Seriously Apple! Enough!

[seawolf]

Here's an example of why I find iPads trying

Year 7s needed an app for a lesson, okay it should've been requested earlier to give us more time - but you would think it would be as simple as downloading the (free) app and pushing it out to those devices *except* they are under 13 and don't have itunes accounts, so they have to bring them individually to us for apps to be installed - this caused disruption to the lesson. Okay with better planning this could've been avoided but it's so frustrating.

 

This example only demonstrates the lack of preparedness and organisation of the teacher and nothing more.

 

If a teacher came to me just before or during a lesson wanting me to push out a bit of software for ANY device whether it be a PC, Mac, iPad, Android tablet, or anything else I would tell them to go to Plan B - because it wouldn't be happening, not ever. Do it once, even if it is possible, and you've just created a rod for your back. Even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea because if its a new bit of software you (1) should really be testing it first; and, (2) should be considering the impact on your network of a bunch of devices downloading software all at once.

[seawolf]

A lot of my frustration with iPads comes from the fact that most of this hassle exists purely to retain Apple's control over the eco-system. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to pull down a packaged app and distribute it in any way I see fit. All of the Apple Configurator management is bolted on, and was clearly not built into the OS from the ground up, and MDM is so restrictive to the MDM provider as to be barely usable by the admin.

 

You should take the leap to Android then. Enjoy the malware...

[seawolf]

I got this set up using the Apple configurator and have locked them down to Safari only. Why you say, because there is no MDM solution that allows you to configure an iPad how you want. You cant stop them "hot Spotting" to their own phones, you cant lock down everything how you can in a windows environment.

 

iBoss MDM (MobilEther) can lock down iPads to a great extent. Even removing the App Store, heavily restricting what can be installed, and forcing web filtering on the iPad no matter what network a student tries to connect it to (including their phone) try as they might.

[seawolf]

Hmm, but you don't need to buy SCCM to install an application on a couple of computers without touching them and computers at least have the assumption that some infrastructure may be required.

 

You don't need to buy an MDM solution to install a couple of apps on an iPad without "touching" them. You just use Configurator. "But wait, that means I have to buy a Mac" you say. OK, so how do you manage the PC without a server? Because without a server, you are still at best using Remote Desktop and then "touching" the computer from afar. Same same.

 

iPads 'just work' which is complete rubbish and because of that all these costs are not put forward at all to begin with. Also you expect a tool to be able to do its job at least a little, Apples MDM is junk and can barely make a dent in the configurability anyway even if it does work that one day or so.

 

For the consumer, who is the largest purchaser of computers by far - iPads do just work. Nothing "just works" on a mass deployment scale without considerable work on the backend. Even Chromebooks require an existing Google Apps account and a reasonable amount of setup to get everything just right.

 

You also don't need to go and buy a bunch of very specific hardware then layer on more and more management just to get the basics. You get Windows Server and with AD it manages Windows clients, if it does not do something you want it to you can script it. Apple is different, like a Porche dealer, every little thing is extra and if your really lucky they will charge you double for a version with all the features stripped out that's 'cooler'.

 

So, let's see you just "get" (i.e. buy) a Windows server (but no special hardware required...oops wait) and licensing including CALs (don't forget those), spend a considerable amount of time configuring it, setting up DNS, DHCP, AD, GPOs, WDS, etc. Test, test, test. Tweak this, tweak that. Oh, wait you've never setup a Windows AD server before - pay someone to do it (so you don't stuff it up). Test, test, test. Tweak this, tweak that. If it doesn't do something you want it to, you can script it (except for Windows RT, which requires an MDM type solution...er em.)

 

Yep, just works out of the box.

 

Or, you just "get" (i.e. buy) a Mac to function as a server, pay $20 for Server.app and nothing for CALs. Spend a considerable amount of time configuring it, setting up DNS, DHCP, OD, Profile Manager, DeployStudio, etc. Test, test, test. Tweak this, tweak that. Oh wait you've never setup a Mac server before - pay someone to do it (so you don't stuff it up). Test, test, test. Tweak this, tweak that. If it doesn't do something you want it to, you can script it (for Macs not iPads)

 

So, in the real world management of all devices on a mass scale takes some actual hardware and considerable effort. Imagine that. Those CALs can cost a pretty penny for the Windows server too.

Edited June 6, 2014 by seawolf

[caffrey]

This example only demonstrates the lack of preparedness and organisation of the teacher and nothing more.

 

If a teacher came to me just before or during a lesson wanting me to push out a bit of software for ANY device whether it be a PC, Mac, iPad, Android tablet, or anything else I would tell them to go to Plan B - because it wouldn't be happening, not ever. Do it once, even if it is possible, and you've just created a rod for your back. Even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea because if its a new bit of software you (1) should really be testing it first; and, (2) should be considering the impact on your network of a bunch of devices downloading software all at once.

 

I totally agree, but at the end of the day I put curriculum delivery first, it is after all what the school is there for regardless of whose fault it is.

[Bananas]

You should take the leap to Android then. Enjoy the malware...

 

I've been using Android from almost the beginning and I've NEVER had any malware. It's the same as computers, if you're stupid and do stupid things you might get burnt.

 

At least Android users aren't finding themselves locked out of their phones nor encountering imessage hijacking their sms messages if they change phone.

[localzuk]

Sound like you had a dying hard drive. They don't go that slow.

 

I do know how to do my job you know. You think I didn't do hardware checks?

[seawolf]

I've been using Android from almost the beginning and I've NEVER had any malware. It's the same as computers, if you're stupid and do stupid things you might get burnt.

 

So, do you really think the average joe knows what they are doing when it comes to computers? Android has the highest level of malware in the wild by far of all mobile OS. Unless you aren't letting the staff and students download whatever apps they like (filtering them), then it is they not you who are the ones who will do stupid with bells on.

 

Android still triggers the most mobile malware, says F-Secure - CNET

 

At least Android users aren't finding themselves locked out of their phones nor encountering imessage hijacking their sms messages if they change phone.

 

I didn't realise that people having their iCloud account compromised because they used the same password on every site they visited or had their data stolen from one of the myriad of hacks that have targeted Target, eBay, Yahoo, etc. was indicative of a security issue with iOS? The problem with iMessage also has nothing to do with malware or hacking, but is an iMessage bug.

[seawolf]

I do know how to do my job you know. You think I didn't do hardware checks?

 

I'm very sure you can do your job. However, I also know the attitude of most Windows admins is to attribute any issue with a piece of Apple hardware or software to "Apple gear just sucks!" rather than doing the same type of troubleshooting they would do on a PC. I know from a significant amount of experience that i7 Mac Minis don't run as slow as you describe unless there is something wrong with them either in a hardware problem, network issue (DNS issues or .local domain), or more rarely a problem with an application or a corrupt account - as it is not normal.

[seawolf]

I totally agree, but at the end of the day I put curriculum delivery first, it is after all what the school is there for regardless of whose fault it is.

 

An app on an iPad constitutes curriculum delivery? If schools are there to teach kids how to use a particular piece of software or are dependant on a particular piece of software to teach, then it is a slippery slope we are going down indeed. Perhaps its time to wind back the amount of technology we have going into our schools.

[Brimstone]

This is how it is done...

 

600 x iPad refresh in 2 and half hours (please note the complete lack of IT at all in the roll out to students, albeit work was done beforehand by them)

 

[X-13]

This is how it is done...

 

The Device Enrollment Program is available to qualifying businesses, K–12 public and private schools, 
colleges, and universities in the United States that purchase iPad, iPhone, or Mac directly from Apple.

 

https://www.apple.com/iphone/business/docs/DEP_Business_Guide_EN_Feb14.pdf

[caffrey]

Try https://deploy.apple.com and choose UK , then choose USA.

 

That video says "the ability to quickly load content and device settings" ;p

Edited June 6, 2014 by caffrey

[mthomas08]

I've been using Android from almost the beginning and I've NEVER had any malware. It's the same as computers, if you're stupid and do stupid things you might get burnt.

 

At least Android users aren't finding themselves locked out of their phones nor encountering imessage hijacking their sms messages if they change phone.

 

We have Students using them (fully their own and no MDM) with zero issues of Malware so far on any Tablet. I just wish I could say the same for our Netbooks.

We also have 20 Staff currently using School owned Tablets and come September we will have around 200 Students using Android Tablets.

 

I have been in contact with other Schools who have some Android devices and they have reported no problems. I would rather though listen to real experiences instead of "Article says so". Actually come to think of it I would rather see it for my self. Our Year 7, 8, 9 and Post16 are allowed to bring in their own devices and the only ones who have had Malware/problems are those who purchased Windows Netbooks. We have had zero iPads or Android Tablets in the door with Malware problems. And no they are not managed.

 

The real test as mentioned for us is going to be September and in January I will have a report ready on how its gone if its a success or not. That report will be passed on to SLT and like my netbook one free for anyone on here that wants it. Our Tablets will not be managed but is always an option depending the year goes.

 

edit: for info one of our biggest problems with Windows Netbooks (no management) is Malware problems and no matter what free scanners exist they still get through. We have even resorted to Students using a 2nd account with cut down basic user access to fix the issues but still doesn't stop everything. If some one wants to complain about Malware it should have M$ in the subject.

Edited June 6, 2014 by mthomas08

[d0pefish]

However, I also know the attitude of most Windows admins is to attribute any issue with a piece of Apple hardware or software to "Apple gear just sucks!" rather than doing the same type of troubleshooting they would do on a PC.

 

I too like to tar all Windows admins with the same brush I accuse them of tarring me with.

[mthomas08]

I too like to tar all Windows admins with the same brush I accuse them of tarring me with.

 

Thing is though anyone who criticises Apple is immediately accused of being Pro Windows. Anyone who criticises Windows isn't immediately accused of being Pro Apple. Bit of a difference. Some of the issues people have with Apple has nothing to do with how Apple/Windows talk to each other in fact at times its more on the price of Apple devices.

 

I my self have spent the last 6-7 months being a Google man, there is also several other posters in this discussion right now in the same boat.

[abillybob]

This is how it is done...

 

600 x iPad refresh in 2 and half hours (please note the complete lack of IT at all in the roll out to students, albeit work was done beforehand by them)

 

 

Pfft you'd need to have a lot of staff dedicated to doing all that and be able to take 2 hours out of their day including the students to do something like this. This proves nothing there's a big difference between that as a very large high school in America and my little primary school in england with one IT tech, me.

 

I couldn't do anything like this and I'm sure neither could a lot of people on here so your comment is invalid!

 

I should also mentioned they're using 1:1 deployment with individual AppleID's not a lot of schools can do this either if we could all afford that kind of setup there wouldn't be any issues I don't understand what your comment has to do with anything mentioned in this thread.

[Arthur]

This proves nothing

@Brimstone's video shows that if you purchase iPads through Apple's Device Enrollment Program it will save you lots of time.

 

Until now, the best practice for deploying institutionally-owned devices was to put them into supervision mode using Apple Configurator and either deploy apps at the same time or later via Mobile Device Management (MDM). This required an admin to handle each device and physically connect it to a Mac with a USB cable.

 

The Device Enrolment Program basically takes that best practice but moves it into Apple's device activation servers.

 

DEP provides four major advantages over cabled deployment:

 

• A device can be supervised over-the-air
  
• Users can be presented with a simplified version of the setup assistant
  
• Devices can be automatically enrolled in your institution's MDM
  
• MDM enrolment can be locked
  

Those four improvements go a long way to making a deployment easy and scaleable. You, as an admin, don't have to touch a device at all to roll it out. Just assign them to users, have the users open them up and start configuring them and you'll have supervised devices with MDM enrolment automatically enforced.

 

After that, you're into essentially the same mode of operation that you'd normally be in with an MDM-based deployment. (Source)

Edited June 6, 2014 by Arthur

[X-13]

@Brimstone's video shows that if you purchase iPad's through Apple's Device Enrollment Program it will save you lots of time.

 

Except it's only for American schools, so a lot of us can't use DEP.

 

It WAS a pointless video.

Edited June 6, 2014 by X-13

[Arthur]

Except @abillybob isn't at an American school, so he can't use DEP.

I know.

 

Obviously it's something to keep in mind for the future when DEP is available in the UK though.

[abillybob]

Except it's only for American schools, so a lot of us can't use DEP.

 

It WAS a pointless video.

 

Exactly this. This is why I pointed our they are an American High School, I'm not I'm a British Primary School!

[X-13]

Obviously it's something to keep in mind for the future when DEP is available in the UK though.

 

True, but this isn't the future.

 

You can't claim iPADs are easy to manage thanks to DEP, when you can't USE DEP.

[fiza]

Apple's sales team to education needs to be put to death.

 

You're not Jeremy Clarkson are you?

[caffrey]

You're not Jeremy Clarkson are you?

 

I didn't see any alleged racism

 

So how much time at wwdc was devoted to education ?

[fiza]

I didn't see any alleged racism

 

So how much time at wwdc was devoted to education ?

 

I was referring more to this Jeremy Clarkson: 'execute' public sector workers, says BBC Top Gear host - Telegraph