UK MP calls for e-mail disclaimer ban

[Arthur]

Good idea, although MPs could save paper (and taxpayer money) either by not printing out their e-mails in the first place or by checking print preview before they press Print.

 

MP Alan Duncan calls for email disclaimer ban « BBC News

 

An MP has called for an end to "useless" legal disclaimers at the bottom of emails.

 

Sir Alan Duncan said the "meaningless missives" led to "forests' worth of paper" being wasted when emails are printed out.

 

He presented a bill that would ban the practice for public bodies.

 

Sir Alan told MPs the disclaimers were a hangover from the early days of the internet and could be replaced with a link to an attachment.

 

"We have all been there," he said.

 

"A short email comes in from a friend, colleague or company and we hit print and then we look in horror as page after page spews out."

 

He said the creation of the world wide web by Sir Tim Berners-Lee was "a matter of national pride", but added: "This moment of innovative genius should not be allowed to be tarnished by the very worst of sluggish, bureaucratic verbiage that is represented by the e-mail disclaimer."

 

During his time as International Development Secretary, he said he had reduced his department's disclaimer to 17 words.

 

His bill, introduced under the 10-minute rule, would ban the practice but in the meantime he urged those with the power to do so to amend long disclaimers voluntarily.

 

The legislation was accepted at first reading, but it is unlikely to become law in its current form without government support due to a lack of parliamentary time.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Arthur

[XiJ]

Print them?

 

*face palm*

[Norphy]

I don't disagree but this bit annoyed the pedantic in me:

 

He said the creation of the world wide web by Sir Tim Berners-Lee was "a matter of national pride", but added: "This moment of innovative genius should not be allowed to be tarnished by the very worst of sluggish, bureaucratic verbiage that is represented by the e-mail disclaimer"

 

Berners-Lee may have come up with the world wide web but email is not a component of the www, it's part of the internet. Berners-Lee had nothing to do with the creation of email although I suppose it could be argued that the www helped facilitate its uptake

[LincolnE]

I actually agree with this. I don't think any of the disclaimers actually have a leg on to stand on if something did go wrong, anyway.

[Arthur]

I don't think any of the disclaimers actually have a leg on to stand on if something did go wrong, anyway.

They're completely pointless, yet almost every business adds them to e-mails because others do the same. It's a vicious circle we can't escape from.

 

Spare us the e-mail yada-yada « The Economist

 

They are assumed to be a wise precaution. But they are mostly, legally speaking, pointless. Lawyers and experts on internet policy say no court case has ever turned on the presence or absence of such an automatic e-mail footer in America, the most litigious of rich countries.

 

Many disclaimers are, in effect, seeking to impose a contractual obligation unilaterally, and thus are probably unenforceable. This is clear in Europe, where a directive from the European Commission tells the courts to strike out any unreasonable contractual obligation on a consumer if he has not freely negotiated it. And a footer stating that nothing in the e-mail should be used to break the law would be of no protection to a lawyer or financial adviser sending a message that did suggest something illegal.

 

So why are the disclaimers there? Company lawyers often insist on them because they see others using them. As with Latin vocabulary and judges' robes, once something has become a legal habit it has a tendency to stick. Might they at least remind people to behave sensibly? Michael Overly, a lawyer for Foley & Lardner in Los Angeles, thinks not: the proliferation of predictable yada-yada at the bottom of messages means that people have long since stopped paying any attention to it.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Arthur

[Seb1780]

I don't think any of the disclaimers actually have a leg on to stand on if something did go wrong, anyway.

 

A bit like the disclaimers we see in the signature boxes of many Edugeek users

 

Funny how none of them have commented on this thread!

[Garacesh]

A bit like the disclaimers we see in the signature boxes of many Edugeek users

 

Funny how none of them have commented on this thread!

 

Lol yeah I noticed those, which is why my first 'proper' signature was "So I'm s'posed to put some kind of opinion disclaimer her, right?"

 

Are we talking about the "THIS MESSAGE AND ITS CONTENTS ARE MEANT ONLY FOR THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, DISSEMINATION OF THIS INFORMATION..." blah blah blah.. That's at the BOTTOM of the e-mail, y'know, AFTER you've read it. Plus a lot of times there's no real indication of who the actual 'intended recipient' is.. Yeah. Those are stupid.

[IrritableTech]

Who prints emails?

 

Trying my best to go completely paperless this year, but I can honestly say it's been a very, very long time since I last printed an email.

[elsiegee40]

Who prints emails?

 

Trying my best to go completely paperless this year, but I can honestly say it's been a very, very long time since I last printed an email.

 

My Bursar. My headteacher...

[mats]

Alan Duncan's constituency is Rutland, which is leafy Niceville-on-the-Water territory. Maybe that's the most urgent issue there. That or he's just after some easy headlines ahead of the election.

[IrritableTech]

My Bursar. My headteacher...

I guess my question should have been Why do people need to print emails?

 

Leave it as bits and bytes and it's searchable, backed up, traceable etc. etc.

[Domino]

Good for him getting it to 17 words...of course, no UK business can legally do that *facepalm*

 

Email notices and email footers

[hardtailstar]

I guess my question should have been Why do people need to print emails?

 

Leave it as bits and bytes and it's searchable, backed up, traceable etc. etc.

 

If I contact a company via email about an order quote, It has to be printed off and attached to the order.

 

Its so that all records have the whole process of ordering and if anything happens to the finance package installed on the computer there is a paper copy

[witch]

If I contact a company via email about an order quote, It has to be printed off and attached to the order.

 

Its so that all records have the whole process of ordering and if anything happens to the finance package installed on the computer there is a paper copy

Yes but isn't the order a separate pdf or whatever? It doesn't have the disclaimer on and so you only print what you can see?

[hardtailstar]

Yes but isn't the order a separate pdf or whatever? It doesn't have the disclaimer on and so you only print what you can see?

 

I have to print the email that I send and the reply I get back, then the pdf of the quote/order gets printed off.

 

But to be honest I cant actually remember the last time a company I deal with had a long disclaimer.

[abillybob]

A bit like the disclaimers we see in the signature boxes of many Edugeek users

 

Funny how none of them have commented on this thread!

 

I'll comment on that

 

I do it because it makes me feel a bit better when talking on a public forum. While I am at the school typing... like I am now, it should be on behalf of the school. When sometimes I'd like to express my feeling etc.. that have nothing to do with my place of work I just want people to be aware that they are my opinions and not opinions based on the school.

 

So my sig just confirms that on every post I make. It's more a precaution to make myself feel better about it rather than a legal issue.

[john]

I like how it suggest that it could be an attachment... so lets waste more disk space per email putting say a PDF on each mail we sent......

[matt40k]

I think he's doing it as it's getting close to election day and it's a easy win. Joe Commonman gets narked off with 15 pages of an email being legal disclaimers, the green vote gets narked off with the older generation printing said 15 page legal disclaimer and the rest get narked off with the red tape and legal nonsense. All he has to do is basically prove that the disclaimer ain't worth jack, and it really isn't. Point and case - this email has been scanned by AVG and is virus free. Totally pointless. This email is private, then why was it sent via unencrypted means. Any other disclaimer about disregarding because it was sent to the wrong person, well it's a footer, people read top to bottom, the damage is done. As for business\personal, that's they you have a multiple email accounts, if its personal and has nothing to do with my work, you get it from my personal email account. Same goes for any other type of account.

[Garacesh]

Point and case - this email has been scanned by AVG and is virus free

Don't they usually not guarantee it's virus free but give the same 'best efforts' lark that you get with boneless chicken etc?

[matt40k]

Don't they usually not guarantee it's virus free but give the same 'best efforts' lark that you get with boneless chicken etc?

 

Indeed, the irony that a disclaimer requires a disclaimer. I wonder if the disclaimer requires a disclaimer as well?

 

no UK business can legally do that *facepalm*

 

Email notices and email footers

 

All the UK law states is that a business must display their business details - which I think is only for Ltd companies as well, I know they must have a business sign on the front of their premises (https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/signs-stationery-and-promotional-material). Of course, socitors will make it sound like the sky is falling, much like we IT folk do with the end of XP etc.

[Domino]

 

 

 

All the UK law states is that a business must display their business details - which I think is only for Ltd companies as well, I know they must have a business sign on the front of their premises (https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/signs-stationery-and-promotional-material). Of course, socitors will make it sound like the sky is falling, much like we IT folk do with the end of XP etc.

 

Er, no.

 

You read the bit under the bit about signs on your link?

 

You must include your company’s name on all company documents, publicity and letters.

 

On business letters, order forms, invoices and websites, you must show:

 

the company’s registered number

its registered office address

where the company is registered (England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland)

the fact that it’s a limited company (usually by spelling out the company’s full name including ‘Limited’ or ‘Ltd’)

 

That includes email under the Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008...our (semi) tame lawyer had a fit when she didn't see it on internal mails until I explained it was an outbound transport rule...

[matt40k]

The link is for Limited companies. Nothing about sole traders, schools etc. It's one thing to give your business\schools details, that's common sense, school names tend to get duplicated across the country, its logical to confirm which one you are. Its another to include a load of disclaimers - like "Emails sent to and from this organisation will be monitored in accordance with the law" or "No virus found in this message."

[Domino]

I work for a Limited Company. I didn't say it was a school requirement.

[matt40k]

My bad. But point still remains. Business "ID" is one thing, disclaimers is another. One is common sense and required, the other is meanless nonsense that is seen to be "legal and required"

 

"ID" as in address, contact, company reg no, VAT no, etc.

[Domino]

Personally, it's been a while since I've seen a REALLY offensively large "bit at the bottom of the email that is after the signature but isn't legally required" {disambiguation}

 

Certainly, getting a mail with something even a bit out of the ordinary is cause for much laughing and sharing here. Although trying to legislate it seems madness, especially when control of the print output is in the hands of the recipient...