Apparently The New Fiver Isn't Vegetarian

[CAM]

The base used to make them contains trace amounts of tallow which is derived from animals. I guess vegans will be sticking to coins when all the notes eventually go polymer?

 

New five pound note: Not suitable for vegetarians - BBC News

 

I can picture the arguments with bemused till staff already....

[6Foot2]

Link: Amusing headlines and anecdotes

 

[BassTech]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12517/production/_92713057_capture7.jpg

 

Funny how all of these "outraged" people still have smartphones & access to the internet/twitter. Imagine how much pollution is generated just by twitter's data centers alone, and the damage that could potentially have on wildlife?? I suppose that doesn't matter though, because how else would they spew their thoughts to all their beloved followers

Edited November 29, 2016 by BassTech

[6Foot2]

@BassTech: Your attachment has gone missing.

 

[localzuk]

You gotta pick your battles really. Roads aren't vegetarian, for example, as animal byproducts end up in the tarmac IIRC. Realistically, most technology isn't, due to the land clearance needed for certain industry to operate, or the run off pollution from factories.

You have to pick your battles better.

[BassTech]

@BassTech: Your attachment has gone missing.

 

 

oops, fixed now (was just linking to the BBC screenshot of twitter)

[LincolnE]

Yeah, I'll admit this is a silly battle to try and fight, to be honest.

 

And as has been said, the poor conditions all the workers go through for phones/clothes/technology and all should also be taken into consideration, but people don't tend to mind that.

[Bompalompalomp]

As a vegetarian I'm not bothered its presence itself. It's unavoidable these days, with LCD screens/plastics and so many products that you cannot avoid using.

 

I am however bothered by the disregard for people. Allowing it to go into circulation before letting the public know, for example. And knowingly including something that will frustrate a sizeable demographic of people rather than going for one of the plenty alternatives. The presence of animal byproducts is usually unavoidable but the government could at least attempt to not help prop up the meat industry (one of the most harmful industries to ever exist, even if you're not a vegetarian you can agree with this) to cut costs. This especially coming from a government that has been claiming to be the greenest yet while really being the opposite.

 

It's not just vegetarians or vegans, by the way. (Some) strict Hindus and Muslims are forbidden from knowingly handling anything with beef/pork byproducts in.

 

I would like to remind people that living in a world where it is impossible to be 100% impactless doesn't mean you're a hypocrite or that you should stop "whining" when it's so easily avoidable. It's not hypocritical for a consumer to use a phone screen. But it is thoughtless of our government to not consider this and tell people now rather than before they produced it.

[sted]

I am however bothered by the disregard for people. Allowing it to go into circulation before letting the public know, for example.

i suspect nobody even thought about it its not something you eat and the some trace if animal produce somewhere in the process probably never occurred to anyone until asked the question directly (in the same way iirc nasa built some biodome years ago and couldnt account for where the o2(or was it co2) was going turns out concrete absorbs it for years architects know this but its of no consequence to them it was to nasa)

[localzuk]

When you consider the number of people who could be "affected" by this, it isn't an inconsiderable number. You're looking at about 3% who are vegetarian/vegan, 5% Muslim, about 1.5% Hindus etc... There will obviously be overlap in those groups, but you're looking at an easy 6-7% of the population, so potentially around 4 million people!

[witch]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12517/production/_92713057_capture7.jpg

 

Funny how all of these "outraged" people still have smartphones & access to the internet/twitter. Imagine how much pollution is generated just by twitter's data centers alone, and the damage that could potentially have on wildlife?? I suppose that doesn't matter though, because how else would they spew their thoughts to all their beloved followers

Er....I cant see how the pollution issue has anything much to do with this. I am a vegetarian and I think I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. I would have liked to have known first so that I could make an informed decision

I don't think your confrontational tone and inflammatory use of word such as "spew" helps in the least. Many people, not just vegetarians, will be affected by this.

[Bompalompalomp]

i suspect nobody even thought about it its not something you eat and the some trace if animal produce somewhere in the process probably never occurred to anyone until asked the question directly (in the same way iirc nasa built some biodome years ago and couldnt account for where the o2(or was it co2) was going turns out concrete absorbs it for years architects know this but its of no consequence to them it was to nasa)

 

It's not the first or the last time the government has completely neglected important demographics... One of the reasons the Bombay Rebellion happened was they gave Hindu and Muslim allies ammunition they had to bite to use that contained animal fat without telling them.

[CAM]

But we are talking trace quantities. That means extremely tiny amounts of product in an ingredient that only forms part of the five pound note. And it's a byproduct of the meat industry, the animal it was acquired from is dead anyway and probably on someone's plate by now. Refusing to touch a fiver won't change the animal's fate.

 

Just walking down the High Street exposes you to more animal by-products in five minutes than holding all the fivers in your life ever will. From the leather in your shoes and the wafting scent of chicken curry in the air to a fox savaging a squirrel in the corner of an alleyway, it's all around you. People complaining about meat traces of the tiniest amount in a piece of rectangular plastic are frankly doing it for the sake of complaining. Farming and agriculture for meat production has proven critical for humanity to get where it is and is part of the natural cycle and a part of daily life. Those who deliberately choose (religious or otherwise) to exempt themselves from that cycle do it off their own back and it's their problem.

 

/UnpopularTwoPence

[LeMarchand]

I find it odd that so many people (not just the people here) are worried about the religious implications when it seems that these days a large proportion of the populace love to denounce religion as something that has no place in modern society.

[LeMarchand]

/UnpopularTwoPence

 

*Wonders if this thread should be in "Politics" before it all kicks off*

[localzuk]

I find it odd that so many people (not just the people here) are worried about the religious implications when it seems that these days a large proportion of the populace love to denounce religion as something that has no place in modern society.

It doesn't have a place in modern society. People can denounce the ideas themselves, but the individuals that follow them should be able to carry on their lives as they choose, within the law.

 

I.E. Attack Islam, not a Muslim.

[BassTech]

Er....I cant see how the pollution issue has anything much to do with this. I am a vegetarian and I think I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. I would have liked to have known first so that I could make an informed decision

I don't think your confrontational tone and inflammatory use of word such as "spew" helps in the least. Many people, not just vegetarians, will be affected by this.

 

It's hypocritical, refusing to use the new £5 note because it's not vegetarian, but at the same time using products that are not vegetarian (smartphone production often uses gelatin, animal fat) to vent on twitter about it not being vegetarian, and then they go on about irony? It's nonsense!

 

And I wasn't trying to be confrontational or inflammatory, I'm also entitled to my opinion and I stand by my comment about people spewing on twitter, everything doesn't have to be taken as offensive.

[Bompalompalomp]

I find it odd that so many people (not just the people here) are worried about the religious implications when it seems that these days a large proportion of the populace love to denounce religion as something that has no place in modern society.

The same people bringing up the religious implication probably aren't the same ones denouncing religion. Additionaly, bringing up religious implications doesn't mean you are defending or agreeing with them. (But back to topic...)

[Hokalus]

With the look of it Australian, New Zealand, and Canadian (and likely everywhere else using polymer) notes also include tallow, as do various other products (plastic bags for example).

[LeMarchand]

It doesn't have a place in modern society. People can denounce the ideas themselves, but the individuals that follow them should be able to carry on their lives as they choose, within the law.

 

I.E. Attack Islam, not a Muslim.

...but the general tone of a lot of the internet is: people who are religious are ignorant idiots who are clinging to an untenable belief system which should be banned. How is this not attacking the person?

The same people bringing up the religious implication probably aren't the same ones denouncing religion. Additionaly, bringing up religious implications doesn't mean you are defending or agreeing with them. (But back to topic...)

I'd disagree, a huge proportion of the posters on most of the boards I go to are vehemently anti-religion. It just seems that in this case it suits their narrative to care about those views.

 

I'd also argue we're vaguely on topic as their non-consumption of meat is based on their religion.

[localzuk]

...but the general tone of a lot of the internet is: people who are religious are ignorant idiots who are clinging to an untenable belief system which should be banned. How is this not attacking the person?

 

Discussing an ideology and saying it is wrong is a very different thing to saying its followers are idiots. I personally don't say they're idiots, but suffering from a form of mass delusion/mental illness. That isn't an attack on any person, it is a perception based on behaviour. The ideology is still a nonsense and the real thing that is at fault, however I don't look at the followers and think "you're broken, therefore your views don't count". They do still count, and they should be listened to, whilst at the same time society should be looking for a solution to the problem that is "religion".

 

So, those people don't want to have contact with animal products, and that is their right.

[LeMarchand]

Discussing an ideology and saying it is wrong is a very different thing to saying its followers are idiots. I personally don't say they're idiots, but suffering from a form of mass delusion/mental illness. That isn't an attack on any person, it is a perception based on behaviour. The ideology is still a nonsense and the real thing that is at fault, however I don't look at the followers and think "you're broken, therefore your views don't count". They do still count, and they should be listened to, whilst at the same time society should be looking for a solution to the problem that is "religion".

 

So, those people don't want to have contact with animal products, and that is their right.

You may say that, but if I could be bothered to find a religious "discussion" on here I'm pretty sure that I could find many examples of the sort of thinking that I'm talking about. (...and now we are veering off topic!)

[witch]

Back to topic...

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is, as a vegetarian, i try to avoid all animal products as much as is possible. I was surprised that a modern product was produced using tallow. But so be it.

As for having to follow the herd (! see what I did there) because we are basically farmers - well , that just isn't true anymore. This countries wealth mostly came from the Industrial Revolution.

I have my reasons for being a vegetarian, that I can happily explain if anyone wants to hear.

The argument that "you might as well use it, it is dead already" doesn't really work either. Yes, it is dead, but if people DON'T use it then another one might not be killed

[CAM]

Don't want to eat beef? Then don't eat it and pick a salad. Or eat the burger anyway, you have the right to choose and it's down to you.

 

Don't want to wear leather? Then don't wear leather. Or wear a jacket anyway, you have the right to choose and it's down to you.

 

Don't want to be seen in public or just cover yourself up? Then wear a veil or whatever it's called. Or don't, you have the right to choose and it's down to you (and you alone, this country has no law requiring you to cover up no matter what someone else says).

 

Don't want to handle a five pound note? Wear gloves. Or just pick it up and put it in your wallet, you have the right to choose and it's down to you.

 

I personally won't drink alcohol before the rather arbritary time of midday and won't drink at all if driving much later in the evening even though it will probably be OK by then. Why? Because I choose to and that's my own lifestyle and beliefs.

[Bompalompalomp]

Back to topic...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is, as a vegetarian, i try to avoid all animal products as much as is possible. I was surprised that a modern product was produced using tallow. But so be it.

As for having to follow the herd (! see what I did there) because we are basically farmers - well , that just isn't true anymore. This countries wealth mostly came from the Industrial Revolution.

I have my reasons for being a vegetarian, that I can happily explain if anyone wants to hear.

The argument that "you might as well use it, it is dead already" doesn't really work either. Yes, it is dead, but if people DON'T use it then another one might not be killed

 

Couldn't agree more. I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 years old for my own variety of reasons, most of which come down to trying to have as little negative impact on the world as possible. When I have to wear leather I buy it second hand (motorcycle gear) only. I try to avoid animal byproducts when possible or at least when they directly contribute to the industry. But one person can't be infallible. I still wear leather sometimes, I have animals that need feeding meat, I still contribute to the dairy and egg industries by not being vegan. I sometimes buy Unilever products. I use roads and computers and other technologies that not only use animal byproducts but indirectly support companies with awful human rights violations. I can't avoid all of these things, but it would be nice to know!

 

The slaughter industry is one of the most harmful industries in existence no matter what way you slice it and there's nothing wrong with criticising the government for helping prop it up. Yes, no animal did to make these notes (and yes, it is only trace amounts) but when they print these in bulk it adds up and the money still goes toward the industry.

 

It's not just something small for people to complain about because you read a 140-character tweet from somebody who's upset that you don't like. You can criticise "triggered" vegans all you want, but you can't deny that it's a very valid criticism of an approach toward production that could easily be made more ethical but isn't because it raises profit margins.