CyberNerd Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Looking at their websites they only employ a small to medium number of network engineers (40-50 on average). Surely this won't cover a programme of this scale across the UK (??) unless everything is the same....
GrumbleDook Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Because the staff are already out there on the ground. This still seems to be one of the common misconceptions, that the company with the contract supply all teh staff from fresh and you are out of a job. *You* are the person doing stuff in the school ... they do the manglement, etc ... the things that people are concerned about (and rightly so) are that your job will change, that the school will not have the freedom to do some of the things it could do when you were directly employed by them and that there will be a greater long term cost.
Pearcey Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 unless everything is the same.... You mean that they will only manage a strict number of projects within the programme at any one time, thus keeping the numbers (40-50 people) stable? If you do mean that, then surely this will put extra pressure on the programme as a whole to get completed on time and to budget? Apologies if I've misread / misunderstood your post.
muppet Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Does anyone have any information on which Phase Oxfordshire is in (11 I think)? Rough timescales would be nice. I've contacted the LEA to try and get some info as there is little, if any, specific up to date info on 'Tinternet', but the only info they could (would) supply was that there was something on the Becta website a while ago......but it's not there now!!! Brilliant. I would suspect that it is a foregone conclusion that RM gets the deal, especially as they've been awarded the MLE contract for the next ? years....but obviously a tendering process will have to be carried out....providing that there's still money around to invest and that BSF hasn't fallen by the wayside in favour of another well thought out money saving scheme!!!
CyberNerd Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 You mean that they will only manage a strict number of projects within the programme at any one time, thus keeping the numbers (40-50 people) stable? If you do mean that, then surely this will put extra pressure on the programme as a whole to get completed on time and to budget? Apologies if I've misread / misunderstood your post. I meant that if the MSP keeps all hardware/software identical on all of the schools they manage, then the change management process only needs to be done once for all schools - rather than each time for every school/software. As GD says - the MSP will still need monkeys on the ground to change toner and to follow the procedures laid out by the 40-50 tech staff.
localzuk Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I meant that if the MSP keeps all hardware/software identical on all of the schools they manage, then the change management process only needs to be done once for all schools - rather than each time for every school/software. As GD says - the MSP will still need monkeys on the ground to change toner and to follow the procedures laid out by the 40-50 tech staff. They couldn't do that, as each school can have separate demands... Also, as GrumbleDook said, they may only have 50 staff *now* but when we're all TUPEd over, they will have us lot too...
Pearcey Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 They couldn't do that, as each school can have separate demands... Also, as GrumbleDook said, they may only have 50 staff *now* but when we're all TUPEd over, they will have us lot too... Localz, you raise a good point here. So, am I right in thinking that additional to their 40-50 staff, the likes of RM, Ramesys etc will TUPE over existing school staff who already have the knowledge of the existing networks etc?
CyberNerd Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 am I right in thinking that additional to their 40-50 staff, the likes of RM, Ramesys etc will TUPE over existing school staff who already have the knowledge of the existing networks etc? ... it depends on the local contract that has been negotiated by the LEA. Part of the TUPE regulations mean that the employer must disclose any significant changes to the workforce before the transfer. they will likely say how many techs they intend on leaving at each school. but there won't be any existing network, the MSP will put in their own system, the school has little choice in that Q50 Dr Pugh: An individual school cannot make a choice by itself, can it? Mr Byles: It is possible for a school to opt not to be part of the managed service. It is unusual for that to take place. An alternative procurement case has to be put forward and judged as value for money for that to succeed. It would not be right to say either that this is the province of very large providers in ICT. There are 16 ICT providers in building schools for the future at the moment. One of the distinguishing features is that none of them is very large. Uncorrected Evidence 274 1
steve Posted March 15, 2009 Author Posted March 15, 2009 Sandwell - Agilisys - val unknown wiki updated
KarlGoddard Posted March 15, 2009 Posted March 15, 2009 as time goes on, and BSF will be (probably anyway) imposed on us, I'm actually beginning to look at as an opportunity for me / my career. I'm on my top pay scale now, can do the job blindfolded and I'm beginning to get itchy feet, well actually beginning to feel frustrated with the lack of opportunity within the school. I really do think that my school will suffer as me and the boss (sahmeepee on here) do an amazing job as its only us two looking after 1800 kids and almost 700 desktops. But if the school can't refuse the potential offer of a significant refurb - I totally understand. New school vs (potentially) inferior IT infrastructure / support. If I was the Head it would be a no brainer. So perhaps, in 15 months time, I'll be out of a job or that my role has changed so much it's effectively put me out of a job, or conversely RM may provide me with the training / career development I'm yearning for. It's bit of a risk but this may be the opportunity / kick up the arse an old fart (even though I do look younger than Tony ) needs. Even the thought of having to possibly compete for my job next year has given me a renewed impetus to get my PRINCE2 and Itil certs - so that's at least one positive. Every man for himself!
andyriach Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 The IT contract for North Lincolnshire was awarded last Friday to: Mass Consultants Ltd (KnowledgeSpace) part of the May Gurney Consortium Andy Riach Network Manager Brumby Engineering College
chosenmen Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 As you know from a post above we have Civica here. We are looking for a 5 year completion time on the final School . Apart from the possible change in Government and the possibility in advancing Depression it is all going ahead. We have had a meeting with the Head who knows nothing concrete at the moment apart from the obvious takeover of our jobs and the Ground staff. He wants to keep the team here but even though we will probably have a massive IT infrastructure the advances in slimming down the system will mean we may not all stay on site. First thought is we provide a very good service here (we think). After the pride bit is gone, we may have opurtunities if we act soon to continue within the School in other roles as far as i can make out, whatever they may be, or maybe as posted above, a chance for career advancement with another company ie Civica. Our concern at the moment is job security (im not getting any younger) pension and years service to the School. After all it is a new contract. Oh yeah and wages? Pay cuts? Being interviewed for your own job? ect ect. That all seems a bit of a worry to us. Anyway it could all happen sooner rather than later. Once all is set up off site, alot of requirements like the new VLE ect , it could easily be in place before the the schools changes so we may see things happen a wee bit earlier. It would be nice to have had an explaination before now as to whats happening with us and even some sort of acknowledgement from the Unions as to the latest on this. There is a meeting for all effected at the end of next month so we may see then.
steve Posted June 15, 2009 Author Posted June 15, 2009 Salford and Wigan - RM - 26mil wiki updated RM gets Salford and Wigan schools contract | UK | Reuters 1
Gatt Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Had posted this in another thread somewhere but hadn't updated wiki as Salford have not officially announced it on their site or to their eomployees!
TerryTibbs Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Although it seemed that Vosper Thornycroft Education and Skills (VT ES) won Greenwich the picture is actually much murkier, weird and possibly holed beneath the water line. VT ES did not in fact win Greenwich - although VT PLC is now running the bid in Greenwich since a tripartite Lewisham/Greenwich/Deptford(?) LEP collapsed. VT PLC is not VT ES (who I think turnout to be a management buy-out of Surrey Education Services which was purchased by VT PLC.) VT PLC have now chosen Ramesys to run IT services in the borough since Northgate dropped out (citing chaos) and the other one (some company called Azzurri ) stalled because their offer was predicated on thin client and the network (which they did not control or manage) would not supply the bandwidth they needed. Ramesys has meanwhile gone very close to administration and the whole project has been mired by contractual wrangling. It has meant that what was initially supposed to cover 7 schools now covers 2 and no others will be considered for inclusion. Greenwich was a pathfinder, but still nothing has been built which has made Balfour Beatty unhappy and litigious because the timescales are way off and the responsibilities/liabilities are not clear. The process to date has taken 3 years to get no where. As an aside, it's interesting to note that the current Vice Chancellor of Greenwich University is Labour life peer Baroness Tessa Blackstone or more properly Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone former Labour Minister for Education from 1997 to 2001. Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone sits on the board of Vosper Thornycroft PLC 1
Butuz Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Described total carnage....... Wow. This is all our money that is going to waste on this kind of carnage. Imagine all the project managers, consultants. lawyers etc involved in that one with 7 diffrerent companies/organisation mentioned. We are paying for this mess - heads need to roll! :hand: Butuz
Heebeejeebee Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Ah, what a tangled web we weave. No conflict of interest there then. HBJB
TerryTibbs Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Imagine all the project managers, consultants. lawyers etc involved in that one with 7 diffrerent companies/organisation mentioned. Butuz It would be worth making some Freedom of Information Requests to find out just how much has been spent on project managers, consultants. lawyers etc in the process of doing nothing for Greenwich under the auspices of BSF
MMA Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Although it seemed that Vosper Thornycroft Education and Skills (VT ES) won Greenwich the picture is actually much murkier, weird and possibly holed beneath the water line. VT ES did not in fact win Greenwich - although VT PLC is now running the bid in Greenwich since a tripartite Lewisham/Greenwich/Deptford(?) LEP collapsed. VT PLC is not VT ES (who I think turnout to be a management buy-out of Surrey Education Services which was purchased by VT PLC.) VT PLC have now chosen Ramesys to run IT services in the borough since Northgate dropped out (citing chaos) and the other one (some company called Azzurri ) stalled because their offer was predicated on thin client and the network (which they did not control or manage) would not supply the bandwidth they needed. Ramesys has meanwhile gone very close to administration and the whole project has been mired by contractual wrangling. It has meant that what was initially supposed to cover 7 schools now covers 2 and no others will be considered for inclusion. Greenwich was a pathfinder, but still nothing has been built which has made Balfour Beatty unhappy and litigious because the timescales are way off and the responsibilities/liabilities are not clear. The process to date has taken 3 years to get no where. As an aside, it's interesting to note that the current Vice Chancellor of Greenwich University is Labour life peer Baroness Tessa Blackstone or more properly Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone former Labour Minister for Education from 1997 to 2001. Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone sits on the board of Vosper Thornycroft PLC Do note that Greenwich BSF is being delivered through an alternative model to the LEP. VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA, a model for BSF delivery chosen by the local authority, which is taking longer to deliver than the LEP model. Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme. VTE&S is 100% part of VT PLC. The Surrey element refered to is VT Four S. VT Four S is not a management buyout, but a Joint Venture between Surrey County Council and VT Plc providing school improvement services and expertise.
mortstar Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Do note that Greenwich BSF is being delivered through an alternative model to the LEP. VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA, a model for BSF delivery chosen by the local authority, which is taking longer to deliver than the LEP model. Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme. VTE&S is 100% part of VT PLC. The Surrey element refered to is VT Four S. VT Four S is not a management buyout, but a Joint Venture between Surrey County Council and VT Plc providing school improvement services and expertise. Any chance you're going to declare your interest on this? All your posts thus far have related to VT PLC.
TerryTibbs Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA...Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme. Here is Tessa Blackstone having absolutely nothing to do with VT and thereby no connection to the Greenwich BSF programme
MMA Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Here is Tessa Blackstone having absolutely nothing to do with VT and thereby no connection to the Greenwich BSF programme I didn't say she had nothing to do with VT. I was simply trying to be helpful by explaining the facts. The ownership of VTES etc can easily by checked through companies house.
TerryTibbs Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I didn't say she had nothing to do with VT. I was simply trying to be helpful by explaining the facts. No what you tried to do was 'issue a rebuttal' while deliberately glossing over an interesting connection. You were helpful in explaining the ownership of VT ES and distinguishing it from VT Four S. A reasonable assumption is that you work for VT or perhaps for their PR company. May be you would like to be even more helpful and explain away how Ramesys were chosen, why Northgate dropped out and what happened to Azzurri, touching on VT PLC's part in such a large-scale screw-up which has meant that nothing has yet been built.
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