Bad electrics

[woodham]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42138[/ATTACH] this was our electrics when we moved in at Christmas

[woodham]

this was our electrics when we moved in at Christmas

[woodham]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42138[/ATTACH] this was our electrics when we moved in at Christmas [ATTACH=CONFIG]42139[/ATTACH] got to love rubber coated cables , yes that is bare cables that are live and buried in insulation and polystyrene as you can imagin I wasn't best pleased to find them

[woodham]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42138[/ATTACH] this was our electrics when we moved in at Christmas got to love rubber coated cables , yes that is bare cables that are live and buried in insulation and polystyrene as you can imagin I wasn't best pleased to find them

[3s-gtech]

Holy moly. The thumbnail looks like a terrifying, massive loft spider. The reality is actually worse. Lots of 2.5mm and 1mm twin-and-earth cable incoming then?

[tekins]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42138[/ATTACH] I wasn't best pleased to find them

 

On the other hand, I bet you were really pleased that you did find them! Before the place burned down.

[caffrey]

I had similar wiring in my circuits at home, It looks like old tinned copper stuff from the 60s

[elsiegee40]

 

Split off from Tesla's thread at his request as it was taking it off topic

[DalekSec]

When we moved into our current house the previous owner was a bit of a cowboy (not the cool horse back kind), had to get the whole house re-wired.

 

The wall lights were wired with RADIO WIRE!!!! .... which was then wrapped in.... NEWSPAPER!!!

 

I mean.... why? Just....why

[Andrew_C]

What are you worried about? The cables are clipped down...

 

I have also found microphone cable used to feed a double socket.

[AMLinington]

We found similar horrors when we bought our house. We uncover more every time we decorate. The most common is double plug sockets basically wired onto a length of wire with a plug on the end that is plugged into another socket - a sort of 'extension lead' screwed into the wall. We have sockets spurred off the lighting ring in the Kitchen - we can't keep more than half the bulbs in the light fittings alight at any one time or the fuse is tripped. They ran some overhead cables out of the wall of the house into the shed and terminated them in a non-waterproof box. It was a nightmare. We fed a new outdoor ring from the fusebox and our electrician said he'd cut the old wire off. So we tried to cut the wires (we can't work out where it's fed from indoors) and discovered it was still (somehow) live. Nearly killed LeHusband! We have these cables poking out the side of the house that we can't trace. We literally cannot find where they come from, how they got out the wall, or where they go to, so we can't get rid of them. We've had to encase them in something until we rip the kitchen out because we think they've been fed behind one of the false walls in the kitchen...

 

We plan to have an electrician install a new (separate) lighting and socket ring in the kitchen because the electrics in there are a mess.

 

DIY Is a nightmare. But I can sympathise - getting 'proper' tradespeople in to do things is prohibitively expensive. But it's catch-22 for the electricians. They HAVE to charge high prices because of the costs of training, insurance and running a business, but BECAUSE prices are high, they are pricing themselves out of work. So they have to put their prices up to survive.

Edited March 15, 2017 by AMLinington

[dry]

We've had to encase them in something until we rip the kitchen out because we think they've been fed behind one of the false walls in the kitchen...

Reminds me of my house. There's a light switch in the kitchen that's been very neatly installed in the side of a kitchen cabinet unit. There's been some sort of chipboard installed in the cabinet in lieu of conduit and, as much as it's a working solution, I'm sure it's not up to modern day building regs. Tbf the kitchen is 23+ years old and is well overdue for renewal.

[SpuffMonkey]

Oo - our garage is fed by a wire that appears out of the first floor back bedroom and hangs down over the outside loo - haven't managed to find out where that comes from...but it has been working OK for the last 20 odd years - hey ho!

[jinnantonnixx]

I found cloth-covered mains cable when I hacked off the walls in the bathroom.

 

Anyway, I changed the lights in the kitchen for a heavy array of suspended bulbs - loads of wiring, plus it was part of a loop so had to wire in the return. Trying to hold that lot up while wiring it in to the ceiling really tested my patience. They have those stupid chocks with screws. Ridiculous. Why why why don't lights come with spade connectors, like car electrics? Simple job to crimp a spade connector to a bare wire, then wiring new lights would be simple - just plug them in. There has to be a reason, but why?

[3s-gtech]

A sparky can be quite expensive, but it's worth it. Mortgage surveys on both house sales I've been involved in recently were greatly affected by the state of the wiring and the need for certification - the house I was selling had to have a full test and inspection despite being as built 15 years before. My new house was inspected and the electrics 'written off' due to a 1970 fuse board still being fitted. Obviously the safety aspect is critical too - luckily my new place had very little that was bodged or dodgy, just old and limited (one ring for the whole house, no cooker or shower cabling, that fuse box).

[Andrew_C]

There's a lot of rot being talked up to create work for electricians, so what if a fuse board was 70's? So long as it isn't damaged; it was safe then, no reason it isn't safe now. Circuit breakers, and RCDs are an improvement, but there is no requirement to change them, unless you are doing a major re-wire.

 

The bodgery a "professional" had done on Mrs_C's house was astounding.

 

You can get plug in ceiling roses.

[caffrey]

I found cloth-covered mains cable when I hacked off the walls in the bathroom.

 

Anyway, I changed the lights in the kitchen for a heavy array of suspended bulbs - loads of wiring, plus it was part of a loop so had to wire in the return. Trying to hold that lot up while wiring it in to the ceiling really tested my patience. They have those stupid chocks with screws. Ridiculous. Why why why don't lights come with spade connectors, like car electrics? Simple job to crimp a spade connector to a bare wire, then wiring new lights would be simple - just plug them in. There has to be a reason, but why?

 

I'd prefer WAGO type connectors (you could've possibly used them in your situation)- would make things a heap easier, I personally rewired my whole house lighting circuit using them

[CAM]

I dread to think what is behind my walls. I do know the signal for the satellite TV cuts out at random when the fridge/boiler/lights turn on. :/

 

I've already found the electrics for my sewer pump were bodged with a garden pump electrics box, a flooded sensor and miswired overflow prevention circuits.

Edited March 15, 2017 by CAM

[AMLinington]

A sparky can be quite expensive, but it's worth it. Mortgage surveys on both house sales I've been involved in recently were greatly affected by the state of the wiring and the need for certification - the house I was selling had to have a full test and inspection despite being as built 15 years before. My new house was inspected and the electrics 'written off' due to a 1970 fuse board still being fitted. Obviously the safety aspect is critical too - luckily my new place had very little that was bodged or dodgy, just old and limited (one ring for the whole house, no cooker or shower cabling, that fuse box).

 

When my sister bought her first house, they had a survey done and the surveyor found a rusty nail jammed into the fuseboard acting as a fuse. When he asked the occupants about it they said 'it kept tripping and we got sick of it. The nail isn't as sensitive as a fuse'.....

 

It didn't occur to them to try to find out WHY it was tripping in the first place (my money is on the fact they overloaded the sockets with obnoxious entertainment equipment).

 

The challenge in our house is that it was a 1950's jobbie. So when it was BUILT, the metal conduit and fabric-covered-wires were basically concreted into the wall when it was poured. So at some point, 'someone' has had to do a complete re-wire but because it's not possible to embed it in the walls, it runs all over the place in nonsensical randomness. Every now and again I'll come across bits of the 'old' wiring and we're never 100% sure if it's still live or not lol.

[3s-gtech]

As I said, safety is critical, and a modern RCD setup is better and safer than ELCBs and fuses. Yes fuses work, but when there's a better and safer alternative out there it should be adopted where possible. As I said, it's increasingly becoming an issue with house sales - some estate agents are expecting the house wiring to have an up to date inspection certificate now.

[IrritableTech]

Every now and again I'll come across bits of the 'old' wiring and we're never 100% sure if it's still live or not lol.

 

Buy a none contact detector - please!

[Andrew_C]

I've got one... and still can't find where the wiring to a defunct outside light (may or may not) be fed from. No power on the cable, but no idea why, or where it was once connected. Butt crimps on the ends, and tucked up into the eaves for now.

[Chris_]

The challenge in our house is that it was a 1950's jobbie. So when it was BUILT, the metal conduit and fabric-covered-wires were basically concreted into the wall when it was poured. So at some point, 'someone' has had to do a complete re-wire but because it's not possible to embed it in the walls, it runs all over the place in nonsensical randomness. Every now and again I'll come across bits of the 'old' wiring and we're never 100% sure if it's still live or not lol.

 

Are you sure it's not asbestos insulated cable?

[Seb1780]

Cards on the table - in my previous existance I ran my own business installing kitchens & bathrooms. I did electrical work and was qualified to undertake that work. My qualification is lapsed, as I'm no longer working in that arena, but I believe the advice below is still viable.

 

To an extent it is correct that if the wiring was compliant at the time of installation and no additional work has been carried out then there is no need to change things just for the sake of bringing it "up to date". Provided the cabling is secure and not degraded, the protective devices still work and the whole installation is safe being old is not a case for renewal. In fact for most domestic premises there is not even a requirement in the Wiring Regulations that they are inspected, although the NICEIC recommends every 10 years for owner-occupied and every 5 years for rented properties. Any work required as a result of an inspection should be based on the safety of the installation, not its age.

 

However, with a few exceptions, once any work is done on a circuit, or any additional circuits are installed, then the whole of that circuit has to be compliant with current regs. The "whole of the circuit" means from the feed from the meter to the point of use and includes things like consumer units (fuseboards), safety devices (fuses, RCD, RCBO), cabling, switches etc etc etc. The magnitude of the additional work required has been escalating in the past decade due to things like new wiring colours, the requirement (in most cases) to use RCDs rather than fuses and, most recently, the need for all consumer units to be fireproof.

 

Thus, a simple decision to move a socket may trigger a complete rewire of the house because the circuit will have to be extended because new sockets have to be at a certain height, and placed on an RCD, and that RCD housed in a fireproof consumer unit, which must now be placed in an "accessible location", with meter tails that have sufficient capacity, and a new earthing circuit to match the new load, and on and on and on.

 

Any decent sparky will explain all the work and why it's needed. If you think you are being ripped off get a second or third quote, or seek the input of one of the trade bodies (NICIEC was my trade body).

 

It is expensive to gain and maintain the skills and qualifications needed to do this work and given the potential for harm if things go wrong I believe the prices they charge are reasonable. But, if you are competant and capable of using the testing equipment (and being able to afford the £1000 it costs to buy it), you can do the work yourself then get the local council to certify it. But would you take that risk?

 

Finally, there is a big difference between Wiring Regulations and Part-P. The requirements for electrical wiring are laid out in BS 7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations 17th edition Amendment 3. These requirements apply to all fixed electrical wiring installations anywhere; schools, homes, offices, factories etc. Part-P of the building regulations requires that any new or modified installation meets the requirements of BS7671 and sets out what modification will trigger notification and certification requirements. But even if you do not have to notifiy and certifiy, all work must meet the requirements of BS7671.

[Andrew_C]

Are you sure it's not asbestos insulated cable?

Sounds more like VRI.