CC(4) Experiences?

[Gongalong]

Hi All,

 

We're now at the point of seriously considering moving from RM Ranger to CC(4).

 

Can I ask what people's experiences of it are from a stability point-of-view?

 

We've used RM's support with Ranger and Unify, and although a little bumpy at times it has been OK overall.

 

RM Ranger has been pretty good, and it's a shame it's going end-of-life.

 

Any experiences must appreciated.

 

Thanks

[deano3693]

We have no issues - It does everything we want to it to do and means the network is easy and simple to manage. You will also benefit from the new ConnectonPrem annual license model which is based on FTE could but you can build unlimited PC's and all your server licensing is included.

[Norphy]

It depends on your school, your network, the people you have working for your IT, all kinds of things.

 

My experience of CC3/4 has been pretty negative. However, that's probably because of the size of the organisations that I've worked for who used it and the complexity of their networks. We are starting the planning process of migrating away from it.

 

I think that Community Connect could be a good product but it's not suitable for everyone. That isn't the fault of the product or the customer, it's just how it is.

 

I will say this, it would probably be considerably cheaper for you to migrate to a System Center based network and have RM help you manage that; that is a service they offer.

[Gongalong]

There are some features that we would find useful, which we find useful in Ranger, such as seeing which machines are on and off, start menus etc. This is the thread I created with RM Ranger functionality, and we're trying to replicate that as much as possible. http://www.edugeek.net/forums/network-classroom-management/178186-alternatives-rm-ranger.html

 

RM's tech sales said that CC did everything that Ranger did, but it doesn't. For example it doesn't do timed screenshots, and there is none of the RangerReact functionality. In fact the tech sales person why trying to sway me away from using it (!), because we weren't interested in the PC build functionality.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Gongalong

[HTCPCP]

CC4 can be brilliant, and can be really bad. it all depends on what you want to do really! Yes it does have its faults - especially with overloading older machines to make them unusable, when without the RM bloat they are fine. It's especially helpful in the way that I have managed to train some of the more technical teachers in schools to be able to reset passwords of students etc if I'm not on site etc.

 

As Norphy has said, it's not suitable for everyone - It tries to be, but as we all know, it does some things well, and some things not so well.

[steve_forbes]

Hi, Steve from RM here...

 

As @Norphy has articulated; your experience with CC4 is going to be related to whether you are comfortable using (or want to use) the standard set of tools that SCCM offers, or if you would prefer to have a management suite (CC4) over the top to help simplify some of the network management tasks. In essence with SCCM you start with a blank canvass that you can make completely your own, that does come with its own risks (takes time to get it right) but also has its benefits (completely flexible). CC4 comes at it from the other end of the spectrum and makes the network secure, which may be too restricted for some network managers (you could be spending some time removing restrictions) but it will certainly be safe.

 

With regards to costs; CC4 is always going to come out more expensive on a quote compared to SCCM, this is because you are paying for Microsoft server licences and then the additional CC4 software. However the cost comparison really comes down to whether you think having CC4 will help you to save time compared to managing SCCM on its own. Like @deano3693 mentioned we have also addressed our licencing model to help reduce that initial additional outlay.

 

Ultimately we can support you which ever route you take and we will be more than happy to articulate the pro’s and con’s to each option.

[Gongalong]

Hi Steve. As mentioned above, we wouldn't actually want the build features of CC, which are the features that are somewhat similar to CM. What we'd use is the security and user profile features, which are similar to LAN Ranger and Ranger Admin. The RM tech sales person seemed a bit taken aback by that, but I think it would still be really useful to us. Following the tech demo, I emailed the RM Sales person on Tuesday with some questions, and a request for an updated quote, but not heard back yet.

[steve_forbes]

@Gongalong I'll chase that up for you now, how you use the software is obviously completely up to you but there are some components that rely on others to work properly. I'll find out what's going on with the questions and quote and get someone to contact you asap.

Thanks

Steve

[Gongalong]

From what I could tell, the imaging part could be left alone, but I think the tech sales person was going to check that.

[AlanD]

We use RM CC4. I have often defended RM, but that is not to say their solution is panacea for everyone. I think its a "SAFE" solution for schools. It works. It still has some annoying faults/bugs and short comings. But that is not to say a Vanilla solution would be equally safe if well set up and managed - or indeed not without some problems. We often have teaching staff who come to us from other schools comment on how reliable the network is compared to the school they came from. (Sometimes - when I get in touch with their previous school the network manager tells me they have a brilliant network ...but it clearly wasn't the experience of their users....and there is a lesson there for all of us network managers).

 

However, I have now asked for quotes from suppliers to move away from RM. The massive, eye watering increases in support costs have tipped us over the edge. Support costs have gone from £3500 to £5,500 pa ; RM's antivirus and mail security has gone from £1200 pa to £3800 (!!). So I've started to plan not be an RM school by next year and first quotes rolling in look very tempting. And these price rises are over a period with practically no inflation, no wage increases (and I bet RM aren't paying their staff the extra money). It seems to me they are plugging a hole by asking their loyal customers to pay more. I required 4 replacement disk drives for server. RM wanted £400 each for the drives - which I can get from any other supplier for £200 - and they will be glad of the profit they make on them - and another £1000 for an engineer to fit them. And they won't fit the drives if I buy them independently. Frankly - all that is just taking the mickey. Does their greed know no bounds?

[nicholab]

Have you considered using sccm, salermainder soft, netsupport/impero to give you what you want?

[steve_forbes]

We use RM CC4. I have often defended RM, but that is not to say their solution is panacea for everyone. I think its a "SAFE" solution for schools. It works. It still has some annoying faults/bugs and short comings. But that is not to say a Vanilla solution would be equally safe if well set up and managed - or indeed not without some problems. We often have teaching staff who come to us from other schools comment on how reliable the network is compared to the school they came from. (Sometimes - when I get in touch with their previous school the network manager tells me they have a brilliant network ...but it clearly wasn't the experience of their users....and there is a lesson there for all of us network managers).

 

However, I have now asked for quotes from suppliers to move away from RM. The massive, eye watering increases in support costs have tipped us over the edge. Support costs have gone from £3500 to £5,500 pa ; RM's antivirus and mail security has gone from £1200 pa to £3800 (!!). So I've started to plan not be an RM school by next year and first quotes rolling in look very tempting. And these price rises are over a period with practically no inflation, no wage increases (and I bet RM aren't paying their staff the extra money). It seems to me they are plugging a hole by asking their loyal customers to pay more. I required 4 replacement disk drives for server. RM wanted £400 each for the drives - which I can get from any other supplier for £200 - and they will be glad of the profit they make on them - and another £1000 for an engineer to fit them. And they won't fit the drives if I buy them independently. Frankly - all that is just taking the mickey. Does their greed know no bounds?

 

Hi Alan,

 

I think my colleague James might have messaged you about the Support increase costs. It certainly seems like you have seen some higher than average increase in costs so I would like to investigate further - could you PM me your school details and I will make sure we look at it in detail.

 

Regards,

Steve

[Gongalong]

However, I have now asked for quotes from suppliers to move away from RM. The massive, eye watering increases in support costs have tipped us over the edge. Support costs have gone from £3500 to £5,500 pa ; RM's antivirus and mail security has gone from £1200 pa to £3800 (!!). So I've started to plan not be an RM school by next year and first quotes rolling in look very tempting. And these price rises are over a period with practically no inflation, no wage increases (and I bet RM aren't paying their staff the extra money). It seems to me they are plugging a hole by asking their loyal customers to pay more. I required 4 replacement disk drives for server. RM wanted £400 each for the drives - which I can get from any other supplier for £200 - and they will be glad of the profit they make on them - and another £1000 for an engineer to fit them. And they won't fit the drives if I buy them independently. Frankly - all that is just taking the mickey. Does their greed know no bounds?

We're only using RM for Ranger and Unify, so haven't had this cost issue... yet.

Have you considered using sccm, salermainder soft, netsupport/impero to give you what you want?

The plan is to use SCCM for deploying software, which RM have said may cause an issue with trying to use CC(4).

 

Not come across Salamander Soft before. What do you use them for? I can't immediately spot anything that would replace RM Ranger functionality.

 

Impero I'm wary of, as I have some friends that have had major issues with them, there was the poor handling of the security issue some months back, and I get frequently pestered by their Sales which is itself a turn off.

 

NetSupport, we'll definitely be using for their School product (RM rebadged their product for Ranger Remote). Their current deal is very attractive, so we'll probably for the whole suite of software, and then we can use that in the future if need be.

 

It's a shame there's nothing that has all of RM LAN Ranger's functionality, but c'est la vie!

[ReverentCreature]

Don't have it here and I miss it. The later versions were very customisable and the technical support was great. The company went through a bad patch during the recession but always maintained a good support team and customer service with our schools. When I left I had almost completely moved the school over to Windows 10.

[truebluesteve]

We use it here and its fine and while it does have its foibles its really well supported and takes away the need to tinker directly with AD or GPO's unless absolutely necessary. Its a very stable product these days and almost all our support calls are general Windows issues rather than CC4 specifically.

 

As for costs, we haven't seen ours increase much (if at all actually) and included in the support contract is a host of other stuff (Vanilla Windows servers, VMware, SCCM, O365 and so on) - we don't have money to employ specialist staff or the time to spend hours trying google solutions! We lost one of our DC's to data corruption (VMware/Veeam bug) about 18 months ago and they went to great lengths to help us sort it (including evenings and weekends). I don't think you can put a price on that sort of support. Just my experience though

[Gongalong]

Unfortunately we couldn't go with it, as it requires rebuilding the entire network from scratch with CC4.

[Shadow_Walker]

I just left a school which was CC4. Can't knock RM at all to be honest. They were always on the other end of the phone if something bad had happened and always were helpful on the helpdesk.

 

I have just moved jobs to a Vanilla network so a bit of a learning curve to what i was used to with RM. We took out a flex contract with them and never looked back. I would recommend them to anyone if they asked me.

[Snoochieboochies]

Unfortunately we couldn't go with it, as it requires rebuilding the entire network from scratch with CC4.

 

It is a big job, i think it took us 4-6 weeks during the summer when we upgraded all of the workstations from 3.5 to 4 in my previous school. That said, everything went very smoothly apart from some staff members coming in on the last week who stirred up a load of drama and trouble because we were too busy to help them with minor issues.