Head has asked if its possible to get her a Mac for our windows network.

[TwistedHelixis]

I think I might be a bit of a control freak.

 

Anyway, I am going to get her a very nice Windows device, as the extra work and lack of control don't fit my requirements.

[nicholab]

Other think is that if it a Windows machine you will be able to swap laptop easily be able to provide a temporary machine that is part of the network. Also I don't know why head can't buy there own shiny stuff I mean most heads are on £80-100K. Also as a head I would only have the same kit as the staff otherwise you bread resentment. Edited June 21, 2017 by nicholab

[Snoochieboochies]

I'd bet a bag of cookies that they have seen another head with one and think that all heads should have one.

I think they also like to feel special by having something that other staff don't.

 

I noticed that the fad for SM owning iPads wore off rapidly when departments started buying them. They just weren't as shiny anymore when everyone had one.

[jthompson]

Other think is that if it a Windows machine you will be able to swap laptop easily be able to provide a temporary machine that is part of the network.

 

Yep. Also, if the head has a one-off MacBook, you'd want to have a spare charger stashed away for sure.

[pete]

My concern would be key escrow for the encryption. If (for example), the head gets hit by a bus or gets sacked, can the replacement (or whoever the governing body instructs) access data held on the device?

 

I'd be happier with the request if there were N+1 macs to justify the effort in managing multiple devices. A one-off special is kinda asking for bad things to happen due to neglect/lack of experience supporting them.

 

For managing applications, look at Munki.

[TwistedHelixis]

Just wanted to say a BIG thanks for all your advice :0)

[Stevecee]

Still, it's money paid to educate the children being spent on shiny-shiny-no-brainy.

 

I think its easy to quickly rebuff anything with an Apple logo on it as shiny shiny and expensive - What is wrong with good product design? And have you compared feature by feature including the bundled software, to see what an equivalent Windows machine would cost? I have a few years ago and ended up with a MacBook Pro.

 

Yes I'm a fan of Macs! but at the same time I use windows boxes, the answers so far seem to be centred on a stand point that its "Apple" it must be bad, many of the points that have been made are valid but there are also posts on the other side see - asc's reply

 

I currently manage a school with Windows servers and Macs and iPads throughout, would I be so stressed if the head wanted to add a windows laptop? Yes I'd have reservations, but not to extent i can see on here.

 

Personally i don't see issues with security and connection, these are possibly less of a concern that on a Windows PC, Your AV supplier will have a Mac edition and updates could be managed by the Head (with the proviso that they check with you before they upgrade the OS)

 

Steve

[Guest kiest90]

With more recent MAC’s the SSD etc are soldered to the board therefore making repair and or upgrades more costly and difficult to carry out

[Norphy]

With more recent MAC’s the SSD etc are soldered to the board therefore making repair and or upgrades more costly and difficult to carry out

 

That is not a situation unique to MacBooks. The new Surface Book can't even be taken apart without a craft knife.

[synaesthesia]

I think its easy to quickly rebuff anything with an Apple logo on it as shiny shiny and expensive - What is wrong with good product design? And have you compared feature by feature including the bundled software, to see what an equivalent Windows machine would cost? I have a few years ago and ended up with a MacBook Pro.

 

Yes I'm a fan of Macs! but at the same time I use windows boxes, the answers so far seem to be centred on a stand point that its "Apple" it must be bad, many of the points that have been made are valid but there are also posts on the other side see - asc's reply

 

I currently manage a school with Windows servers and Macs and iPads throughout, would I be so stressed if the head wanted to add a windows laptop? Yes I'd have reservations, but not to extent i can see on here.

 

Personally i don't see issues with security and connection, these are possibly less of a concern that on a Windows PC, Your AV supplier will have a Mac edition and updates could be managed by the Head (with the proviso that they check with you before they upgrade the OS)

 

Steve

 

I have a large blog post detailing the nuances of Apple devices and why I dislike them, mostly as a company, so much. And looking shiny doesn't mean good design when it detracts from the engineering. It's easy to compare side by side and bias will always win out, it takes little time at all to disprove all of that. In this particular instance, keeping things on topic, my biggest reservation is wasting public money on something that someone wants, not what someone needs.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

With more recent MAC’s the SSD etc are soldered to the board therefore making repair and or upgrades more costly and difficult to carry out

 

I shall hasten to defend Apple a little here (yes, really) - the newest models are looking to be upgradable...

[jthompson]

I think its easy to quickly rebuff anything with an Apple logo on it as shiny shiny and expensive - What is wrong with good product design?

 

The charger, IMHO. I have a large number of boring old Dell laptop chargers that have survived many more years in the hands of uncaring users than my own MacBook charger, which lasted only three years of my own obsessively careful handling. I'd need a strong case to be made before I introduced any hardware bespoke to one user, and/or that the school didn't have any previous history with.

[sted]

I have a large blog post detailing the nuances of Apple devices and why I dislike them, mostly as a company, so much. And looking shiny doesn't mean good design when it detracts from the engineering. It's easy to compare side by side and bias will always win out, it takes little time at all to disprove all of that. In this particular instance, keeping things on topic, my biggest reservation is wasting public money on something that someone wants, not what someone needs.

I shall hasten to defend Apple a little here (yes, really) - the newest models are looking to be upgradable...

 

one of my biggest issues is the form over function that means on a mac mini say the power switch is on the back where its more of a pita to reach than the front same with usb would putting a port or 2 on the front make it look that much worse no would it make using the device considerably easier probably instead of having to mess around down the back just to plug in a usb stick for 2 minutes

[synaesthesia]

The charger, IMHO. I have a large number of boring old Dell laptop chargers that have survived many more years in the hands of uncaring users than my own MacBook charger, which lasted only three years of my own obsessively careful handling. I'd need a strong case to be made before I introduced any hardware bespoke to one user, and/or that the school didn't have any previous history with.

 

Hah, forgot about that. Macbook chargers are like Ford Mondeo bumpers. You just don't see one in one piece unless it's brand new. Otherwise it's taped up to high heaven within a year. Shame because the maglock works so well, just a shame that the non existant strain relief is equal in quality to a 99p chinese noname charger cable

[Roberto]

Yes I'm a fan of Macs! but at the same time I use windows boxes, the answers so far seem to be centred on a stand point that its "Apple" it must be bad, many of the points that have been made are valid but there are also posts on the other side see - asc's reply

 

It certainly amused me to essentially see the topic drift around "Macs are shiny and shiny is bad use of taxpaye's money so get them something else shiny like a HP Spectre".

 

I think there may be some point in saying that someone who works remotely more than others might need a device that's better geared around remote work (which might include better battery life than normal, lighter) than the normal el-cheapo laptops we buy in bulk, so I wouldn't necessarily deride as "shiny" the need for someone in a unique role in the organisation to have unique equipment.

 

However (and speaking as a huge mac fan in my personal life, as @Norphy can verify) I wouldn't be keen to buy something so far out of the normal range of the school's functionality and supportability for just one person. Actually the HP Spectre might not be a bad shout... but for other reasons besides "because it's shiny, but not a Mac".

 

Hah, forgot about that. Macbook chargers are like Ford Mondeo bumpers. You just don't see one in one piece unless it's brand new.

 

I can show you several Mac laptops with original chargers, none of which are newer than 3 years old and all of which are more or less 'like new'.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Roberto

[DJ-1701]

I have a compromise for the Mac fans and Windows fans.

MacBook Pro with Windows 10 installed.

[Joanne]

I have a compromise for the Mac fans and Windows fans.

MacBook Pro with Windows 10 installed.

 

Don't even waste you breath @DJ-1701 ... you'll never get these people to see eye to eye on Mac vs PC!!!

[Norphy]

I have a compromise for the Mac fans and Windows fans.

MacBook Pro with Windows 10 installed.

 

*cough*

[TwistedHelixis]

Thanks for all the info. Although I am not an Apple fan it's also my job to try and accommodate my schools needs as best I can. What I have explained to the head is that, yes she could have a Mac, that's totally her choice, but there will be extra work from my point of view. For example I needed to deploy a new proxy cert last weekend which I did using the GPO on the server, I would have needed to install the cert directly on her Mac. Another issue would be that we would not have any spare Macs, so if her one went pop she would be without one until it was fixed. It also makes more sense if going down the Mac road to purchase a good few and then we could look at getting a Mac server or something similar.

 

Thanks

[Lonix]

I think its easy to quickly rebuff anything with an Apple logo on it as shiny shiny and expensive - What is wrong with good product design? And have you compared feature by feature including the bundled software, to see what an equivalent Windows machine would cost? I have a few years ago and ended up with a MacBook Pro. Yes I'm a fan of Macs! but at the same time I use windows boxes, the answers so far seem to be centred on a stand point that its "Apple" it must be bad, many of the points that have been made are valid but there are also posts on the other side see - asc's reply I currently manage a school with Windows servers and Macs and iPads throughout, would I be so stressed if the head wanted to add a windows laptop? Yes I'd have reservations, but not to extent i can see on here. Personally i don't see issues with security and connection, these are possibly less of a concern that on a Windows PC, Your AV supplier will have a Mac edition and updates could be managed by the Head (with the proviso that they check with you before they upgrade the OS) Steve

 

The OP is simply taking it all in without fully understanding.

-Mac isn't going to work with everything you currently have on Windows (dept software, MIS, permissions on what staff can/can't do)

-Cost effective it's very poor depending on the reasoning

 

At the end of the day it boils down to two important things: Preference and money.

 

It’s very easy to say “shiny expensive” because it tends to be true 99% of the time. I myself have an iPhone because everything is tied to my iCloud account. Makes sense for me to carry on with it (iTunes purchases, photos, notes and everything). If money became dire and it died tomorrow I’d have no choice but to look elsewhere product wise.

 

Even with all that product design, features and bundled software the majority will still use it for basics and nothing more – email, internet, office and department software for creating curriculum materials (most done on office).

 

Problem is in 2017 of Education where staff are being laid off, serious cut backs and every £1000 is needed and heavily evaluated on spending. You’ve got schools even asking donations from parents - is it cost effective to be purchasing a “pretty expensive device” that won’t be used any more than a Windows Laptop? No. Especially now that so many are demanding more money from the Government. In fact I'd even ask is it right for a school to spend that amount of money on a device just for preference to no improvement on T&L... sorry parents we want you to donate £200 per student but we will still buy Apple devices....

 

Not to mention all the hours extra a technician will put in because the user will ask "can I have this" which is Windows only, Can I have that which is Windows Vanilla only. So the techie will put hours and hours making his Mac seem like a Windows machine. Not for the benefit of students or even the school but because one person wants a "shiny shiny expensive pretty Mac" on the desk. Then you get every staff member seeing that Mac “OHHHH can I have one???”….. for them to tell you but I want all my Windows stuff too!

 

I don’t think I spotted anyone saying Apple is bad but in Education 2017 is it cost effective? How many of us here have shrinking IT budgets to keep crucial systems online and classrooms running? While someone asks for an Apple device out of preference…..

 

 

If you’re a pure Mac system it absolutely makes sense to carry on with Apple. If you’re a pure Windows system likewise but if you’re a mix in today’s economic state of Education there should be a question mark on why do you need an expensive device. I guess because I’ve had my IT budget slashed by 25% (like most here have IF they’ve got budgets at all) and seeing other schools being able to splash the cash without a care I feel total envy. Especially when some of us are even contemplating resorting to Linux/OpenSource and Cloud Education systems because they are all free....

 

This argument, debate has gone on for years and the end result is always the same – as I said: Preference and money. If you can get away with spending it without a care... lucky you.

 

I'd also like to add that it's my feeling toward any expensive kit, we don't even provide laptops generally to staff due to costs. Any expensive device is heavily evaluated (plus we have wasted far too much over the years).

Edited July 17, 2017 by Lonix

[Brimstone]

The OP is simply taking it all in without fully understanding.

-Mac isn't going to work with everything you currently have on Windows (dept software, MIS, permissions on what staff can/can't do)

-Cost effective it's very poor depending on the reasoning

 

At the end of the day it boils down to two important things: Preference and money.

 

It’s very easy to say “shiny expensive” because it tends to be true 99% of the time. I myself have an iPhone because everything is tied to my iCloud account. Makes sense for me to carry on with it (iTunes purchases, photos, notes and everything). If money became dire and it died tomorrow I’d have no choice but to look elsewhere product wise.

 

Even with all that product design, features and bundled software the majority will still use it for basics and nothing more – email, internet, office and department software for creating curriculum materials (most done on office).

 

Problem is in 2017 of Education where staff are being laid off, serious cut backs and every £1000 is needed and heavily evaluated on spending. You’ve got schools even asking donations from parents - is it cost effective to be purchasing a “pretty expensive device” that won’t be used any more than a Windows Laptop? No. Especially now that so many are demanding more money from the Government. In fact I'd even ask is it right for a school to spend that amount of money on a device just for preference to no improvement on T&L... sorry parents we want you to donate £200 per student but we will still buy Apple devices....

 

Not to mention all the hours extra a technician will put in because the user will ask "can I have this" which is Windows only, Can I have that which is Windows Vanilla only. So the techie will put hours and hours making his Mac seem like a Windows machine. Not for the benefit of students or even the school but because one person wants a "shiny shiny expensive pretty Mac" on the desk. Then you get every staff member seeing that Mac “OHHHH can I have one???”….. for them to tell you but I want all my Windows stuff too!

 

I don’t think I spotted anyone saying Apple is bad but in Education 2017 is it cost effective? How many of us here have shrinking IT budgets to keep crucial systems online and classrooms running? While someone asks for an Apple device out of preference…..

 

 

If you’re a pure Mac system it absolutely makes sense to carry on with Apple. If you’re a pure Windows system likewise but if you’re a mix in today’s economic state of Education there should be a question mark on why do you need an expensive device. I guess because I’ve had my IT budget slashed by 25% (like most here have IF they’ve got budgets at all) and seeing other schools being able to splash the cash without a care I feel total envy. Especially when some of us are even contemplating resorting to Linux/OpenSource and Cloud Education systems because they are all free....

 

This argument, debate has gone on for years and the end result is always the same – as I said: Preference and money. If you can get away with spending it without a care... lucky you..

I know a primary school in Hackney, they bought MacBooks and iPads and made some IMPACT with them. They did away with the following;

 

Windows desktops and laptops

Crap Smartboards and software licences

Poor subscription web based resources that cost the too much, were not used and created their own

Massively reduced the amount of printing and copying by working with a proper digital curriculum designed for mobile learning.

 

And the results...

 

They have saved OVER 16K from their previous budget in the first 6 months and more importantly made a significant transformation of the learning environment.

 

The point here is, it does not matter what you buy, technology can not make any difference unless everyone teachers, IT admin, bursar, SLT and headteacher are all working towards a vision and goal to succeed.

[TwistedHelixis]

They have saved OVER 16K from their previous budget in the first 6 months

Wish we had that sort of budget to start with...Currently we buy a new laptop trolley + laptops every 6 or 7 years, 1 server every 5 years, Google cloud for office apps (free) which cuts down on printing and our smartboard licence is not a great deal. Most of our software is either open source or purchased with the view it will be used for years, Sims is a bit over priced for a primary but all in all we do not come anywhere near the money you are quoting as having been a saving.

 

Which area do you think has made the biggest saving? I would guess printing.