our office door). The only feed we can see is the camera mounted in the classroom that connects to our office/the server room, so that we have footage of the server room exits in case something bad happens. Or so we can hide under the desk when we see the Head coming our way

[Disease]

We have around 40 cameras on display in the IT office, but who has time to sit and stare at them all day.

[sparkeh]

I think you could do with reading up on the guidance from the ICO and the Surveillance Camera Commissioner.

 

ICO: https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1542/cctv-code-of-practice.pdf

Surveillance Camera Commissioner: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/surveillance-camera-code-of-practice

 

Can't see anything that would explicitly say that you shouldn't be doing this, perhaps the area that the footage is being viewed needs to be addressed, however a big question would be over the justification for having live streams in the first place.

[rom1984]

The deputy head might have done a Privacy Impact Assessment in light of the GDPR and found that having staff being able to view CCTV when ever they want as a risk.

 

One of the things that the ICO will look at when evaluating CCTV usage is that is it being used in a proportionate response to a problem taking into balance the rights of privacy of the students.

 

They may feel that having staff being able to just look at the CCTV when ever they want is not using the CCTV in a proportionate response to a problem and thus it should be placed in a lockable room/cupboard and used when required (i.e to view a potential safeguarding issue)

 

Quick Edit- I work for the ICO but the advice given is my own and not made on behalf of the ICO! When dealing with CCTV some of the key question that I would expect a case officer to ask would be 1) Who has access to the CCTV records / who has access to view the CCTV recording 2) Justify why the person has access to the CCTV system. 3) What's the procedure to view CCTV recordings 4) How are the CCTV recordings protected (i.e encryption, physical access etc)

 

If the ICT Team had near unlimited access to the system at any time without authorisation I would expect the school to be able to justify this taking into account the privacy rights of the students and staff

Edited February 9, 2018 by rom1984

[mthomas08]

I think you could do with reading up on the guidance from the ICO and the Surveillance Camera Commissioner.

 

ICO: https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1542/cctv-code-of-practice.pdf

Surveillance Camera Commissioner: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/surveillance-camera-code-of-practice

 

Can't see anything that would explicitly say that you shouldn't be doing this, perhaps the area that the footage is being viewed needs to be addressed, however a big question would be over the justification for having live streams in the first place.

 

I was just about to post this.

 

CCTV is covered in regards to consent, why you have it, who has access to it and should they have access. We have limited who can ask for it, who has access to the footage all for GDPR and in simple terms 'covering our backs'.

 

Although I wouldn't call it a safeguarding issue, I'd play it safe by not having it on display just for GDPR. And some one else mentioned the privacy risk.. this is a good example... it could be classified as a risk.

 

If there is no valid reason you have CCTV on display in the office I would just stop it to protect your selves.

[Katy]

I was just about to post this.

 

CCTV is covered in regards to consent, why you have it, who has access to it and should they have access. We have limited who can ask for it, who has access to the footage all for GDPR and in simple terms 'covering our backs'.

 

Although I wouldn't call it a safeguarding issue, I'd play it safe by not having it on display just for GDPR. And some one else mentioned the privacy risk.. this is a good example... it could be classified as a risk.

 

If there is no valid reason you have CCTV on display in the office I would just stop it to protect your selves.

 

Thinking about it, the only reason the current system is on in the premises office here is "because the old one* was", which obviously isn't a good enough reason. Although we also have somebody monitoring it in the evenings, and the majority of our CCTV is external (or fitted indoors but covering an external door).

 

 

I think regarding the OP - if the deputy had chosen better words rather than almost accusing IT of "spying on the children" this thread probably wouldn't even have come about.

 

Edit: The old system was a recorder which was located in the premises office, not sure why it was installed there but I wasn't involved in its installation. New system is rack mount locked away in the server room.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Katy

[JamesParker]

I think regarding the OP - if the deputy had chosen better words rather than almost accusing IT of "spying on the children" this thread probably wouldn't even have come about.

.

 

yep your probably correct !

 

has as been said who has the time to watch them anyway,

 

we have gone through times taking it in turns to watch them during dinner to assist in catching smokers as requested by SLT and as during lessons there is never really any activity so notice movement at a glimpse and many times its been a student attempting to get off site that we have reported.

 

considering purely the positives and negatives i would prefer my children schools had them on display somewhere even if they are only briefly glimpsed at it would reduce the risk of an incident or intruder,

 

 

 

or it could be the deputy doesn't want to be seen doing something on camera!

 

Privacy over Safety , its a world gone mad on paranoia 'snowflakes' spring to mind!

Edited February 9, 2018 by JamesParker

[sparkeh]

i would prefer my children schools had them on display somewhere

I completely disagree. The thought of someone sat in an office watching my child on CCTV for no good reason gives me shivers.

Privacy over Safety , its a world gone mad on paranoia 'snowflakes' spring to mind!

Not really. Its balancing safety and privacy. Also, if people are continually being watched on a CCTV live stream then they are justified in feeling paranoid.

[JamesParker]

I completely disagree. - continually being watched on a CCTV live stream then they are justified in feeling paranoid.

 

I think we are talking about different things there's a difference between 'continually being watched '/monitored and having them on display

 

i'd be surprised if any IT dept would have the time to monitor them all the time

 

so how do you feel going in to supermarkets and town centers !

 

for no good reason'.

 

really do you work in a school or maybe its just my school that has drug dealers at the gates and students bullying each other, not to mention the angry parents coming on site threatening students & Staff

 

Students knowing that there is the the possibility that someone may see what they are doing shouldwork as a deterrent that's why all our signs say the CCTV is monitored !

Edited February 9, 2018 by JamesParker

[sparkeh]

so how do you feel going in to supermarkets and town centers !

Spied upon

[JamesParker]

Spied upon

 

lol , yes true - but its the times we live in i'm afraid - how long before we all start wearing body cams & like the police this may not be by choice!

Edited February 9, 2018 by JamesParker