Paxton Wireless & Fire Alarm Door Release

[klop]

Hi, we're currently having some Paxton Net2 door controllers put in.

 

We are hoping to use the software to control the doors, including the software set to release doors activated by the fire alarm.

 

We can go wireless or wired, what do you use?

 

Guess I'm just a little worried the wireless link could fail easier than a wired meaning the doors wont release in the event of the alarm going off.

 

THanks.

[ITJS2015]

Wired all day you only need one cable iv been told from your closest door to your fire panel which communicates with all the doors.

 

I take it all of your doors are connected through RJ45 to a switch ?

 

I am going through this process myself with a school which I support, is there anything else you need to know ?

[klop]

Our understanding is we can wire from the fire alarm siren/speaker thing direct to one of the doors. This will then send the alert to the software to open all doors?

 

Did you try the wireless? We've cost issues and it looks like the wireless might be cheaper to install for us.

 

Thanks

[MartinRouterKing]

The only problem with doing this is that it does not meet fire regulations. As if the server goes down or a switch then it will close all the doors. I have just became a Paxton advanced installer and I am currently installing a system at my school.

[klop]

The only problem with doing this is that it does not meet fire regulations. As if the server goes down or a switch then it will close all the doors. I have just became a Paxton advanced installer and I am currently installing a system at my school.

 

Thanks Martin, can I ask how do you trigger your doors to open in the event of the fire alarm?

[MartinRouterKing]

Up to now we only have 2 doors on our system and we have to normally closed relays coming from the fire panel. But they are really close to the fire panel.

 

We are installing more which are far away from the fire panel and we are going to try and come off the fire alarm sounder as this would meet regulation.

 

If your building is old and has a emergency break glass door release and a push to exit button by a door we have been told you don't have to link these doors as they where fitted before the fire regulations changed.

 

It only has to link to the fire alarm if you are fitting to new doors.

[FN-GM]

Our Paxton server has a link to the fire alarm. The server then releases the doors. Is that allowed?

 

Thanks

[ITJS2015]

Incase of an emergency if you lose connection to a switch or server then there should be a break glass for your door as there is a battery held within the magnet which tells you if its open or closed.

 

I have not had it done wireless as iv been told its not the way forward, I wouldn't recommend that when the fire alarm goes off that your doors automically close they should only close if they can be pushed open during this fire alarm process.

[MartinRouterKing]

@FN-GM from what I have been told by a fire inspector it is not allowed unless all you network cables are fire proof but this will also stop working if the network is down or the server is on fire.

 

I was told also that on new doors you need both a break glass and exit button but they also must be linked to the fire alarm.

 

If it's an old door and already has a break glass and exit button but no link to the fire alarm then that is fine as that used to be the standards before regulations changed.

 

My argument is that if the fire alarm goes wrong or the Paxton box went on fire then of course the door would then close again unless it's a fail safe lock or a mag lock.

 

My next argument is if the fire alarm goes off and then the doors open the building won't be secure unless there is a lock on the door.

 

Also we have a ASD base. If a fire alarm goes off and the doors open there is a chance a child could get out.

 

How hard is it to press an exit button or break glass? Children would always be with staff anyway.

[FN-GM]

@FN-GM from what I have been told by a fire inspector it is not allowed unless all you network cables are fire proof but this will also stop working if the network is down or the server is on fire.

 

I was told also that on new doors you need both a break glass and exit button but they also must be linked to the fire alarm.

 

If it's an old door and already has a break glass and exit button but no link to the fire alarm then that is fine as that used to be the standards before regulations changed.

 

My argument is that if the fire alarm goes wrong or the Paxton box went on fire then of course the door would then close again unless it's a fail safe lock or a mag lock.

 

My next argument is if the fire alarm goes off and then the doors open the building won't be secure unless there is a lock on the door.

 

Also we have a ASD base. If a fire alarm goes off and the doors open there is a chance a child could get out.

 

How hard is it to press an exit button or break glass? Children would always be with staff anyway.

 

Do you have any documentation to back this up please? I can then take that back to the PFI people.

 

Thanks

[MartinRouterKing]

I am waiting for this as an email off our fire officer. I have not read the fire regulations I have just asked our fire officer.

[MatthewL]

The fire alarm interface is wired directly into the controller not the server on the installations I have done in the past so when its triggered it opens all doors.

 

We had to change this in a mental health ward where there were break glass points in strategic staff locations that could be broken in case of fire to release doors but not if patients broke the fire alarm.

 

I can clarify as I am due to speak to my security bloke who does Paxton for the LA.

[Edu-IT]

If it's an old door and already has a break glass and exit button but no link to the fire alarm then that is fine as that used to be the standards before regulations changed.

When you say old door, do you mean if the system is being installed onto an existing door as opposed to a complete new door and Paxton system?

 

Edit: I think I understand. By new door, you mean new Paxton installation?

Edited July 20, 2016 by Edu-IT

[MatthewL]

My contact said although the fire alarm is connected to a net2 controller it is reliant on the server software running but the doors should be connected to what is called a fire IO unit so when the fire alarm trips the magnets on the door release.

 

Hope this helps.

[MartinRouterKing]

When you say old door, do you mean if the system is being installed onto an existing door as opposed to a complete new door and Paxton system?

 

Edit: I think I understand. By new door, you mean new Paxton installation?

 

Yes that's correct. However I asked if we had an old system and I replace it with a new one do I need to link it into the fire alarm. The answer was as long as I only change the controller and the reader and I don't touch the lock, exit button or break glass it still meets the old regulation.

[MartinRouterKing]

The Paxton controller can link to the fire alarm to sense when the alarm goes off this will send the alert to all other controllers and tell the doors to open.

 

However the correct way to set it up is to have a normally closed relay from the fire alarm and link it to the live on the door lock. So that when the fire alarm goes off it cuts the pose to the door lock.

 

You can use Paxton compact relays to do this. You can also wire it so that if you have a fail secure lock when the fire alarm goes off it will put power to the lock to make it open.

 

I am fitting my first few systems on Friday once school closes. These are the first installs I have done since becoming an installer so I will let you all know how it goes.

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by MartinRouterKing

[Wubbalubbadub]

I'm having this done during the holiday too..

I am not sure if I should put it on its own network or not. What do you guys think? Is it ok on the same lan? Or should I have it on its own VLan/network

[crc-ict]

We have a Net2 system here, and we use the RS485 dedicated wiring bus between controllers.

 

We then have a fire alarm interface connected to one of the door controllers, which in the event of a fire alarm signals the other door controllers to unlock. This is not reliant on server-side software, just the integrity of the RS485 line between the controllers. Our doors are all on mag locks anyway, in a failsafe configuration, so in the event of a fire destroying cabling or the controller, power to the magnet is lost and the door unlocks anyway. Our fire officer is happy with that arrangement.

[localzuk]

We have a Net2 system here, and we use the RS485 dedicated wiring bus between controllers.

 

We then have a fire alarm interface connected to one of the door controllers, which in the event of a fire alarm signals the other door controllers to unlock. This is not reliant on server-side software, just the integrity of the RS485 line between the controllers. Our doors are all on mag locks anyway, in a failsafe configuration, so in the event of a fire destroying cabling or the controller, power to the magnet is lost and the door unlocks anyway. Our fire officer is happy with that arrangement.

 

This is the same for us. The vast bulk of our setup uses RS485. The controllers which are connected via our LAN have their own fire links in place as well. So, the entire system releases when the fire alarm goes off, regardless of the status of the server.

[klop]

We've a few doors installed with Paxton but with the older stand-alone units. Each is wired to a fire alarm sounder which releases the door - they're also mag-locks so lack of power releases the doors too.

 

We've just had one door installed with a Net2 wireless nano controller. We cannot wire the fire alarm to alert the software via this as the wireless controllers does not have this capability. This door is wired direct to a fire alarm sounder though so will release if the alarm sounds.

 

So, we're now looking at wired but we're on a very tight budget.

 

Ideally we want to add mag-locks to three of our corridor doors. We cannot afford to do all the classrooms, but these corridor doors will stop the pupils roaming around the majority of our high school.

 

The plan is to change a stand-alone unit on our front door to a wired Net2 Plus controller box and add a link from the Fire Control Unit. The three new installs would then be wired (using Net2 Plus controllers) and opened by the software should the fire alarm trigger it. The three doors will not be wired together.

I understand the Net2 Plus controllers are POE? So the plan is to use that so then, (and as someone else has suggested) should the wiring fail the door will release due to lack of power. Will this be ok?

 

We could possibly add a second wired Net2 Plus controller in place of an existing stand-alone controller. This is wired to a fire alarm sounder and would provide an additional connection to link the fire alarm and the software. I appreciate the sounders aren't as good to use but this would be in addition to our other controller wired to the main Fire Control Unit.

 

Our alternate option is to pay in the region of £300 I'm told for each door to be individually linked to a fire alarm sounder!

[ColinP]

We have ours hard wired to the nearest net2 to the fire alarm sytem, that feeds all the other units, we also have emergency exit buttons on all the external doors aswell - these could have been left as they were but watching the kids crash into them everyday we thought they could do with a little help in an emergency

[klop]

We changed our wireless to wired in the end - much better.

 

We're a very small school so very few doors but our front door is now wired direct to the fire alarm panel and a classroom door is wired to a fire alarm sounder for redundancy.

 

great system, working really well.

 

Even emails myself, the site manager and the head teacher if the fire alarm goes off - which is more than our fire alarm does!

[Edu-IT]

Even emails myself, the site manager and the head teacher if the fire alarm goes off - which is more than our fire alarm does!

Would you not hear it, anyway?