Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[sonofsanta]

I would like to say that Microsoft can't be so stupid, but the way they pulled Shape the Future at zero notice after running it for just long enough to make its way into everyone's budgetary plans... I'm going to assume the worst, for now.

 

We may go perpetual Windows 10 in Summer 2017 if the figures quoted above are correct--and the implication from the DfE document was that all the discount would disappear, so that price doesn't seem unbelievable.

 

I'm sure there will be a cloud equivalent, priced to pull us in, but I don't want to run everything in the cloud. I don't mind running my email in the cloud on Office 365, because email is inherently an internet thing anyway, but a domain controller isn't. They're clearly not equivalent.

[gshaw]

The key here is that Microsoft need to clarify what's happening. Saying "we're going to be withdrawing this" without saying what's going to be coming afterwards is ridiculous. Schools like to know what's coming, so they can plan ahead. Rolling out a new OS can be a 2+ year process, for example!

 

The reality will be - if we can't get clarity sooner rather than later, it would not be surprising if a number of schools move away from MS technologies.

 

Exactly, we're planning VM host replacement and if licensing is going to jump up that much we may as well stick with VMware and move other services away from MS where we can.

 

Unless this licensing hike comes with a crazy cheap Azure discount it's hard to see how MS products can remain viable in education.

 

 

I'm sure there will be a cloud equivalent, priced to pull us in, but I don't want to run everything in the cloud. I don't mind running my email in the cloud on Office 365, because email is inherently an internet thing anyway, but a domain controller isn't. They're clearly not equivalent.

 

You say that but Azure AD join is out there now and MDM is being moved into O365 so that migration is already underway.

 

The ones that are the real killers for us are all the back-office systems that run on SQL and Windows. That's going to be a big shift and if MS pull the rug out from under us you'd have to wonder how many people will move away completely rather than go into Azure due to lack of trust alone.

Edited February 2, 2016 by gshaw

[CyberNerd]

Reducing the price when people have signed up to another program is one thing... hiking the price for everyone that has already invested is quite another

 

That isn't the case: They are not putting the cost of the contract up mid-term; they removing the discount on new contracts which is precisely what they did with TAP.

[Gibson335]

If you put together the announcement about huge savings for schools, the MoU details and references to local servers and on premises licensing, their stated move towards developing for the cloud, the end of current discounts, then the assumption has to be that pricing will only be favourable if a cloud agreement is part of the deal. I'm just not seeing any other way to read that document.

[TechMonkey]

The key here is that Microsoft need to clarify what's happening. Saying "we're going to be withdrawing this" without saying what's going to be coming afterwards is ridiculous. Schools like to know what's coming, so they can plan ahead. Rolling out a new OS can be a 2+ year process, for example!

 

The reality will be - if we can't get clarity sooner rather than later, it would not be surprising if a number of schools move away from MS technologies.

 

This is my view. If our worst fears are confirmed, even if the cloud idea is true, we need to start planning now. We run Sept to Sept budget, so I am planning 18 months in advance. We have plans now that we are budgeting for that use MS technologies, if these become uneconomical then we need to either abandon them or re-cost. We have just started spinning up SCOM so if we no longer have access to that we need to look at an alternative and stop pumping time and effort into it now. If we need to move to Azure I either need to start getting up to speed on how to migrate, the implications and limitations now or start looking at companies that will help. I need to run problems such as Data Protection past the Governors as I know they are not happy about storing our data in the cloud if it leaves our borders, Safe Harbor or not.

 

There is no sticking our heads in the sand and hoping MS are going to be benevolent and pull out a wonderful costing plan at the last minute or provide a wonderful cloud solution. This is a clear and present danger

[sted]

Playing devils advocate here

 

If windows 10 really is the "last windows version" do we need ees for windows (office I cant see NOT being some sort of cloud based license long term) is it as much of an issue as we think, as one of the main benefits of ees is the ability to pick your os and standardise not an issue in a few years when every device has a win 10 sticker on it(yes in reality this may take years). New pcs will come with windows 10 (and id imagine if ees does die education will be available as an oem "sticker" like pro) so you will be licensed for the os anyway.

 

You can get "free" office 2013 (possibly 2016) via free office 365 anyway just means users will need to be signed in to an office 365 account (im not sure that's a bad thing).

 

I honestly think the days of the managed domain are numbered and users/ms/google etc will more and more push towards byod type solutions where all we offer is network/internet connection and rdp for legacy apps (and support for their cheap rubbish device). Going forwards I suspect ms et all se the future being log into your device with your school email address and via 365/azure get access to your cloud stuff there really isn't much if anything hosted locally anymore

[ozydave]

Our FTE count is 470 [emoji32]

 

Good god Your screwed [emoji19]

[Achandler]

Although I agree that Office365 may be a way forward, MS will be pushing it and you can use Office 2016 etc if you have an Office 365 subscription, you can move home drives to OneDrive etc (we were planning too). I am willing to embrace moving in this direction more, however to do that you need to know Office365 costs from 2018 onwards, it is free now as part of the MoU. If it is going to be no longer free, then you need to know if you are working with paying a subscription based on FTE or on students access because thats a massive difference. Again you need to know the costs involved, for example, Business Premier is £90 a year currently. Based on FTE thats workable, based on Students and its ridiculous, but MS aren't able to tell us long term plans there either, which is where the issue is.

[gshaw]

I honestly think the days of the managed domain are numbered and users/ms/google etc will more and more push towards byod type solutions where all we offer is network/internet connection and rdp for legacy apps (and support for their cheap rubbish device). Going forwards I suspect ms et all se the future being log into your device with your school email address and via 365/azure get access to your cloud stuff there really isn't much if anything hosted locally anymore

 

This is how I see it going as well, looks like MS are abandoning their own "hybrid cloud" mantra and trying to get everything on subscription via Azure \ O365.

[PrimaryNetMan]

It does look like Microsoft are looking to move schools down the per pupil subscription route, especially if the new Minecraft: Education Edition is anything to go by. Frequently Asked Questions - Minecraft Education Edition Why allow schools to licence 30 machines in an IT Suite when you can licence 600 pupils every year.

[sted]

This is how I see it going as well, looks like MS are abandoning their own "hybrid cloud" mantra and trying to get everything on subscription via Azure \ O365.

 

from their point of view it makes sense. We all know you can pirate windows its a lot harder to pirate a service

[gshaw]

It does look like Microsoft are looking to move schools down the per pupil subscription route, especially if the new Minecraft: Education Edition is anything to go by. Frequently Asked Questions - Minecraft Education Edition Why allow schools to licence 30 machines in an IT Suite when you can licence 600 pupils every year.

 

Always comes down to money doesn't it, although if MS push this too much they may end up forcing many into the arms of competitors instead

[jhothersall]

Sounds like a good idea the logging in but you can only login to 5 machines and then you need to deactivate each one, I hope im not right but I think this is the case ...

[gshaw]

Sounds like a good idea the logging in but you can only login to 5 machines and then you need to deactivate each one, I hope im not right but I think this is the case ...

 

At an O365 deployment session at Future Decoded they mentioned that the Office 365 apps have a shared computer deployment option that doesn't count against the 5 copies. Should be a recording of the session somewhere that describes it in more detail.

[Michael]

This is an interesting discussion, but what immediately comes to mind is why are Microsoft offering Windows 10 for free to Joe Public from Windows 7, 8 or 8.1, yet are provisionally contemplating increasing prices for corporate users? It doesn't quite make sense to me.

 

Seeing as Windows 10 is the last Microsoft OS, long-term the revenue from this will potentially drop off considerably. End users may be using varying builds, but it's still Windows 10. Once the Windows 10 market share reaches its peek and Windows XP and Windows 7 drop off the radar, then what?

 

Cloud services of course make a lot of sense - paying on demand, but it has to be the right price. I suspect Microsoft are simply going to change the licensing model, but then there's also hybrid users - for example, using Google services, yet still using Windows 10 on the desktop. Just because you're using Windows 10 may not necessarily mean you want to use O365, so this is something definitely worth thinking about.

 

I think there's a very big risk that if you integrate all services too tightly - with an you're either all in or all out, it won't go down well with a lot of big customers. Flexibility is certainly key as everyone's requirements are different.

[sted]

This is an interesting discussion, but what immediately comes to mind is why are Microsoft offering Windows 10 for free to Joe Public from Windows 7, 8 or 8.1, yet are provisionally contemplating increasing prices for corporate users? It doesn't quite make sense to me.

 

Seeing as Windows 10 is the last Microsoft OS, long-term the revenue from this will potentially drop off considerably. End users may be using varying builds, but it's still Windows 10. Once the Windows 10 market share reaches its peek and Windows XP and Windows 7 drop off the radar, then what?

 

Cloud services of course make a lot of sense - paying on demand, but it has to be the right price. I suspect Microsoft are simply going to change the licensing model, but then there's also hybrid users - for example, using Google services, yet still using Windows 10 on the desktop. Just because you're using Windows 10 may not necessarily mean you want to use O365, so this is something definitely worth thinking about.

 

I think there's a very big risk that if you integrate all services too tightly - with an you're either all in or all out, it won't go down well with a lot of big customers. Flexibility is certainly key as everyone's requirements are different.

 

if I had to guess long term windows 10 will be free to users (maybe not big oems) and ms will make money from online services so office 365/anti virus-malware etc and use windows as a hook to get people to buy into that

[Michael]

if I had to guess long term windows 10 will be free to users (maybe not big oems) and ms will make money from online services so office 365/anti virus-malware etc and use windows as a hook to get people to buy into that

 

I'd agree with you - I often wonder how much longer Microsoft can make money from Office too. For example, upgrading users from Word 2010 > Word 2016, I've had very few issues reported, as it's practically identical interface wise. I do appreciate however the inner workings, security and standards will of course have improved, but most users won't appreciate this

[sted]

I'd agree with you - I often wonder how much longer Microsoft can make money from Office too. For example, upgrading users from Word 2010 > Word 2016, I've had very few issues reported, as it's practically identical interface wise. I do appreciate however the inner workings, security and standards will of course have improved, but most users won't appreciate this

 

tbh from a usage point of view with office (ignoring the 2007/10 interface change) what changed usefully since office 95(apart from auto complete for excel functions/formulas and office 365 integration) you use regularly?

[Michael]

Again I agree - minor changes/improvements, but nothing to write home about. These changes could have been included in a Service Pack.

[Vlad_the_Emailer]

Reducing the price when people have signed up to another program is one thing... hiking the price for everyone that has already invested is quite another

 

But that's the way that works best. The real skill is making sure that the cost is low enough to ensure that paying the increased rate is less traumatic than backing out so you'll just stump up the difference. History is littered with dodgy software licencing deals which is why we don't sign up for anything we can't easily ditch.

[Dos_Box]

*UPDATE*

 

I'll call a halt to any posted questions you might have at 14:30 today and then get the list off to Microsoft.

Once answered I'll post them up, so get them in whilst you can.

[Bezza49]

Microsoft putting prices up by 14-19% on OVS/EES on July 1st 2016

And again on July 1st 2017

And again on July 1st 2018

 

So best thing to do is to sign a 3-year agreement before 1st July 2016 which takes you to mid-2019 with the best possible price.

 

By 2018 Microsoft will be running their Cloud Transition Agreement which is what their ambitions for Education are to get every school onto.

 

If you wait until 2018 you will end up paying a lot more in the meantime. The most cost effective solution is to sign a 3-year agreement before July, and then plan ahead for 2019 changes - by which time everything should be more understood!

 

If anybody needs any further info, I'm happy to help.

 

Craig

[sparkeh]

Microsoft putting prices up by 14-19% on OVS/EES on July 1st 2016

And again on July 1st 2017

And again on July 1st 2018

 

So best thing to do is to sign a 3-year agreement before 1st July 2016 which takes you to mid-2019 with the best possible price.

 

By 2018 Microsoft will be running their Cloud Transition Agreement which is what their ambitions for Education are to get every school onto.

 

If you wait until 2018 you will end up paying a lot more in the meantime. The most cost effective solution is to sign a 3-year agreement before July, and then plan ahead for 2019 changes - by which time everything should be more understood!

 

If anybody needs any further info, I'm happy to help.

 

Craig

Sounds about right

[caffrey]

I've always thought that eventually domains would move to the cloud, 3 years ago I posed this question http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/108761-domains-slowly-becoming-thing-past.html

At this point if it's too expensive I can see me pushing to move to google apps and chromebooks / boxes as they are a lot cheaper with hosted MIS etc.

[gshaw]

Microsoft putting prices up by 14-19% on OVS/EES on July 1st 2016

And again on July 1st 2017

And again on July 1st 2018

 

So best thing to do is to sign a 3-year agreement before 1st July 2016 which takes you to mid-2019 with the best possible price.

 

By 2018 Microsoft will be running their Cloud Transition Agreement which is what their ambitions for Education are to get every school onto.

 

If you wait until 2018 you will end up paying a lot more in the meantime. The most cost effective solution is to sign a 3-year agreement before July, and then plan ahead for 2019 changes - by which time everything should be more understood!

 

If anybody needs any further info, I'm happy to help.

 

Craig

 

Any ideas what this Transition Agreement has in mind for back-end systems? We can guess the future of Office \ Windows to some extent but what are MS expecting we're going to do with our servers in the short-medium term?