Apprenticeships

[crwardell]

Question for Apprentices and support staff involved in training them?

 

Firstly can I just say that I think the Apprenticeship schemes that exist are a brilliant way of providing a direct route into a career in IT and having worked with Apprentices in the past I know how useful they can be.

 

The technician that works with me is looking into retiring soon and my bosses are considering replacing him with an Apprentice (good idea?)

There is me...the NM and the current technician...so the structure would be:-

 

NM + 1 apprentice

 

What are your thoughts/ experiences with this?

 

My first thought is where do I find time to train and guide the apprentice and how will they help towards the endless tasks and work load?

[pcstru]

My first thought is where do I find time to train and guide the apprentice and how will they help towards the endless tasks and work load?

You will become less efficient but as a team you will end up having a bit more resource. How much that is the case will depend on the apprentice and the skill of the team supporting the apprentice and acting as mentors.

 

When you say an apprentice, does the school have a job for the person at the end of the apprenticeship or do they simply see it as cheap labour (the school trades experience for work)?

[crwardell]

Hi Pcstru

 

There is definitely a job for the person but I'm not sure at this point what the plans of the school are.

 

I have only worked at the school for a few months so I am a bit unsure of how they work.

Ideally I would want an experienced technician and an apprentice so that between me and the technician we could provide the time needed to mentor the apprentice.

[Steve21]

We are in the same situation me NM and one tech who's leaving soon, and I brought up apprentices but decided against them in the end.

 

Main reason being if it was a team or 3 or so I'd have chosen it as it gives the apprentice someone to shadow and help them out with all tasks etc, however if you as a NM you need to go to every toner change or loose cable to help/explain things to them it's gonna impact the network imho. Bearing in mind an apprentice could have no IT knowledge etc.

 

Not so much an apprentice but I started a Junior Tech role originally and although NM did a lot with me the main day to day shadowing etc was with another Technician.

 

Is there no option like a term-time only tech, and then apprentice etc? Bearing in mind apprenctices are such low wage (not that it should be based on that etc)

 

Steve

Edited April 4, 2015 by Steve21

[pcstru]

I have only worked at the school for a few months so I am a bit unsure of how they work.

It will depend on the scheme. We have had a number over the years. They tended to spend ~40% of the time at college, the rest at the school. How well it worked very much depended on the person. We had one rated brilliant, one was meh, and one I had to play Alan Sugar to. I'd say you do need to be confident in setting appropriate tasks and being prepared to accept (and sometimes encourage [*1]) failure. If you are stretched for resource in an already busy and stressful school, it may make that worse, not better.

 

[*1] before I'm torn to shreds, I mean that sometimes when you are helping someone develop they will propose something or start going down a road that you know will not work but you have to let them.

[crwardell]

We are in the same situation me NM and one tech who's leaving soon, and I brought up apprentices but decided against them in the end.

 

Main reason being if it was a team or 3 or so I'd have chosen it as it gives the apprentice someone to shadow and help them out with all tasks etc, however if you as a NM you need to go to every toner change or loose cable to help/explain things to them it's gonna impact the network imho. Bearing in mind an apprentice could have no IT knowledge etc.

 

Not so much an apprentice but I started a Junior Tech role originally and although NM did a lot with me the main day to day shadowing etc was with another Technician.

 

Is there no option like a term-time only tech, and then apprentice etc? Bearing in mind apprenctices are such low wage (not that it should be based on that etc)

 

Steve

 

The conversation with SLT about using an Apprentice to replace the current technician was started in the corridor (a knee jerk response I'm hoping too addressing the need to think about replacing the technician when he retires) I will definitely be pushing for a full time technician as well as an apprentice.

 

I am just trying to gauge what others have done or would do in my situation....I get the feeling my thoughts are correct and just having me and an Apprentice would cause havoc to the schools ICT support. :-)

[strawberry]

An apprentice only works well if they time they take away from other staff they make up. In some cases its easier to go without than to have an apprentice that takes a disproportionate amount of time. I've had several over the years, some were a godsend who I could send to jobs then train by shouting across the office whilst I did actual work (was it plugged in? , google DNS, find me the toner code for a hp 1515..) others I've sent on wild goose chases just so I could get some work done and clear up messes they had made.

 

I wouldn't think a 1:1 ratio would work.

[WhizInTraining]

Hi,

 

Being an apprentice myself, I would agree with Strawberry. Some of us have the experience to come in, and not require much assistance, but other people try to do apprenticeships just because they want to earn money, and therefore require loads of training. It all depends on the type of person which you are going for really, if you want someone who is determined, focused, and looking to progress further with their apprenticeship, put that in the person specification.

 

It's all about giving an opportunity I would say, and it may seem biased, as I am an apprentice myself, but really, we've all got to start somewhere, I'm sure at some point, someone was training you, teaching you the things you now know?

[WhizInTraining]

I get the feeling my thoughts are correct and just having me and an Apprentice would cause havoc to the schools ICT support. :-)

 

Not necessarily, where I work, we are a three person team, My manager, my colleague, and myself (the apprentice) and we manage fairly well, in quite a big college.

 

Perhaps it could be different, as you are a school though, and not a college.

[RichCowell]

We're currently looking for an apprentice at my school, there's myself and a technician... I personally couldn't imagine coping with just an apprentice if my technician left - and I've told her (only half jokingly) that it'll have to be a staged retirement when she wants to retire!

 

We've had a few applications, ranging from those really keen and knowledgeable in IT to those who appear to just be looking for a job... I want the former, someone who wants to get a first step of the ladder in IT, though they're not easy to find! I also need to find someone who's happy to work term-time only due to the way we work here at my school...

 

We've not been successful finding anyone so far, came close once, but they he offered a better deal at the factory he was working at until he found something in IT - a decision I'm sure he'll regret, but can't blame him for the money...

 

I'd say you'd be better getting an actual Technician rather than an apprentice as the role is to replace a technician... also at the end of the apprenticeship they may move on, or the powers-that-be may decide that there isn't a role for them to continue in, and you may be stuck on your own...

[dry]

I started as an apprentice at my previous school...

 

It was the NM + one technician before I started. The NM moved away soon after I started and worked for the school remotely, leaving me (apprentice) plus the technician on site. Worked well as the NM still did all the 'big' jobs, leaving the technician to coach me and get lots of good experience.

 

The technician left as I was finishing my apprenticeship (not linked, honest!!) and the NM moved back to the area and was on site full time. I was taken on to replace the technician and we didn't get another apprentice- leaving just me (now a technician) and the NM on site.

 

The arrangement worked surprisingly well but the NM and I did have a great working relationship and knew each other's strengths. There's a certain level of trust needed before an apprentice really becomes valuable so don't be put off if they seem a bit useless/annoying at first!!

[Shadow_Walker]

I was an apprentice last year and it worked very well, the school i worked at had a NM and one technician. It worked really well as both were really helpful in training me and very patient which helped a lot. I got a lot of experience from both of them and were always willing to help with any problem which came up whilst also showing me other things to help my development. I also did 13 weeks of training throughout the year in centre where i did my Microsoft qualifications and also some city and guilds qualifications. The only thing you should be aware of if you are hiring an apprentice is get the timetable beforehand of when your apprentice will be in centre as my school were not happy as i did 5 weeks in school holidays and the remaining 8 in term time which did not go down to well with SLT.

 

A couple of months before my apprenticeship ended i was told i would not be kept on "due to budget constraint" which was a shame as i really enjoyed working with the IT team. 2 weeks later i went for an interview at another high school in the area and they offered me the position of IT Technician. I handed in my notice at my old place and finished the apprenticeship early (that went down well). Now at my new place its me and NM and it works well.

 

I would always say look at getting an apprentice as it is a good step for someone to get a foot on the job ladder in IT and is another set of hand around the office. But you have to have the facilities to cope with having one so be willing to teach them and be patient, but in the end we all have to start somewhere and all have to be given a chance to prove ourselves.

[WhizInTraining]

I would always say look at getting an apprentice as it is a good step for someone to get a foot on the job ladder in IT

 

I agree. While an experienced technician would be of a greater benefit short term, bringing in an apprentice (of course depending on the type of person, would determine how successful it is) would provide a much longer term solution, and in my case, I was able to pick things up very quickly, what with the experience of on the job training, as well as being able to go on training.

[dry]

I also did 13 weeks of training throughout the year in centre where i did my Microsoft qualifications and also some city and guilds qualifications. The only thing you should be aware of if you are hiring an apprentice is get the timetable beforehand of when your apprentice will be in centre as my school were not happy as i did 5 weeks in school holidays and the remaining 8 in term time which did not go down to well with SLT.

 

Sounds very similar to the company that organised my apprenticeship... Wasn't a certain two-letter company with a blue and white logo was it?

[Shadow_Walker]

Sounds very similar to the company that organised my apprenticeship... Wasn't a certain two-letter company with a blue and white logo was it?

 

Yes that's them.

[WhizInTraining]

Yes that's them.

I think that makes three of us, talking about the same place, but 13 weeks of training? Mine was only 9 weeks of training?

[dry]

I think that makes three of us, talking about the same place, but 13 weeks of training? Mine was only 9 weeks of training?

Indeedy, I had 11 weeks... started mine in summer of 2012

[Shadow_Walker]

Indeedy, I had 11 weeks... started mine in summer of 2012

 

My mistake was 11 weeks just dug out the old timetable. I started mine a year after yours then.

[NB9457]

Having been an apprentice here are my views:

 

Already being fairly knowledgeable, but not having the work experience to back it up, I decided to take on an apprenticeship.

 

I spent one year on site in a school and I was meant to go college once a week.

 

The end result was me never going to college as there was only me and one other tech and I never actually finished my qualification. But I did learn a shed load and I've come to realise it is experience you need for a career in this sector, more so than a qualification

 

During my year I learnt:

-Server 2003

-Server '08

-MDT

-Patching

-Cabling

-Imaging

-Installing projectors

-Fitting and configuring switche

-Complete network overhaul

-Classroom overhauls

-Exchange 2010

 

So overall, I learnt a load and but the theory I had into practice and actually ended up managing the network on days the admin was off.

 

The only sad bit was there were a lot of bitter feelings when I left, after the year working for I what I can only describe a slave wage, I was told they couldn't afford to keep me on and had never planned on doing from day one. Ouch. The senior tech fought to get me to stay, but my chances may have been slimmed when I told my line manager what I thought about how he treated me and the situation. When I left it seriously felt like a year wasted. I took a couple of weeks off then started applying for more jobs and goodness, I'd never had so many responses! Every position I applied for I received a reply to and even got to the interview stage on most. Within 6 weeks of leaving, I landed a job with a company car, phone, laptop and a wage I could only ever have dreamed of!

[WhizInTraining]

Within 6 weeks of leaving, I landed a job with a company car, phone, laptop and a wage I could only ever have dreamed of!

 

Where did you apply? Sounds like a dream!

[WhizInTraining]

My mistake was 11 weeks just dug out the old timetable. I started mine a year after yours then.

 

I started my one, funnily enough, a year after yours.

[NB9457]

Work as a mobile tech now in the North West, mainly for primaries.

 

Really enjoying it at the moment 😊

[GREED]

I've spoken several time on here about my experiences with apprentices - I used to work as an apprentice mentor and trainer (the companies you send them to to train them up and do their 'college' days).

 

I can honestly say it was one of the greatest experiences of my life to work with those young men and women as they started their careers in IT, often in schools, and see the transformation from day 1 to Day 1 + 2 Years when they left.

 

My consistent advice for employers/managers:

 

> Do not expect many skills: Remember that this could be not only their first job in IT but their first job full stop. It is likley that their skills in IT will be reasonable for self taught, but other skills such as personal skills, time management, communications, etc may need guidance on. Remember how your first days in your first job were!

> Be patient: This is all new for them, and they may not be sure this is for them in the long long term.

> Give them appropriate tasks: Don't think of them as the IT monkeys, challenge them. The right people will crave even the smallest responsibility and relish challenges. Keep them informed on things and in fact treat them exactly as you would a 'normal' technician.

> Keep in regular contact with the trainer/mentor: Ask them to help out with things you feel they need help with, that is what they are there for. So if they are shy still after 3 months, speak with the mentor (and of course the apprentice!) and ask advice or ask for assistance.

 

Above all, remember at those times when they are out at the college or trainers, and you are cursing - they are being paid less that half of minimum wage (depending on age), you are really getting free training for them from the college and the apprentice is getting free training too. If you do not see apprentices as an investment then do not bother. DO NOT get them as cheap labour at all, you do them or you no good and it is immoral to do so!

 

There is no issue in cycling apprentices every year either, because it is a cheap way to have someone do the technician tasks, so long as you give them all the training time and support you would to each of them. You have the option at the end to keep them on and take another, for the right candidate! But for goodness sake make that clear from the start!

 

Hope it helps, happy to talk more if needed.

[Shadow_Walker]

 

There is no issue in cycling apprentices every year either, because it is a cheap way to have someone do the technician tasks, so long as you give them all the training time and support you would to each of them. You have the option at the end to keep them on and take another, for the right candidate! But for goodness sake make that clear from the start!

 

100% agree with that.

[NB9457]

There is no issue in cycling apprentices every year either, because it is a cheap way to have someone do the technician tasks, so long as you give them all the training time and support you would to each of them. You have the option at the end to keep them on and take another, for the right candidate! But for goodness sake make that clear from the start!

 

Hope it helps, happy to talk more if needed.

 

I agree too.

 

I feel sorry for the next Apprentice (that's right, told me they couldn't afford me then got another). If there skill set and knowledge going into my old job are poor or they expect someone to be there, I fell sorry for them. They'll be another years cheap labour, but hopefully they'll get something back!