Quick question: Where would you advertise to find a DM?

[JDiaz]

Hello experts,

 

What would you say is the best place to post a vacancy similar to "Data Manager"?

 

Does anyone have a story about how they found an outstanding DM (or they where found)?

 

Thanks,

 

J

 

PS: I have already posted it here on Edugeek

[Oaktech]

Poached one from another local school...

[Ecclesbury]

You'd have to be quite lucky to find an experienced data manager given there aren't that many of them around (relatively speaking) and the chances of one of them currently looking for a new job, in your area, would be pretty slim.

 

Saying that, the cynical method would be to try and poach from another school in your area!

 

A lot of adverts for this kind of role I have seen often ask for a very specific level of knowledge relating to the data manager role and I think this is the wrong way to go about it as it can turn away perfrectly good candidates. Given what I've said above I think the better thing to do is try to find someone without the specific knowledge or experience, but who is a fast learner and already has some general transferable technical skills. How to advertise and interview for THAT is another question entirely!

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Resisting bad D&D reference..... Failed.

[Domino]

Resisting bad D&D reference..... Failed.

 

Roll for 'using your own initiative'

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Roll for 'using your own initiative'

 

*Critical Failure* *proceeds to fall over and look stupid*

[LosOjos]

Speaking as a Data Manager:

 

as @Ecclesbury said, experienced school DMs are rare. Not every school has one, the vast majority that do only have one, and they're all usually quite new roles or roles that have evolved from others. Additionally, I have spoken to DMs from schools all over the country and one thing that is very clear is that no two have the same JD. Looking for experience shouldn't be your main goal here.

 

You want someone who has outstanding Excel skills, is proficient in IT in general, preferably with knowledge of DPA. MIS systems, by design, are easy to learn; anyone with decent IT skills will pick that up in no time. A short test on interview is going to be your best bet for finding "the one" - give them a sheet full of raw data (names, ethnicities, gender, exam results - all fictional of course!) and ask them to produce your usual set of analysis, 5 A*-C inc English and Maths, 5 A*-G etc. and throw in a couple of vulnerable groups too, such as White British Boys.

 

If they can do all that accurately, quickly and presented in a logical way, they're a strong contender for the post IMO.

[Oaktech]

 

Saying that, the cynical method would be to try and poach from another school in your area!

 

 

Yeah, there's our recruitment policy in a nutshell... It's how I got here, how our Data Manager got here, and our exams officer. We put an ad on the website, but usually they have someone in mind by the time they advertise.

 

If you are serious about it then it's worth an ad in TES.

[tombry]

it's funny, when I applied for the job I currently have, they titled the position "Data Manager", but I don't think they really knew what they were looking for - it took them over 4 months to find someone - and I only applied because I wasn't sure what the job was going to be either.

 

Hell, I wasn't even supposed to interview, the agency that the school placed the ad through called me up because the guy they were going to have interview canceled the night before.

 

My former Line Manager left last easter to be a deputy head at another school, and has only just found himself a data manager, after trying to poach me for the last 6 months or so (I'd have happily gone, but the pay was the same as I make now, but the commute would be an hour each way instead of the 3 mins each way I have now).

 

I'd suggest you put it down as an entry level database admin like position, and see what that brings in for interviews.

[Ecclesbury]

The other answer to this question is to offer £40,000 a year.

[JDiaz]

Very helpful and interesting answers. Thank you all. I wonder if we approached it the right way when we wrote the JD.

 

 

The other answer to this question is to offer £40,000 a year.

 

Not that far off !! It's odd because we got more interest at £30k than at £35k

[LosOjos]

Very helpful and interesting answers. Thank you all. I wonder if we approached it the right way when we wrote the JD.

 

If I lived near enough to London for the commute, I'd have applied!

 

EDIT: this bit is a problem:

 

Qualifications

 Qualified to A-Level standard or equivalent

 A degree from a technical background is preferable

 Appropriate and relevant professional qualification

 Right to work in the UK.

Experience

 Experience working with SIMS.net.

 QL Server 2005 / 2008 / 2012 experience

 The role of data in an education context

 Some experience in CMIS Facility

 Experience in a client facing role.

 

You're asking for a very high level of education there IMO - why A level and not GCSE? With a technical degree, I wouldn't be looking for a DM job (I'm working on that!). Relevant professional qualification - the only one I'm aware of is SSAT and there aren't a hell of a lot of people who have finished that yet.

 

SQL knowledge - well most SIMS users aren't allowed to touch the SQL backend for a start! Experience with SIMS.net and CMIS? Not many people can say they have that.

 

You need to loosen your requirements, I can only imagine a school data consultant having that repertoire and they'll be earning a damn site more money than your average DM.

 

Just my opinion!

Edited March 4, 2014 by LosOjos

[Seb1780]

I always find it is useful to know where the job is located; London is a big place!

[Ecclesbury]

Blimey! I notice that you're in London so that will presumably bump thing up a bit, but I am starting to notice that along with the JDs varying wildly from DM to DM, the level of pay is also pretty erratic!

 

To put things in perspective when I first started this job (advertised as 'Data Manager') I was in the £15k-£18k a year bracket! That was 5 a half years ago.

 

Very interesting about the level of pay turning people away! There must be a science to setting the right pay level.

[JDiaz]

I think you are right, LosOjos, but in my opinion person specifications are like a wish list. You write in there what your ideal candidate would have and then you see how close the people who apply are. I have never hired someone that was a perfect match and I think is more about assessing how close they are and their potential to get there.

 

The reason why we have some of those things in there -like the SQL- is because we do have other internally developed systems that we will be asking this person to support, but I totally get your point and I think the next JD I write will be very different.

 

I always find it is useful to know where the job is located; London is a big place!

Central London: Holborn

[vikpaw]

The problem is, that asking for too much will turn away many many candidates. As will probably a too high salary, as people wrongly will think they are not worthy of it.

That is not to say you should lower the salary. Sometimes it's better not to write it or put a range, so you can capture more people.

 

Is ARK the place down in Holborn ? Where @bringmoredata works..? That Tableau tool looks cool. http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/76154-something-keep-eye-dfe-5.html#post1138695

 

I agree with @LosOjos - and was think about blogging on the subject - Excel skillz should be the most highly regarded. SQL experience is desirable.

I don't care if anyone knows about Word, everyone says they do, and then fails miserably. Just make sure they can spell and have good grammar, anyone worth their salt at Excel will be a good all rounder.

 

I would ask for someone with an aptitude for playing around with numbers, spreadsheets and data, someone that wants to put data to good use. Imagine the type of person you want and what they like to do rather than a set of skills, so the applicant can identify if they are that type of person. Then list desirable and essential skills, and i think you'd get away with a much lower set of skills. I think describing a person is better particularly for a DM role as they are always so varied. Saying you want someone who understands SQL + BI etc. is good, but if you get someone techy who enjoys that sort of thing, they'll learn it rapidly. It sounds like you may well want SQL and some other stuff, but if that is what you need, experience of the MIS won't matter much.

 

If you did implement the above, you will probably end up with way more applicants, and the onus is on your to filter them, but that's better than not getting enough or missing out on someone good who wouldn't have otherwise applied.

 

To get some high calibre candidates, it's worth talking to ESP - Education Support Professionals @Will_Townsend knows a lot of good DMs - he placed me out here many moons ago.

[CAM]

Hi. Experienced data manager here and I actually noticed the job advert and considered it, but I didn't apply due to not being sure if you were industry-side or school-side. I'm also rather happy where I am since I too was poached.

 

But yes, school management teams seem to prefer spreadsheets and particular database packages specific to schools (SIMS is the largest in the sector and denies direct SQL access) so if you are dead set on a school data manager you might want to be ready to give them some refresher SQL training which is the cost of someone who knows the DfE Minefields (and make it desired instead of essential). Of course, you may get someone who knows SQL and that would be a great bonus! This is actually one of my bug bears about the role, keeping SQL skills up is hard as the only thing I have at the moment to toy with SQL is the obscure MSQUERY application in Office that screams Windows 3.11 era.

[JDiaz]

Is ARK the place down in Holborn ? Where @bringmoredata works..? That Tableau tool looks cool. http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/76154-something-keep-eye-dfe-5.html#post1138695

 

Yes, it is. @bringmoredata and I work in the same team at ARK Schools, which is a charity running schools in England. We currently have 27 schools and are growing every year. We care A LOT about data. We are not just another academy sponsor. We do things differently to improve the life chances of our students.

 

The problem we have is that, for this role, we need someone who knows SIMS because we took onboard two schools with SIMS last summer (all the others using CMIS) and we lack SIMS expertise at the central team to be able to support them in an intelligent manner. This is the core skill we are looking for and everything else is secondary. For this particular role, we originally thought that it would be helpful to hire someone who already knew SIMS as it would be odd to hire someone who knows less than the schools they would be supporting. SQL, CMIS and everything else is secondary, what we look for is someone techy and with the intellectual curiosity to pick up those things quickly. We are an expanding team with very big plans, and we want to find the closest fit.

 

To get some high calibre candidates, it's worth talking to ESP - Education Support Professionals @Will_Townsend knows a lot of good DMs - he placed me out here many moons ago.

 

I have talked to agencies, including ESP, and asked for outstanding candidates, and I have not been satisfied with the responses. If there is any agency reading this, please feel free to be in touch!!

 

Hi. Experienced data manager here and I actually noticed the job advert and considered it, but I didn't apply due to not being sure if you were industry-side or school-side. I'm also rather happy where I am since I too was poached.

 

You are still in time , closes tomorrow morning.

[featured_spectre]

You are asking for a lot of the person you want in the role, and offering less than what said person would be worth.

 

Qualifications

 Qualified to A-Level standard or equivalent - Not much of an issue here, reasonable ask

 A degree from a technical background is preferable - What sort of technical background? Applied Physics is technical, as is Engineering. You leave this open to interpretation way too much.

 Appropriate and relevant professional qualification - OK, so what exactly? ITIL? FITS? Prince2? BCS?

 Right to work in the UK. - Fair enough

Experience

 Experience working with SIMS.net. - Fair enough, though tandemed with CMIS will be difficult to find

 SQL Server 2005 / 2008 / 2012 experience - Fair enough, but not many MIS systems allow you to go and fiddle with the SQL

 The role of data in an education context - Fair enough

 Some experience in CMIS Facility - Tandemed with the SIMS you will have a tough time!

 Experience in a client facing role. - Fair enouhg.

[vikpaw]

I think 30-35k is pretty decent.

There are a lot of techs in Education with a degree, and are earning far less than that.

 

I fit most of that criteria, but it's too cold in the UK for me

 

Those of you with SIMS, but wanting to keep up SQL practise, it's actually a good place to have a look around. If you try to get your head around SIMS, then your SQL skills will really develop en route.

 

Obviously don't mess with the live system, make a backup and stick it on a test server. Then you can have a play and see what's around, if you have the time and inclination. Particularly when you end up saying to a user, ah, well SIMS can't do that....

 

e.g. here's an old script i knocked together because somebody in the admin office wanted to know how many documents they had linked manually to the student records.

 

use sims
select dm.attachment_name,
dm.last_modification_date,
dm.last_modified_by,
dm.note,
dm.summary,
dm.entity_id,
dm.created_by_id,
per.surname,
per.forename,
stud.latest_adno
from sims.stud_student stud join sims.dm_document_710 dm on dm.entity_id = stud.person_id
join sims.sims_person per on dm.entity_id = per.person_id
where dm.attachment_name IS NOT NULL AND dm.last_modification_date > '2010-09-30 00:00:00' AND dm.created_by_id = '9'

[CAM]

I'm surprised you aren't a consultant yet Vik!

[Marci]

I know plenty (well, at least 5) of people here 'up North' who fulfil all the criteria (& more besides, with many years experience), but... everyone I know with these levels of experience (myself included) are mid30s to mid40s with families / working partners / mortgage, getting paid almost what you're offering to fulfil DM role in a SINGLE school, who adapted into that role many years ago and have no particularly relevant qualifications beyond O-Level/GCSE & ECDL. Add in to the equation [1] it's London, and [2] you'd be asking them to support up to 27 establishments - the money wouldn't be enough. Asking for a Degree and SQL Server experience is too limiting. A knowledge of SQL query language, yes. A knowledge of SQL Server? No - IT Support's dept.

 

If no locally suitable candidates are making themselves apparent, up the cash, or reduce the Experience & wage and just look for SIMS experience imo.

[vikpaw]

I'm surprised you aren't a consultant yet Vik!

They can't afford me - the heating bills would be too much

@JDiaz - get on to LinkedIn, Capita have a group where you could advertise, i think that's allowed.

 

Also, if you ask nicely they might let you advertise on SupportNet too.

 

That's a sure fire way to get the SIMS experience you want which seems like your strongest requirement.

[michael2k6]

The only people I know who fit this criteria are all living in the north on the same salary. I can speak from recent experience having met the team at Ark and say that it would be an amazing opportunity for someone, but I do maintain that for the kind of skilled professional you're looking for, considering the location, you're in the wrong salary range for attracting anyone who isn't currently in London, and that limits you a fair amount.

[tombry]

I thought about it - but for me, the transport costs to London would eat up any raise in pay, and have longer commute/hours.