2015 Election

[sonofsanta]

This made me chuckle:

 

Quite sad to see Dan Jarvis rule himself out of the Labour leadership race, he sounds like he's in politics for all the right reasons. I think Andy Burnham may be too far left to win elections and Chuka Umunna seems a bit too Tory-in-Labour clothing from what I've seen. I need to do some more reading up, though.

 

Actually tempted to join the Labour party so I can have a vote -- which'd be an odd party for me to join, since I've voted Tory-LibDem-Green over the last three elections

[localzuk]

A suggestion made by a friend of mine is that all us lefties should join the Tories, then we have some say in their policies!!

[elsiegee40]

A suggestion made by a friend of mine is that all us lefties should join the Tories, then we have some say in their policies!!

 

Not such a stupid idea!

[strawberry]

A suggestion made by a friend of mine is that all us lefties should join the Tories, then we have some say in their policies!!

 

Didn't work out well for Nick Clegg though did it!. Shame though, was a sound principal and seemed to work well in practise.

[LeMarchand]

Interesting/scary article in the Independent on proposed welfare cuts: 11 reasons the poor are worried that Iain Duncan Smith is back in charge of benefits cuts - General Election 2015 - UK Politics - The Independent

[Garacesh]

Probably an unpopular opinion.. But I actually don't see what's wrong with the £26,000 benefits cap. I get by happily on less than half that..

Edit: Even £23,000pa is roundabout double my salary (post-tax)

Edited May 11, 2015 by Garacesh

[localzuk]

Probably an unpopular opinion.. But I actually don't see what's wrong with the £26,000 benefits cap. I get by happily on less than half that..

Edit: Even £23,000pa is roundabout double my salary (post-tax)

 

I'm torn over it to be honest. I agree there should be a disincentive for people to just have huge families on benefits, but at the same time should we be punishing children for their parents poor decisions?

 

Also, for those disabled people who need a significant amount of help, that cap could disadvantage them seriously.

[CAM]

Boris Johnson summoned to Downing Street....

[LeMarchand]

Probably an unpopular opinion.. But I actually don't see what's wrong with the £26,000 benefits cap. I get by happily on less than half that..

Edit: Even £23,000pa is roundabout double my salary (post-tax)

 

I'd agree with you for many people. But (while there is the "don't have kids if you can't afford them" argument) that may not go far with kids/disabilities/special needs; and some of the people who need money to support families may have had a job, but have since been forced onto a zero hours - sorry, flexible hours - contract.

[Garacesh]

Also, for those disabled people who need a significant amount of help, that cap could disadvantage them seriously.

that may not go far with kids/disabilities/special needs; and some of the people who need money to support families may have had a job, but have since been forced onto a zero hours - sorry, flexible hours - contract.

Valid points that I hadn't considered.

 

Honestly I'd go as far as to say the 'average' Nuclear family could easily survive off £23k pa. But yes, throw exceptional circumstances into the mix (disabilities/care) into the mix and things start getting tricky.

[localzuk]

Valid points that I hadn't considered.

 

Honestly I'd go as far as to say the 'average' Nuclear family could easily survive off £23k pa. But yes, throw exceptional circumstances into the mix (disabilities/care) into the mix and things start getting tricky.

 

Also, another thing to consider - that £23k wouldn't go far for an average nuclear family living in London...

 

So, in order to survive on it, poor people would end up having to move out to cheaper areas - making whatever low paid jobs there were in those areas completely inaccessible, as people wouldn't be able to afford to travel in to do them.

[Andrew_C]

Honestly I'd go as far as to say the 'average' Nuclear family could easily survive off £23k pa.

Try it in an area where a 3 bed house costs north of £1/4 million.

[sted]

Valid points that I hadn't considered.

 

Honestly I'd go as far as to say the 'average' Nuclear family could easily survive off £23k pa. But yes, throw exceptional circumstances into the mix (disabilities/care) into the mix and things start getting tricky.

no solution will ever fit all eventualities but i do find it galling that if i wanted kids id need to think about the costs whereas someone on benefits its just not an issue have another kid get more money (im sure its a bit more complicated than that) it does seem that some people do mplay the system. The problem is if you stop "paying out" after the 3rd kid its not so much the parents that suffer as kids 4/5... and thats also unfair

[LosOjos]

Probably an unpopular opinion.. But I actually don't see what's wrong with the £26,000 benefits cap. I get by happily on less than half that..

Edit: Even £23,000pa is roundabout double my salary (post-tax)

 

Also don't forget that people generally live to their means; losing nearly £100 a month is going to hit my family hard. Granted, we'll survive, adapt and get used to it, but it's quite a significant amount of money to lose for a family just over the threshold.

[zag]

You guys make it sound like "poor people" on benefits are going to be disadvantaged forever due to the benefits cap.

 

I'm pretty sure the more the Tories squeeze benefits, the more people we will see, earning a decent wage back in employment. They are aiming for full employment and an £8 minimum wage so that should encourage lots of people to go out and work.

 

The part of the welfare state that covers disabled people is actually a very small minority and should of course be protected.

[tmcd35]

Without seeing exact figures and individual circumstances it's really difficult to argue one way or another to be honest. How is the £26k actually made up, and for what reasons? How does it compare against tax credits and benefits available to similar families who are working?

 

There's a lot of knee jerk reaction over Daily Mail style £90k benefit cheat stories that hide the more important detail.

 

For this reason I've long thought that there should be a single means tested benefit/tax credit/call it what you will that is paid to the household rather than an individual, and I'll include pensions in that. Personally I think it's a bigger crime that we pay child benefit, maternity pay, pensions, bus passes, etc as a single claimable benefit open to anyone regardless of circumstances.

 

Cutting child support for someone whose hit the magic £26k benefit mark but paying it to a working couple earning £40k a year is wrong.

[LeMarchand]

Also, another thing to consider - that £23k wouldn't go far for an average nuclear family living in London...

 

So, in order to survive on it, poor people would end up having to move out to cheaper areas - making whatever low paid jobs there were in those areas completely inaccessible, as people wouldn't be able to afford to travel in to do them.

 

I'm sure Boris has already got plans to convert toxic disused warehouses/factories into dormitories so that the new "service class" will have somewhere to sleep between shifts.

[tmcd35]

I'm pretty sure the more the Tories squeeze benefits, the more people we will see, earning a decent wage back in employment. They are aiming for full employment and an £8 minimum wage so that should encourage lots of people to go out and work.

 

I'd accept that if they weren't cutting public sector jobs and promoting zero hour contracts.

[localzuk]

You guys make it sound like "poor people" on benefits are going to be disadvantaged forever due to the benefits cap.

 

I'm pretty sure the more the Tories squeeze benefits, the more people we will see, earning a decent wage back in employment. They are aiming for full employment and an £8 minimum wage so that should encourage lots of people to go out and work.

 

Except there aren't enough jobs to go around... Small flaw in the plan!

 

The part of the welfare state that covers disabled people is actually a very small minority and should of course be protected.

 

Which of course, isn't protected.

[E_G_R2]

I'm sure Boris has already got plans to convert toxic disused warehouses/factories into dormitories so that the new "service class" will have somewhere to sleep between shifts.

 

I wish that was funny but it could just be the future for London, a new servitude/serf class

[Garacesh]

Also, another thing to consider - that £23k wouldn't go far for an average nuclear family living in London...

 

So, in order to survive on it, poor people would end up having to move out to cheaper areas - making whatever low paid jobs there were in those areas completely inaccessible, as people wouldn't be able to afford to travel in to do them.

True, but one could argue the salary you're paid is proportionate to the affluence of the area. Yes, houses is London cost a lot more, but the jobs also pay a lot more. I can't confirm nor deny that the difference is directly proportionate, but in theory it's there. Truth be told I don't know all there is to know about the financial sector (hence why I'm not minister of finance) but as a general principal, it's sound. However, you're right. If you lose your job for whatever reason, 23k probably won't get you much in the centre of London, and moving house doesn't come cheap..

 

I guess living in Manchester for most of my life I lose sight of how expensive other parts of the country can be.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Garacesh

[LeMarchand]

You guys make it sound like "poor people" on benefits are going to be disadvantaged forever due to the benefits cap.

 

I'm pretty sure the more the Tories squeeze benefits, the more people we will see, earning a decent wage back in employment. They are aiming for full employment and an £8 minimum wage so that should encourage lots of people to go out and work.

 

Step 1: Cut Benefits.

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Full employment!

 

£8 minimum wage could well be the first election promise to be broken.

[E_G_R2]

£8 minimum wage could well be the first election promise to be broken.

 

How is this going to work? Surely it will push salaries up unless the plan is to have most people earning the minimum wage instead?

[Garacesh]

£8ph minimum wage sounds fantastic, but it's going to cause a lot of small businesses to suffer.

[LeMarchand]

How is this going to work? Surely it will push salaries up unless the plan is to have most people earning the minimum wage instead?

 

Breaking the promise? All politicians lie!

 

More seriously, I saw a few interviews with business owners in the election run-up where they were complaining that having to pay the existing minimum wage was making it difficult for them. presumably they weren't paying themselves minimu wage, though.