World Cup!

[Earthling]

You're optomistic..... I think one of the reasons England have suffered in major tournaments has been due to media pressure to live up to a team that played nearly 50 years ago.

 

The reason England haven't won a major tournament is that they simply haven't been good enough. Germany were better in 96 and there is no way England would have beaten France in 98, Zidane would have made our midfield look like a Sunday league team. The fact that there are young players coming through in this tournament shows that the premier league isn't killing off the chance for young players to come through. It also means that when they do come through they are playing against world class opposition that they will face when they go to major tournaments.

 

Germany were the width of Gazza's boot away from being in the 3rd/4th play-off game. Bad choice of penalty-takers was the only reason they got through to the Final.

 

In 98, Glenn Hoddle was more of a threat to our midfield than Zidane would have been.

[Earthling]

You leave my Pension alone!

 

 

Wasn't your pension I was talking about, but I'll put yours on Rooney to fail (again) and to bad-mouth the fans (again) for booing him. Nice little double, if you can find a bookie to take it.

[Earthling]

Are you mad? EPL is killing off English talent in replacement for foreign talent.

 

Yep, he's mad. If I had to name a club that's done for more British talent than the rest of the PL put together, it would be Southampton, as someone else already said. They also brought Alan Shearer through, twenty or more years ago, so they're not just a recent phenomenon.

[madurham]

Yep, he's mad. If I had to name a club that's done for more British talent than the rest of the PL put together, it would be Southampton, as someone else already said. They also brought Alan Shearer through, twenty or more years ago, so they're not just a recent phenomenon.

 

Add to that West Ham. Literally called 'The Academy of Football'.

 

Only one player in the World Cup squad plays for a club outside England and that one is in Scotland. If only 1/3 of the EPL is made up of English players we are selecting from a very small circle.

[APMerry]

Wasn't your pension I was talking about, but I'll put yours on Rooney to fail (again) and to bad-mouth the fans (again) for booing him. Nice little double, if you can find a bookie to take it.

 

Not sure i'd get great odd's on that...

[aworkc]

Yep, he's mad. If I had to name a club that's done for more British talent than the rest of the PL put together, it would be Southampton, as someone else already said. They also brought Alan Shearer through, twenty or more years ago, so they're not just a recent phenomenon.

 

And I think you'll find that I was the person who said Southampton as I'm a Southampton fan. I don't think that you can blame all of Englands failings on foreign players coming to the premier league, I think you can also blame the fact that players who have been playing week in and week out in the premier league have not performed when they have put on an England shirt, I think you could also blame the media who put young players up on a pedestal when they emerge on the scene and tear them apart the minute they make a mistake. I think Hodgson is being very careful with the young players (sterling, Barkley, Shaw) I think they will play but I think they will come on in games instead of starting.

 

Fans betting on players to fail doesn't help either, maybe it would be more beneficial to get behind the players that have been selected instead of saying they'll fail before they've kicked a ball in Brazil

[Zoom7000]

Only one player in the World Cup squad plays for a club outside England and that one is in Scotland. If only 1/3 of the EPL is made up of English players we are selecting from a very small circle.

 

The trouble is that barely any world class English players play outside of England. We're having to pick from a small circle, because English players are being forced out by foreign imports.

 

Germany were the width of Gazza's boot away from being in the 3rd/4th play-off game. Bad choice of penalty-takers was the only reason they got through to the Final.

 

Sorry to nitpick... but the Euros don't have a 3rd/4th play-off!

 

But yes, England were FAR stronger than Germany in Euro 96. And it wasn't just a Gazza boot, it was an Anderton bullet to the post too! Imagine that, Darren "Sicknote" Anderton almost got us to the European Cup Final!

[Earthling]

The trouble is that barely any world class English players play outside of England. We're having to pick from a small circle, because English players are being forced out by foreign imports.

 

 

 

Sorry to nitpick... but the Euros don't have a 3rd/4th play-off!

 

But yes, England were FAR stronger than Germany in Euro 96. And it wasn't just a Gazza boot, it was an Anderton bullet to the post too! Imagine that, Darren "Sicknote" Anderton almost got us to the European Cup Final!

 

 

You're right, they don't, so Germany wouldn't even have got third place. Two things I remember, amongst all the other glittering England moments that year.......Sheringham's dummy and pass to Shearer for one of the goals against Holland and Psycho's face after he scored his penalty against Spain. Who do you see that kind of commitment and passion coming from in this year's squad?

 

Oh well, .................

[Zoom7000]

The whole of Euro 96 had a feel good factor about it. Maybe some of that was thanks to home advantage, but mainly because that squad were a good team. It was also an era where playing for England was considered an honour as opposed to overtime at work after a club season which is where the players priorities seem to lie these days. There is clearly no honour in donning the shirts anymore.

[Earthling]

There isn't, and they should all, with one or two exceptions, be ashamed of themselves. To think what I and many other members of this forum, I'm sure, would give to have worn the Three Lions (either/or the Welsh Dragon, in my case) in anger. In unpaid anger, even.

[Earthling]

And I think you'll find that I was the person who said Southampton as I'm a Southampton fan. I don't think that you can blame all of Englands failings on foreign players coming to the premier league, I think you can also blame the fact that players who have been playing week in and week out in the premier league have not performed when they have put on an England shirt, I think you could also blame the media who put young players up on a pedestal when they emerge on the scene and tear them apart the minute they make a mistake. I think Hodgson is being very careful with the young players (sterling, Barkley, Shaw) I think they will play but I think they will come on in games instead of starting.

 

Fans betting on players to fail doesn't help either, maybe it would be more beneficial to get behind the players that have been selected instead of saying they'll fail before they've kicked a ball in Brazil

 

The media certainly, but we get the media we deserve. Don't buy the trash newspapers, don't subscribe on-line and one day, we'll get the media we want.

 

You've mentioned the very reason why I don't think Rooney should be starting, non-performance in an England shirt. When he gets behind his country and performs the same way he does for Man U, then he'll be worth a starting place. But he doesn't, he hasn't, and he prefers to bad-mouth money-paying fans for booing him. His comments to the camera in 2010, while walking off at the end of the game, I think it was against Algeria, were disingenuous and showed what an over-paid, spoiled brat he really is, and he hasn't changed at all in the interim. Did he not realise that most of the fans booing him had paid probably their next three years salaries to make the trip half-way round the world to support England, or did he just not care?

 

Why is it the fans that always have to 'get behind the team'? Why don't the players give the fans something to 'get behind' first? They ought to try it, perhaps they'd get the same level of support that the Euro 96 team enjoyed.

[aworkc]

The media certainly, but we get the media we deserve. Don't buy the trash newspapers, don't subscribe on-line and one day, we'll get the media we want.

 

You've mentioned the very reason why I don't think Rooney should be starting, non-performance in an England shirt. When he gets behind his country and performs the same way he does for Man U, then he'll be worth a starting place. But he doesn't, he hasn't, and he prefers to bad-mouth money-paying fans for booing him. His comments to the camera in 2010, while walking off at the end of the game, I think it was against Algeria, were disingenuous and showed what an over-paid, spoiled brat he really is, and he hasn't changed at all in the interim. Did he not realise that most of the fans booing him had paid probably their next three years salaries to make the trip half-way round the world to support England, or did he just not care?

 

Why is it the fans that always have to 'get behind the team'? Why don't the players give the fans something to 'get behind' first? They ought to try it, perhaps they'd get the same level of support that the Euro 96 team enjoyed.

 

They haven't started yet so why not support them, if they perform badly then fine have a go at them.

 

Rooney was poor in 2010 but to say he's not performed in an England shirt is a bit over the top, he's already got 39 goals for England and if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be going to the world cup as his goal scoring record in qualifiers is oustanding.

 

I agree totally that what he did in 2010 was disgraceful and I'm not a massive fan of Wayne Rooney but he has got the ability to hurt teams at a major tournament. I think Rooneys career will be looked back on as a dissapointment because he showed so much promise and for some reason never really became the player he could have been. I do believe part of that is that for club and country rooney hasn't been played in the position that suits him best which is playing off the striker. He's played up front or out on the wings. In 2004 when we had Owen up front and Rooney was given the freeedom to play off him he was outstanding and teams didn't know what to do with him.

 

I know players are paid unbelievable amounts of money so should be expected to cope with the pressure of playing at a world cup. Ultimately though they are human. I've previously posted on this topic that I would be happy if England went out in the group trying to play decent football and actually going for it instead of dragging our way through to a quarter final playing dull football and then going out with a wimper.

 

I think the future is bright though. Sterling, Barkley, chamberlaine, Shaw, Stones, J Rodriguez (who i think would have gone to the world cup had he not got injured, although as previously mentioned I am a biased Saints fan).

[aworkc]

Also I completely agree with what you said about the newspapers

[Zoom7000]

I think the future is bright though. Sterling, Barkley, chamberlaine, Shaw, Stones, J Rodriguez (who i think would have gone to the world cup had he not got injured, although as previously mentioned I am a biased Saints fan).

 

The trouble is, since 1998, the future was always bright and then kinda just fizzled out. Owen was the prospect of 1998 - 2002, Becks was on top form (especially that qualifier against Greece) where no one except him bothered to turn up! And that is the problem, most of the players just don't give a crap. The same applies to the current crop of bright young stars who will inevitably become overpaid primadonnas because they got a World Cup call up.

 

As someone mentioned already, there really needs to be a regime change in the EPL's way of thinking when it comes to home grown talent and the number of allowed foreign players in a lineup.

[aworkc]

The trouble is, since 1998, the future was always bright and then kinda just fizzled out. Owen was the prospect of 1998 - 2002, Becks was on top form (especially that qualifier against Greece) where no one except him bothered to turn up! And that is the problem, most of the players just don't give a crap. The same applies to the current crop of bright young stars who will inevitably become overpaid primadonnas because they got a World Cup call up.

 

As someone mentioned already, there really needs to be a regime change in the EPL's way of thinking when it comes to home grown talent and the number of allowed foreign players in a lineup.

 

I think it comes down to how they're managed.... I think Roy is a good manager to keep players feet on the ground. I don't think you can tar them all with the same brush. When Luke Shaw got his call up for a friendly against Denmark he was in tears so it clearly meant something to him. I think the advantage is that their seems to be some healthy competition for places. Previously that hasn't happened so players have walked into the time and not given it their all because they simply haven't had to. 6 months ago I don't think anyone would have expected Lallana and Henderson to be starting in the first game of the world cup.

 

The problem with all the initiatives to bring through young players get exploited as the big teams will bring foreign players in at a younger age to get round it. There are already initiatives in place to limit the number of foreign players but there will always be loopholes and the punishments are nowhere near severe enough. Same as with the financial fair play rules, PSG broke them and have now signed David Luiz for £40m.

 

I don't dispute the number of foreign players in the EPL affects the national team, but I also don't think it's the only contributing factor.

[Zoom7000]

I think it comes down to how they're managed.... I think Roy is a good manager to keep players feet on the ground.

 

This is also the case. I think we've lacked a strong England manager for an awfully long time. The way they've been playing under Roy so far isn't really filling anyone with any sort of confidence. Although very unlikely, I would really love to see a Jose Mourinho/Guus Hiddink figure manage the England team and see how we do under some proper managerial direction.

 

I know before Sven there was always a stigma against a foreign manager, but personally, I just don't think we've had the correct person in place. And I don't understand giving the role to the first English bloke that seems to be available. Honestly, what did Taylor, Hoddle and McLaren ever achieve at managerial level to make them decent candidates for the role?

[aworkc]

This is also the case. I think we've lacked a strong England manager for an awfully long time. The way they've been playing under Roy so far isn't really filling anyone with any sort of confidence. Although very unlikely, I would really love to see a Jose Mourinho/Guus Hiddink figure manage the England team and see how we do under some proper managerial direction.

 

That's exactly why they got Capello in and he lead us to what I personally think was our worst ever performance in a world cup.....

 

I think Roy is a decent manager, he can't get the players playing attacking pressing football in that heat, they need to keep possesion and pass the ball around the back four and midfield and take their chances when they get them.

[rickjames]

Happy 6 weeks, everybody.

[Zoom7000]

So... Easy win for Brazil tonight? Or will Modric and co throw a spanner in to the works?

[APMerry]

I think Brazil will win comfortably tonight, they'll be so up for it. Also.... had the draw for the sweepstakes at work yesterday and got Argentina! Dark horses.

[aworkc]

I wouldn't say Argentina are Dark Horses, they're 2nd Favourites.... I think it will be a comfortable Brazil win tonight

[Griff]

Just got Mexico in the sweeps...meh

[featured_spectre]

2nd sweepstakes...got Chile.

 

Couldn't believe the luck of 1 lady, she got Brazil in the first one, and Argentina and Germany in the 2nd one. Just couldn't believe her luck!

[APMerry]

I wouldn't say Argentina are Dark Horses, they're 2nd Favourites....

 

Okay maybe Dark Horses is not the right description, but there doesn't seem to be any pressure on them.

[SiliconAlley_Sam]

It all starts today!

 

Fancy putting your England predictions to the test?