Seriously Apple! Enough!

[edublogger]

Here's an example of why I find iPads trying

Year 7s needed an app for a lesson, okay it should've been requested earlier to give us more time - but you would think it would be as simple as downloading the (free) app and pushing it out to those devices *except* they are under 13 and don't have itunes accounts, so they have to bring them individually to us for apps to be installed - this caused disruption to the lesson. Okay with better planning this could've been avoided but it's so frustrating.

 

A lot of my frustration with iPads comes from the fact that most of this hassle exists purely to retain Apple's control over the eco-system. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to pull down a packaged app and distribute it in any way I see fit. All of the Apple Configurator management is bolted on, and was clearly not built into the OS from the ground up, and MDM is so restrictive to the MDM provider as to be barely usable by the admin.

[rad]

I have a bank of 16 iPads the RE teacher managed for a year os so then left in July last year. It took 7 months before they asked for help, to which I reset them all back to factory settings and updated them. Students had been foolish with them, using the camera and changing the backgrounds etc. Once even accessed websites it shouldnt.... which led me on to how they did it.

 

They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only. Why you say, because there is no MDM solution that allows you to configure an iPad how you want. You cant stop them "hot Spotting" to their own phones, you cant lock down everything how you can in a windows environment.

 

The 35 iPads have been ready since the Easter Holidays.... still not handed over cos they have possibly forgotten about them!

[APMerry]

They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only.

 

I'm getting requests like this more often, staff want them for quick on-line research during lessons. First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.

[mthomas08]

I have a bank of 16 iPads the RE teacher managed for a year os so then left in July last year. It took 7 months before they asked for help, to which I reset them all back to factory settings and updated them. Students had been foolish with them, using the camera and changing the backgrounds etc. Once even accessed websites it shouldnt.... which led me on to how they did it.

 

They then decided to buy 35 using another budget, mainly for English for them to do their reading test on. I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only. Why you say, because there is no MDM solution that allows you to configure an iPad how you want. You cant stop them "hot Spotting" to their own phones, you cant lock down everything how you can in a windows environment.

 

The 35 iPads have been ready since the Easter Holidays.... still not handed over cos they have possibly forgotten about them!

 

I am sure something here will be your fault or what you want from them. A few people here nailed it on hard that it's down to us to say how we want to control them. Apple can't argue the case that they are for home users because they have been pushing to get in to Schools and are quick to say "We will help Education any way we can".

 

It's a lot of money though just to perform an English test, I noticed here there are a lot of Netbooks scattered around the School and now they are sitting in classrooms, cupboards, cabinets and barely being touched. It's a lot of money for devices just to sit there and not after 5 years but after 2. I am in the process of working out exactly how much money this School has spent in regards to mobile devices and I'm not including our man hours.

 

The costs involved are staggering considering the main reason they walked away from PCs is cost and space. We all know that PCs can be done tidy, cost effective and don't require a ton of space. When I have finished my video editing suite Staff and especially those pro mobile devices Staff are going to be shocked at how much I spent to get a classroom setup. Not only setup but looking impressive with very limited space. My aim is to make this look like a Mac Suite as well.

 

Don't get me wrong I can see the benefit of Mobile devices, we are going tablets after all but if it doesn't work out well enough I won't be afraid to say it to SLT.

[SovietRussia]

I'm getting requests like this more often, staff want them for quick on-line research during lessons. First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.

 

coz its shiny and has tv adverts [/sarcasm]

[X-13]

First question I ask "why does it have to be an iPad?" not yet heard an answer that justifies the price.

 

"...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

 

Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

 

"...because that's what we're using."

 

Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".

 

 

 

And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.

[LeMarchand]

A lot of my frustration with iPads comes from the fact that most of this hassle exists purely to retain Apple's control over the eco-system.

 

What annoys me is that they've done so well with convincing the general public that their way is best (I can remember seeing a poor review of an old WinMo phone on Amazon that complained there wasn't an App Store) and that handing near-complete control of your device to the OS Manufacturer is for your own good, that everyone is rushing to follow the same business model.

[APMerry]

"...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

 

Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

 

"...because that's what we're using."

 

Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".

 

 

 

And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.

 

That's pretty much how my conversations have gone too.

[SYNACK]

"...because we want to use [iOS specific app]"

 

Why does it have to be [iOS specific app], you ask.

 

"...because that's what we're using."

 

Degree educated and can't do better than "we're using X, because we're using X".

 

 

 

And yes, I've literally had people say things like that.

 

I have had the exact same conversation, and this one...

 

Them: We need to have App X and iPads

 

Me: Why?

 

Them: Because school Y uses App X

 

Me: If school Y paid $500 per pupil to jump off a bridge...

[Brimstone]

You might want to look at the MobilEther MDM solution by iBoss. With the iBoss MDM/ Web Filter solution, you can remove the default App Store from the iPad replacing it with a filtered version, and also blacklist certain apps so that they either cannot be installed or removing network access until the app is removed (user is informed and is effective no matter what network the user tries to take the iPad onto). MobilEther also provides the capability to tie devices to web filtering that goes wherever the device goes on any network, including 3G/4G.

 

Or if you want a solution to do this, buy an enterprise MDM solution and not something free or profile manager

[Brimstone]

That looks good, but again relying on third party for something that should be in apples MDM , it's yet another hidden cost on iPad rollout

 

Hidden costs, what rubbish

 

I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?

[DGardiner]

Or if you want a solution to do this, buy an enterprise MDM solution and not something free or profile manager

 

 

whilst i do agree with this, Meraki MDM is pretty decent and i have few issues with it - however i have light speed coming in this afternoon to have a chat about their offering as it looks a lot better and suited to education environments.

 

oh, i also wish apple would move away from apple accounts as the authentication for these devices i know this works well for teachers/adults but i am not creating 300 email accounts for children(primary) just to please you!

Edited June 5, 2014 by DGardiner

[X-13]

Hidden costs, what rubbish

 

I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?

 

False equivalence.

 

You buy a new windows computer and you can just whack it on the network. Network drives, remote management of software/users. No fuss.

 

You buy an iPad and you can't. Not without paying for a MDM solution.

 

 

Both iPads and Windows computers have paid and free software.

[SYNACK]

Hidden costs, what rubbish

 

I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?

 

Hmm, but you don't need to buy SCCM to install an application on a couple of computers without touching them and computers at least have the assumption that some infrastructure may be required.

 

iPads 'just work' which is complete rubbish and because of that all these costs are not put forward at all to begin with. Also you expect a tool to be able to do its job at least a little, Apples MDM is junk and can barely make a dent in the configurability anyway even if it does work that one day or so.

 

You also don't need to go and buy a bunch of very specific hardware then layer on more and more management just to get the basics. You get Windows Server and with AD it manages Windows clients, if it does not do something you want it to you can script it. Apple is different, like a Porche dealer, every little thing is extra and if your really lucky they will charge you double for a version with all the features stripped out that's 'cooler'.

[abillybob]

Hidden costs, what rubbish

 

I suppose you buy Windows computers then moan about the "hidden cost" of software applications to run on them do you?

 

 

*ahem*

[DGardiner]

False equivalence.

 

You buy a new windows computer and you can just whack it on the network. Network drives, remote management of software/users. No fuss.

 

You buy an iPad and you can't. Not without paying for a MDM solution.

 

 

Both iPads and Windows computers have paid and free software.

 

I've just had light speed in to talk about their MDM solution not 5 minutes ago, its about £5 per device, thats the equivalent of a windows CAL albeit paid every year but its not really that much of an extra cost IMO.

[abillybob]

I've just had light speed in to talk about their MDM solution not 5 minutes ago, its about £5 per device, thats the equivalent of a windows CAL albeit paid every year but its not really that much of an extra cost IMO.

 

£5 x 200 devices is an extra £1000 annually seems enough for me to get annoyed about it. It wouldn't be so bad if you have 30 iPads though unlike my school.

[X-13]

I've just had light speed in to talk about their MDM solution not 5 minutes ago, its about £5 per device, thats the equivalent of a windows CAL albeit paid every year but its not really that much of an extra cost IMO.

 

[i'm not a licencing expert] Isn't there also some sort of connection license you need as well, if you plan on connecting it to a windows network?

 

I remember seeing something like that being brought up with Linux machines on a Windows network.

[edublogger]

All of this comes down to expectations and planning.

 

If your view of iPads is they "just work", you're going to be very disappointed when you try to deploy them in any significant number. But the same is true of Windows. If you buy 100 Windows desktops and put them into a completely fresh network with no domain controller or SCCM you're likewise going to struggle.

 

There are a lot of problems with iPad management, but most of them can be resolved to some extent with a little planning and research.

[caffrey]

I'm not just digging at apple for hidden costs, Google has a 15 quid fee per device too to be managed iirc. Just seems like everything you need to do involves some extra expense with apple - I've bought my mac mini to manage my iPads with profile manager, oh the server app is 15 quid etc...

[DGardiner]

I'm not just digging at apple for hidden costs, Google has a 15 quid fee per device too to be managed iirc. Just seems like everything you need to do involves some extra expense with apple - I've bought my mac mini to manage my iPads with profile manager, oh the server app is 15 quid etc...

 

its £15....

 

you also don't require the server app, you can use plenty of other free cloud based MDM options. its all down to what you expect to get for the price you pay - hell you can even use configurator to "manage them" for free, it just ends up giving you a boatload of extra work. and then it comes down to is it cheaper to buy the mdm solution or pay you for the time it takes to manage them manually.

[SYNACK]

All of this comes down to expectations and planning.

 

If your view of iPads is they "just work", you're going to be very disappointed when you try to deploy them in any significant number. But the same is true of Windows. If you buy 100 Windows desktops and put them into a completely fresh network with no domain controller or SCCM you're likewise going to struggle.

 

There are a lot of problems with iPad management, but most of them can be resolved to some extent with a little planning and research.

 

I don't think it is any of our views that they just work but it is the view of the people who push for and buy them, largely thanks to the amount or misinformation that gets fed about them. At least it seems to have worked its way through that managing pcs is a good idea, iPads, that whole half the investment thing is left out in favour of 'but its what plants crave'.

[Brimstone]

Principle 7 of the Data Protection Act (my emphisis)

 

"Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data."

 

I doubt any court in the land will accept "it's down to the teacher" as a defence.

 

 

Thats why you invest in a decent MDM solution that can wipe the device remotely, if you want to control app data then you invest in an Enterprise level MDM and policies to control this as well, there are plenty of solutions to do this

[Brimstone]

Hmm, but you don't need to buy SCCM to install an application on a couple of computers without touching them and computers at least have the assumption that some infrastructure may be required.

 

iPads 'just work' which is complete rubbish and because of that all these costs are not put forward at all to begin with. Also you expect a tool to be able to do its job at least a little, Apples MDM is junk and can barely make a dent in the configurability anyway even if it does work that one day or so.

 

You also don't need to go and buy a bunch of very specific hardware then layer on more and more management just to get the basics. You get Windows Server and with AD it manages Windows clients, if it does not do something you want it to you can script it. Apple is different, like a Porche dealer, every little thing is extra and if your really lucky they will charge you double for a version with all the features stripped out that's 'cooler'.

 

"Apples MDM is Junk"

I totally agree with you but what do you expect from an app that costs £13.00 in the UK?

 

I've never said on here that "iPads just work"

 

There are too many schools buying iPads without thought or planning involved (and involving IT admins from the start) and then buying them from "so called" iPad resellers that know absolutely nothing about iOS and have no credentials when it comes to explaining about the infrastructure required to properly manage and deploy them.

 

If you want a MDM solution that you would be more familiar with then don't look for some thing that has to run on Mac OS, both of these below are Enterprise level solutions and "just work" I'm sure it's likely you may have looked at either of these already...

 

Mobile device management | Microsoft

Enterprise Mobility Management | Devices | Workspace | Apps | Content | Email | Browsing | AirWatch

[seawolf]

Nope, we had a proper domain .schXXX I believe.

 

It wasn't the serving of accounts that was the slow bit - it was the responsiveness of the actual hardware itself. Copying a file from one disk to the other would give speeds of less than 30Mbps, which is ridiculous. Opening the Server.app was slow for example.

 

Sound like you had a dying hard drive. They don't go that slow.