Ruckus Coverage?

[MattBennett]

We have a few schools now with Ruckus wireless kit and have overall been impressed with it.

 

However, nearly all companies we've spoken to are installing a single AP to cover 2-3 classrooms, some of which are using upto 30 CC4 stations (which have quite a high impact on wireless). We're finding that when they use the devices in the same class as the AP it's fine, but the adjoining classrooms aren't performing anywhere near as well.

 

I've asked if we can put an AP per classroom, but have been told it's overkill and will degrade performance due to overlap. However, on the flipside, we're finding the performance isn't up to scratch otherwise.

 

On the flipside, both Meraki/Meru are quoting based on one per teaching room.

 

How is everyone else installing their kit? Specifically if you're using CC4?

 

Thanks.

[stevenlong1985]

If I had the money I would put an AP in each classroom. Might be a bit over kill, but at least your covering all areas and poor signal spots.

 

A single AP can cover 2 to 3 classrooms. the problem is when you have so many users connecting at once it can be a bottle neck for that AP.

[localzuk]

If you're using that number of devices, adding more APs will increase capacity. However, the range for each AP will significantly drop (as the TX power will be reduced by the controller). You will also get a higher level of collisions, as no matter how low you drop the TX power, the devices will start to overlap between rooms.

 

So, its pretty much a case of figuring out the best balance for any specific area.

 

Ruckus APs can on the whole support more devices per AP then most of their competitors, due to their clever antenna designs and things like Beam Forming etc...

 

Who are you talking to for the Ruckus quote? Have you specified the max potential clients in an area (ie. in these 5 rooms, there could be 170 clients)? If you calculate it on a purely Mbps per device basis, and you only have 2 APs covering those rooms, you're basically saying the maximum a client can have is 12Mbps (2GBps/170). Compared to 5 APs giving you a theoretical max of 60Mbps. (Note - bear in mind, that is theoretical maximum if all clients were connecting and demanding bandwidth at the same time, which is unrealistic to say the least).

[gtg93]

With Ruckus I would say every 3r classroom should work, but where the classrooms are side by side, I'd say every other room just to cover yourself. I think every classroom is overkill.

 

We've set it up like this in many schools and never had an issue with it

[MattBennett]

Sorry all, posted this and forgot about it.

 

I've asked about an AP per room, and been told a big "No!" - however I'm finding that we're installing extra AP's into our Ruckus installations to increase density, and schools are reporting an improvement. So the theory is being smashed by the practice. Yes, you can argue collisions, and performance losses - but I'd rather that, than have headteachers telling me it's no improvement after spending £5-10k. After all the s**t I've had to tolerate from DLink's wireless equipment, I was hoping Ruckus would remove that headache but I feel like I'm coming full circle and seeing the same issue.

 

Regarding rooms - all companies have been informed that it'll be 30 devices per room, using CC4 which has a large profile - not considered a problem, I'm told.

[sparkeh]

30 devices per room, using CC4 which has a large profile - not considered a problem, I'm told.

I would seriously question that. In my experience CC4 machines suck up huge amounts of bandwidth when starting up and logging in. 30 CC4 machines all starting up at the same time would seriously degrade performance.

[hardtailstar]

We have Rukus on a 1:1 basis, in some classes there is two to cover open areas beside classrooms.

 

We only have 10 laptops per class but when a class borrows from other classes to have a 1:1 child ratio the extra amount in the classroom slows down the network when they are all connected to that one AP.

 

However the classes with two APs have no issue.

 

But having said that our APs are about 6-7 years old.

[Haptic]

A lot comes down to AP model with regard to client density capabilities, which models are currently deployed and which are being backfilled in?

 

As mentioned AP per classroom isn't a great idea as Tx power even at its minimum transmit power will still lead to several AP's being visible to each other and increased packet collisions etc..

 

One thing I see quite frequently are misconfiguration within the ZD, if you didn't do the original deployment then its worth going through section by section to check that nothing silly has been ticked or unticked; particularly pertinent to this is checking whether load balancing is enabled.

 

If you want to chat in more detail on it drop me a PM.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[robjd]

I have Ruckus and every installer I have talked to (3.... long story), they were specific you should not have too many AP's in one area. Explain what you require to them in writing and have them tell you where to put them.

[Sagima]

My school has sections dating between about 170 years old and less than 8 years old. The pre1900 and the post2000 parts of that need more points than the parts that were built during the 1900s where, in a few places, we use 1 point for 4-6 classrooms. The second newest building appears to be highly resistant to wifi travelling through the walls, the floors/ceilings and it's 3cm thick tinted glass so we have an AP roughly every other room and a "floating one" for the iPad class set.

 

We use mostly 7363s with a few 7372's and a couple of R700 in the highest density areas.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sagima
typing error

[Haptic]

The second newest building appears to be highly resistant to wifi travelling through the walls, the floors/ceilings and it's 3cm thick tinted glass

 

I'd hazard a guess its the dreaded foil backed insulation in the newer section; nightmare for signal penetration. As for the tinted glass, tend to find that the worst ones for RF are the metallized tints- as you can imagine coating glass in a layer of fine metal inst great for radio waves passing through it!

 

As many of you have outlined coverage per AP is entirely down to the specific on-site environmental conditions and this really sums up why a proper site survey is needed, with real world signal testing, rather than the dreaded "guy with clipboard walking around taping on walls periodically" type that I come across all too frequently.

 

Mark

Edited November 28, 2014 by Haptic
typo

[howartp]

We had site survey; some buildings are every zigzagged classroom across corridor, some are less, depending on build material.

[ass17]

We have an AP in every room. Thick walls being an old school. We have in total 95.

 

The overlap is not a real issue, and don't forget that the ruckus system is designed to load balance across multiple APs if the signal is strong enough. The 7363s in theory should connect 60 clients but we like to think a class of 30 would cope without issues.

 

We have had no issues so far and we are still sitting on 9.6 firmware.

[cheredenine]

We have a Ruckus installation organised after a site survey - we're in a school built in 1938 and have APs approx every other room. We've a newer two story building with three rooms over three rooms, with another two off to one side; four APs cover the lot, split between ground and first floor. We don't have many devices kicking round at the moment, but coverage for what we do have seems very strong and goes everywhere we need it. Also have to say that I've had zero problems with the install; once in it has just worked perfectly for us.

 

Best part was the price - we had a competing quote from a company offering Meru equipment and who wanted to put an AP in every room. We saved about £25k by going Ruckus and had probably half the number of APs in total.... Meant we were able to do the whole site, rather than just one section as originally planned.

[DrCheese]

It's down to the stuff in the walls we found - Our new block is lined with metal meaning that it acts like a Faraday cage to wifi signals & I've had to put an AP in every classroom in that block. Our old 1980s block tho I can get away with one every few rooms, aside from area's like science that can have 90/100 devices on at a time.