Stop Calling Teachers 'Miss' Or 'Sir', Pupils Are Told - Telegraph

[6Foot2]

Link: Stop calling teachers 'Miss' or 'Sir', pupils are told - Telegraph

 

Traditional teachers’ titles such as “Sir” and “Miss” should be consigned to history because they discriminate against women, according to academics.

 

Pupils should be encouraged to use teachers’ first names to bring schools up-to-date and ensure children are not exposed “to the prejudices of the previous generation”, it was claimed...

 

Our students are expected to use 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' [The latter often sounds like 'Mum']

 

I would not like students to use my forename: It just seems odd somehow.

[Arthur]

Are female teachers actually that bothered if they are addressed Miss, Ms, Mrs or Ma'am? I don't think any of ours mind being called Miss (unless they are a Dr).

 

If Miss isn't suitable, then perhaps we should switch to using Ms (a default form of address for women regardless of their marital status)?

 

Our students are expected to use 'Sir' and 'Ma'am'

Doesn't Ma'am discriminate against women too? At what age do you stop using Ma'am and start using Madam?

 

... "madam" tends to only be used when addressing the elderly, with "ma'am" being used for a younger woman. (Source)

 

It just seems odd somehow.

It's too informal.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Arthur

[elsiegee40]

At my governor school, students are expected to call teachers Sir or Miss.

 

At another school in my governor school's multi academy trust, the (female) head insists that teachers are called Mr $surname or Ms $surname and goes ballistic if she hears a female member of staff being called Mrs. She says it is demeaning to women... and, yes, she is married. When I was up there she started calling me Ms and I did not make myself popular by saying that my correct title, and the one which I was to be called, was Mrs. I probably wouldn't have been so awkward if she had been less assertive on the matter. I resisted the temptation to call her Mrs for the rest of the day!

 

So in answer to an earlier post, women do care which title is used. I have been married for 25 years and use my husband's surname. It ispolite to respect my choice of title and not force one on me. I am willing to similarly respect the decision of others and use what they prefer.

 

I will also say that I get called Miss by the students at my governor school along with the rest of the staff and don't bat an eyelid. It's fine

Edited May 14, 2014 by elsiegee40

[laserblazer]

Our previous HT disliked the use of Sir or Miss and preferred the pupils to use Mr/Mrs/Miss. Our new SENCO likes the pupils in her domain to use Sir or Miss and does so herself. I've just about got used to her calling me Sir. Funny thing is that the SEN kids seem more comfortable using Sir or Miss.

[synaesthesia]

Mixed feelings on this one. I think it just seems difficult to comprehend as the majority of us know no different. The majority of primary schools I deal with (and from what I remember of infant/junior myself) it was always Mr/Mrs Surname, and in secondary it was always Sir/Miss. However, the kids in primaries often refer to me by first name which I don't mind at all. To teachers though it may be different.

Some of our 6th form refer to us (ICT Support) by first name; I don't mind that at all bearing in mind some of them are more mature than some staff! It's still creepy when anyone younger does though (they do, and we don't like it) and I believe it should be maintained as Sir/Miss to help maintain respect and discipline. They are in fact still children and the lack of respect/discipline is more than evident in modern life, we don't need an excuse to make any of them think they're above their station or can use it for purposes of amusement.

[Arthur]

women do care which title is used.

Some women don't like being called Miss

Some women don't like being called Ms

Some women don't like being called Mrs

Some women don't like being called Ma'am

 

^ You can't please everyone.

[synaesthesia]

Well they have a point, @Arthur. I don't like being called Miss either, regardless of how perky my moobs are looking!

[Arthur]

I don't like being called Miss either

Me neither (unless I change my name to Martha).

 

If students have difficulty remembering their own passwords, how are they going to be able to remember each teachers title?

[RichCowell]

What a bunch of clowns!!! If they have to change it, what's wrong with Sir & Ma'am like one of the schools I went to?!

 

It's just another step in the direction of the dissemination of complete and utter lack of respect that's already causing issues with the youth of today! (feeling old now I've said that!)...

 

They need a bit of common sense up at the top...

[LosOjos]

Does calling female teacher's Miss really encourage "the prejudices of the previous generation"?

 

I'm sure to the kids it's a sign of respect, nor prejudice, when they call a teacher "Miss" - it's a title rather than an insult, which is as much as you can ask from some teenagers!

[RichCowell]

If students have difficulty remembering their own passwords, how are they going to be able to remember each teachers title?

 

Easier remembering titles between either Sir or Miss/Mrs/Ms, than all the individual forenames... at least if a pupil can't remember a teachers surname they can get away with just Sir or Miss...

[elsiegee40]

At my employing school, everyone is Mr/Mrs/Miss//Ms $surname; the Head insists. The school is small and the children know everyone so the title is just part of someone's name. Our reception children have trouble with Mr and most years get caught calling a male member of staff Mrs

 

The exception to the title/surname rule is a Polish TA in Reception who is called Mrs Martina... her surname is difficult for the adults, let alone the children.

 

In secondaries there are considerably more adults and the potential for getting it wrong is far greater, hence Sir and Miss

Edited May 14, 2014 by elsiegee40

[Dos_Box]

What if the the teacher has a strange first name or one that can be made fun of easily by pupils? I think keeping to the formal system is better tbh.

[pcstru]

So in answer to an earlier post, women do care which title is used. I have been married for 25 years and use my husband's surname. It ispolite to respect my choice of title and not force one on me. I am willing to similarly respect the decision of others and use what they prefer.

I think that is probably right, but there is an interesting contention in the context of a school where behaviour policy drives the choice of address. Do I respect the individuals choice or the choice of the institution? If I don't respect the choice of the institution, doesn't that send a message to students that behaviour policy is optional and can be ignored?

 

As an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should I be entitled to change my title to "Reverend"?

[elsiegee40]

I think that is probably right, but there is an interesting contention in the context of a school where behaviour policy drives the choice of address. Do I respect the individuals choice or the choice of the institution? If I don't respect the choice of the institution, doesn't that send a message to students that behaviour policy is optional and can be ignored?

 

As an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should I be entitled to change my title to "Reverend"?

 

As an employee of the institution (or governor) I am prepared to stick by its standards. Hence Miss doesn't bother me and, to be honest, it never has. It is polite. Being called Miss/Ms $surname doesn't actually worry me either as, again, the person is usally trying to be polite.

 

What I loathe is someone telling me is that my choice of title is demeaning and that therefore I will be called a different one. Have a standard to enforce behaviour , respect and manners, but don't say that standard is because my choice of title is demeaning to me! I chose it!

[GREED]

a'hem... so should the replicated throughout the UK for equality?

 

Therefore the Armed Forces are in for a shock.

 

Knighthoods are buggered.

 

This is and always has been a mild discipline keeper, worked well for ever why change it now? Lets not even wander into familiarity between students and staff...

 

Are we absolutely sure this is the Telegraph... has more of a whiff of Daily Mail to me

[CAM]

I use Miss and Mrs interchangeably, usually defaulting to Miss for informal circumstances or Mrs for more formal usage. In some cases I use Dr for a few staff members with that title. There is no political motivation behind any of it, titles are a core part of our language and shouldn't really be messed with.

 

Plus calling staff by their first names takes away the fun of watching kids try to guess staff forenames with hilarious results.

[LosOjos]

I'm just imagining is now, kids calling out "Dave" in class rather than "Sir", or "Julie" instead of "Miss". If you're called Richard or Fanny, your life in a school will be hell. Then of course there are names they can call out obscenities and claim they said your name, much to the amusement of the rest of the class I'm sure... I just can't see how using first names is going to do anything but break down the respect. Edited May 14, 2014 by LosOjos

[witch]

I think that calling adults by their first name is not right - there needs to be a "barrier" of some sort between those in authority and those being taught. If a student calls you by your first name then they are seeing you as being on their level and are less likely to follow instructions as you are a peer and not "above" them.

 

I really don't think the Miss/Mrs/Ms debate even exists. Around here, all female teachers in infant/first schools are generally called Mrs and at senior school it is Miss - never worked out why.

It might be nice if they asked each teacher what they prefer, or as you say, called them all Ms to remove any issues. @elsiegee40 It would be nice to have one's own choice respected - I am Ms - I choose to be so but nobody in either school bothers to even try and remember that.

They also have a tendency to call me by my first name in front of the students which I hate.

 

As for "Ma'am - my father was in the civil service and spent quite a lot of time with the Royal Family - he was taught that in fact you DO pronounce it closer to "mum" and "maaaaam" is completely wrong

 

@CAM How can "Mrs" be for more formal use? It is for married women whereas Miss is for single ones - how can that change depending on the situation?

Edited May 14, 2014 by witch

[GREED]

@witch so are you Ms Witch or Ms W. Itch?

 

Tehehe girly giggle

[synaesthesia]

The Miss thing is a lifesaver IMO. Far too often I forget who's married, who's not, and who prefers Ms; and I'm sure the kids aren't particularly worried. It saves embarrassment, saves the reference person from correcting or even being bothered about it and everyone just gets on with their day

[GREED]

In all schools I went to and worked in, Miss was what was used regardless, unless they used their surname and then the correct Miss or Mrs was used.

 

There is a snifter of a point in titles distinguishing women from being married or not (not Ms obviously) so can see why some would not like that. We men after all don't have such a title to tell people we are married or not (prizes for the person to come up with one!)

[localzuk]

Seems a little cart before the horse to me. The use of Miss, Mrs, Ms etc... still exists and is normal in this country. What does eliminating it in schools do if everyone else is still effectively doing it still everywhere else.

 

If it is about discrimination, then surely we should be working on eliminating it elsewhere and schools should reflect that move, not trying to lead the issue - schools don't introduce equality policy for a country.

 

However, I've always been torn by the different ways of referring to staff in schools. I used to think use of first names would be better, as it encourages a more friendly atmosphere. However, I've changed that view as I've seen the way pupils need structure and an authority figure to sort them out. So, I'm more in the "Mr Smith" "Miss Jones" camp now. I dislike Sir specifically, as it indicates an elevated stature that simply isn't there. Mr Smith is polite, Sir is grovelling.

[laserblazer]

Why did I suddenly think of this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97aB71F-430

[GREED]

Mr Smith is polite, Sir is grovelling.

 

Seems very Yes, Minister doesn't it.