Stop Calling Teachers 'Miss' Or 'Sir', Pupils Are Told - Telegraph

[Bompalompalomp]

Half the staff can't even remember my last name and call me my first name in front of their classes all the time. It's really annoying but only because it leads to the kids forgetting what my name is because they don't want to call me by my first name or call me Ant Hill. Which means I'm forever The Computer Lady...

 

And at 19, I'd be kind of insulted if they called me Ma'am or Mrs!

[smithson83]

Most of our kids call everyone "Miss", including me and most of the other male members of staff. Doesn't bother me...

[Ghostgame]

The use of sir and miss is perhaps the easiest way to get a teachers attention especially encase of an emergency.

[rad]

I hate been called a teacher, sod the Mr/Sir thing

 

I did DofE 2 weekends ago, and half way round on day one got fed up of the kids calling me Mr ____ I asked them to call me by my first name.

DofE leader is known to the kids by his first name only

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I hate been called a teacher, sod the Mr/Sir thing

 

I did DofE 2 weekends ago, and half way round on day one got fed up of the kids calling me Mr ____ I asked them to call me by my first name.

DofE leader is known to the kids by his first name only

[LosOjos]

I don't this this shows a lack of respect on the part of pupils, after all a name is simply a way of verbally distinguishing one person from another it does not serve as the source of some mystical name based respect - respect between adults and children must be earned as much as is true between adults and adults.

 

I totally agree that respect is earned and not a right (in fact I was considered a "problem" child at school for pointing this amongst other things out!) . Your school's circumstances are quite different to others and I respect that, however I do think that in a lot of schools using some sort of formal title when addressing your superiors* instils a certain level of respect in that it reinforces the notion that this person is in charge, they're not one of your peers so you probably shouldn't talk to them like one.

 

I'm not saying that students will automatically lose respect for their teachers simply because they don't address them by title, but it blurs the line between "authoritative figure" and "peer", which can in turn make it very difficult to discipline children when necessary as they don't have the pre-conceived notion of authority.

 

Of course all children are different but the sad thing is, I think things like this need to be thought of in terms of how the disrespectful children will see it, the respectful ones will remain respectful either way...

 

* before I get a barrage of "what makes you think you're superior" posts, I'm talking strictly in an authoritarian context here and in no way implying that I/adults are superior human beings!

[elsiegee40]

Even my own children have called me Mrs $surname or Miss in school when I have been there in an official capacity. They never calked me Mum. Their friends, on first name terms with me out of school, do likewise as do the countless guides, scouts, dancers, etc who have crossed my path. By and large most people, including the youngest, are able to switch to the most appropriate name for the circumstance.

 

Years ago, although I was the IT tech, I ended up being a TA in my son's year 1 class during an ofsted inspection as their regular TA was in hospital. The class teacher sat them on the carpet and reminded them that, whatever they normally called me, Nick's mummy was to be called Mrs $surname that day! They all managed it!

[abillybob]

Half the staff can't even remember my last name and call me my first name in front of their classes all the time. It's really annoying but only because it leads to the kids forgetting what my name is because they don't want to call me by my first name or call me Ant Hill. Which means I'm forever The Computer Lady...

 

And at 19, I'd be kind of insulted if they called me Ma'am or Mrs!

 

I'm 20 and I don't mind being called Sir.

 

I think it all comes down to your own personal opinions and we'd be having the same debate if kids forever called us by our first names as some people would prefer to be addressed in other ways!

[pete]

Here, kids tend to use Sir/Miss, Mr/Miss/Mrs Lastname or occasionally Mr/Miss/Mrs LastInitial, it depends on what stage of the conversation they're at and teacher preference.

[pcstru]

Our students used first names for staff for many years. I think our experience would support the view that it can confuse students WRT authority, but I don't think it's as strong as being a direct cause of behaviour issues.

[Garacesh]

Here, kids tend to use Sir/Miss, Mr/Miss/Mrs Lastname or occasionally Mr/Miss/Mrs LastInitial, it depends on what stage of the conversation they're at and teacher preference.

 

I'd be happy with "Mr. $Initial", but considering my line manager and the head share the same last initial, that may not be the best solution Sir is good enough for me.

[AMLinington]

Yet another example of declining standards in schools. How can you command the respect of your pupils when they're using your first name? Referring to your teachers as Mr/Mrs/Miss Surname is an HONORIFIC. It denotes respect and authority. I personally didn't care whether my students called me Miss Lightfoot or Mrs Lightfoot (although the misprinted name badge of 'Mr Lightfoot' was a step too far) as long as they spoke to me with the respect appropriate to a person of authority in the classroom.

 

Eurgh. Guardianistas.

 

If the feminists are that bothered by 'Miss' then why don't we revert to calling all teachers 'Teacher'. 'Excuse me Teacher, please assist me.' There are historical and social precedents (I may be incorrect but aren't Jewish and Muslim religious leaders or social leaders referred to as 'Teacher' as an honorific?), it's gender neutral, respectful and descriptive of the persons role. Perfect.

 

It even works with Surnames so teachers can be referred to as 'Teacher Jones' or 'Teacher Smith'. More than one teacher with the same surname might be complicated but no more so than currently where two teachers are the same gender and have the same surname. Teacher A Jones and Teacher B Jones are still acceptable.

[abillybob]

If the feminists are that bothered by 'Miss' then why don't we revert to calling all teachers 'Teacher'. 'Excuse me Teacher, please assist me.' There are historical and social precedents (I may be incorrect but aren't Jewish and Muslim religious leaders or social leaders referred to as 'Teacher' as an honorific?), it's gender neutral, respectful and descriptive of the persons role. Perfect.

 

It even works with Surnames so teachers can be referred to as 'Teacher Jones' or 'Teacher Smith'. More than one teacher with the same surname might be complicated but no more so than currently where two teachers are the same gender and have the same surname. Teacher A Jones and Teacher B Jones are still acceptable.

 

I agree although what would they call ICT Technician is a bit of a long-winded word than teacher, I watched a documentary film on feminism last weekend about how women where apparently being mistreated when playing Video Games and in the magazines by the BBC. It was all one sided and was all a pile of rubbish the girlfriend agreed. I think this feminism gets a bit too far at stages and then begins to sound like a bunch of old women preaching because they're bored.

This program showed a 15-16 years old girl playing a video game, the girl would kill someone and the boy she killed would call her nasty names and stuff though the BBC going all one sided to the argument didn't show a boy playing the same game killing a person and getting abuse as well. Men also get abuse on video games as much as women do especially when playing hostile games it's just how people are it DOESN'T mean that women are being mistreated!

[Garacesh]

I agree although what would they call ICT Technician is a bit of a long-winded word than teacher, I watched a documentary film on feminism last weekend about how women where apparently being mistreated when playing Video Games and in the magazines by the BBC. It was all one sided and was all a pile of rubbish the girlfriend agreed. I think this feminism gets a bit too far at stages and then begins to sound like a bunch of old women preaching because they're bored.

This program showed a 15-16 years old girl playing a video game, the girl would kill someone and the boy she killed would call her nasty names and stuff though the BBC going all one sided to the argument didn't show a boy playing the same game killing a person and getting abuse as well. Men also get abuse on video games as much as women do especially when playing hostile games it's just how people are it DOESN'T mean that women are being mistreated!

 

Exactly this. Instead of b**ch, sl*t and 'Get back in the kitchen' we get f****t, 'kill yourself' etc. Abuse happens on both sides. I will agree it's much more targeted towards gender when it's a woman, though, whereas it's often generic or sexual orientation when it's a man, which certainly does make it come across as much more personal, which results in a much more negative impact.

 

I know a rather outspoken feminist girl who posts up a lot of things on facebook that I have challenged her on in numerous occasions. Recently she posted up an article on people saying 'Not all men $action', in response to a video called 'Things men say to lesbians'. I politely pointed out that the video in question actually had no beneficial discussion (such as other videos, for example, 'Why do some guys hit on lesbians?') and was simply just a string of (portrayed, though I have no way of approving or disproving) quotes. I explained that when feminists declare 'Men' they are generalising a whole populous and some of us who are part of that populous but don't do whatever it is they're complaining about feel the need to defend ourselves against attacks. Apparently I "just missed the point".

 

But we're not allowed to generalise "women". Oh no, that would be terrible. Grr.

 

I don't even see why 'feminism' exists. By calling it 'Feminism' it by name rejects men, whether they say they want that or not. I support women's rights just as much as I support men's rights. I don't think a woman should feel forced to shave her legs or wear makeup and as I support the bloke that does wear makeup and get rid of any body hair he doesn't like. I'm as anti-rape as you can get against men, women and transgender alike. I am not a feminist.

 

Y'know what I call that? 'Being a good person.'

Edited May 14, 2014 by Garacesh

[localzuk]

Exactly this. Instead of b**ch, sl*t and 'Get back in the kitchen' we get f****t, 'kill yourself' etc. Abuse happens on both sides. I will agree it's much more targeted towards gender when it's a woman, though, whereas it's often generic or sexual orientation when it's a man.

 

I know a rather outspoken feminist girl who posts up a lot of things on facebook that I have challenged her on in numerous occasions. Recently she posted up an article on people saying 'Not all men $action', in response to a video called 'Things men say to lesbians'. I politely pointed out that the video in question actually had no beneficial discussion (such as other videos, for example, 'Why do some guys hit on lesbians?') and was simply just a string of (portrayed, though I have no way of approving or disproving) quotes. I explained that when feminists declare 'Men' they are generalising a whole populous and some of us who are part of that populous but don't do whatever it is they're complaining about feel the need to defend ourselves against attacks. Apparently I "just missed the point".

 

But we're not allowed to generalise "women". Oh no, that would be terrible. Grr.

 

I don't even see why 'feminism' exists. By calling it 'Feminism' it by name rejects men, whether they say they want that or not. I support women's rights just as much as I support men's rights. I don't think a woman should feel forced to shave her legs or wear makeup as much as I support the bloke that does wear makeup and get rid of any body hair he doesn't like. I'm as anti-rape as you can get against men, women and transgender alike. I am not a feminist.

 

Y'know what I call that? 'Being a good person.'

 

This is why I actually dislike the term "feminism" - it has and is morphing into a female form of chauvinism, which is not what it is supposed to be about. To me, feminism was about equality. Equal rights for both genders. So, I consider myself more of an "equalist" than a feminist. Generalisations about either gender are not good for anyone.

 

An example is the age old toilet seat argument - men often get slated for leaving the seat up. Yet, it is exactly the same amount of effort for either gender to adjust to their needs. Why is it the man's fault for leaving it up? Why not the woman's fault for leaving it down? In actuality, it is neither, as it is a shared place so the only real need is for cleanliness and tidiness, from both genders...

 

That thinking extends to an awful lot of situations in our lives that seem to often end up with men being hammered when logic would dictate that both parties are equals, and therefore behaviour should be tailored based on that equality.

[Crumpet]

Has anyone been on The Guardian Newspaper website lately?

 

They have an almost daily feminist outrage article ranting over just about anything that can be claimed sexist or against women. It's laughably pathetic on times.

[localzuk]

Has anyone been on The Guardian Newspaper website lately?

 

They have an almost daily feminist outrage article ranting over just about anything that can be claimed sexist or against women. It's laughably pathetic on times.

 

Indeed, and they regularly get called out on it in their comments section - especially when 2 articles contradict each other (which seems to happen with alarming regularity). Often, the articles seem to attack men as a way to try to promote equality, which seems a little odd.

[Garacesh]

This is why I actually dislike the term "feminism" - it has and is morphing into a female form of chauvinism, which is not what it is supposed to be about. To me, feminism was about equality. Equal rights for both genders. So, I consider myself more of an "equalist" than a feminist. Generalisations about either gender are not good for anyone.

I have said this many times. 'Equalism' or 'Equalist' would be a much better movement. Even by name it gives off a much better 'feel'.

 

An example is the age old toilet seat argument - men often get slated for leaving the seat up. Yet, it is exactly the same amount of effort for either gender to adjust to their needs. Why is it the man's fault for leaving it up? Why not the woman's fault for leaving it down? In actuality, it is neither, as it is a shared place so the only real need is for cleanliness and tidiness, from both genders...

Well statistically, in an environment of equal numbers, there's a 3-in-4 chance the seat will need to be down (not accounting for the frequency of pee vs poop), but that's just me being comically pedantic. I do agree with you. It's a silly argument. My ex once brought it up, my response was to the degree of "You're all grown up now, you can hold it long enough to put the seat down."

 

It's a shame. I understand why feminism began. I bear no grudge against its forefathersmothers for what they were trying to achieve. But, unfortunately, there are the vocals that 'take it too far' and give the entire movement a bad name.

[elsiegee40]

In years gone by women had a big fight on to be treated as equal members of society. They couldn't vote. Were expected to give up work when they married. Got paid less than men doing the same jobs. Were barred from many professions.

 

And all these things didn't stop that long ago. A colleague of mine told me that he was offered cash by his wife's employer in the 1970s for her to have an abortion because if she had a child they would not have her back to work and they actually wanted her to carry on working.

 

As a young Mum in the mid 1990s working in technical support for a major insurer, I had no end of problems caused by me being the first member of staff in the office ever to take maternity leave and then need to adjust my working life around my family. The law was in place, but the office attitudes weren't!

 

Feminism is grounded in such inequalities and sadly, in some sectors of society, there are still some people who persist in actions that discriminate against women. It is MUCH better in the UK now then it was even 20 years ago. Unfortunately, as with all political views, some feminists take too hard a line and that results in them alienating people against their cause, even other women! It is a shame when hard-liners of any cause damage the good work done by so many in promoting tolerance and equality.

[X-13]

Often, the articles seem to attack men as a way to try to promote equality, which seems a little odd.

 

Not really. The feminist movement is quickly turning into a fight for female supremacy.

 

 

I have said this many times. 'Equalism' or 'Equalist' would be a much better movement. Even by name it gives off a much better 'feel'.

 

Not to me... I watch Avatar.

 

Equalists - Avatar Wiki, the Avatar: The Last Airbender resource

[Bompalompalomp]

I feel like this is a good time to point out that the original topic was not about feminism and that a couple of glorified blog writers for a tabloid disguised as a newspaper are not a spokesperson for the equality movement. It seems like a good idea to sway the thread from this endless argument over semantics.

[Tesla]

Not really. The feminist movement is quickly turning into a fight for female supremacy.

 

 

 

Reminds me of a joke i read once...

 

I don't understand why women want to be equal when they could be better. That shows a lack of ambition to me. Which is why men are better.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Tesla

[pcstru]

Feminism is grounded in such inequalities and sadly, in some sectors of society, there are still some people who persist in actions that discriminate against women. It is MUCH better in the UK now then it was even 20 years ago. Unfortunately, as with all political views, some feminists take too hard a line and that results in them alienating people against their cause, even other women! It is a shame when hard-liners of any cause damage the good work done by so many in promoting tolerance and equality.

 

The facts speak for themselves. Pay for women is less. Women make up only 15% of board members in FTSE100 companies. Only 22% of MP are female and in the house of lords, we have representatives of organisations who are allowed to vote on policy but who's churches ban women from holding high office within those organisations.

 

So yes, you could have "equalism" and object to "feminism" but until these facts and others change, then we are living in a misogynistic society which does not value equality for women, and in that society I hope I remain a feminist.

[TechSupp]

Thin end of wedge! One school I work for the head had all first names added to the website as he said it made teachers more approachable, letters had to be signed with a first name as well, however in class we are all Mr or Miss or Mrs from the kids. I prefer the Mr title, not sure, in fact I don't agree with the first name terms. Where has the status gone when that arrives, kids need to know where authority is and that starts with respect of elders and not using first names in school to bring us down to the same level. We are supposed to lead, how can you when they class you as the same as their mate. Rant over, going for lunch!

[abillybob]

What does annoy me is I see countless examples of feminists wanting it just one way, they want equality they have got that things like insurances now can't be based on gender, but because it puts up womens prices now on insurance feminists say it's wrong. They can't just pick and choose what suits them best, if they want equality they also have to put up with things like men do like higher insurance premiums.

 

They also spoke in the documentary how men see women as sex objects and that women are used to sell things and this is wrong. Ok so let's just tell the thousands of models, XXX Stars and magazine publishers including the Suns page 3 girls they no longer have a job anymore and to go work in an office, a lot of women like the attention and like their job in that way if women don't want to it they don't have to, men aren't actively forcing them to do this kind of thing it's their choice regardless of whether or not they can't find any other work that's no excuse and as an adult female you make up YOUR own mind to whether or not you want to enter that industry it does not mean that men again are treating you badly and see all women as sex objects. It really angered me this show and I think the BBC is going downhill on subjects like these not allowing both sides of the story to prop up, it bothered my girlfriend so much she wrote to the BBC to complain and she found it sexist towards men.

 

I think a lot of the time women can be manipulative more so towards men nowadays then the other way around, a lot of women use sex as a weapon to get something they want and others in another setting will be dominating to their work employees for example and I am yet to see a man try to challenge a powerful and strong woman.

 

This whole thing is ridiculous and I am sick and tired of ill-informed journalists and the like going on about something and not putting mens POV across or even consulting the general public and actually find out statistics and figures to see how much this is effecting the women in our society, I would suggest the percentage of women that think its "men abusing their power" will be very low.

 

Gahhhh gets me so angry!

Edited May 14, 2014 by abillybob

[Crumpet]

Indeed, and they regularly get called out on it in their comments section - especially when 2 articles contradict each other (which seems to happen with alarming regularity). Often, the articles seem to attack men as a way to try to promote equality, which seems a little odd.

 

Not to mention the articles that rant on and on, only to then put all of the blame [insert issue here] on men in the last paragraph regardless of what the issue was in the first place. I never realised how bats**t crazy some of them were until i started reading about some of their articles and beliefs online.