[POLL] Should Scotland be an independent country?

[pcstru]

You're mixing up a currency union with "using the pound".

Not according to Wikipedia (that bastion of truth and accuracy).

 

Quote :

 

"The pound is the currency of Jersey. Jersey is in currency union with the United Kingdom, and the Jersey pound is not a separate currency[citation needed] but is an issue of banknotes and coins by the States of Jersey denominated in pound sterling, in a similar way to the banknotes issued in Scotland and Northern Ireland (see Banknotes of the pound sterling)."

Edited September 10, 2014 by pcstru

[localzuk]

Ok, slight clarification - I didn't realise Jersey was in a true currency union. The Isle of Man is not in a currency union though, so my point stands with the IOM.

 

One thing to note though - Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man are not independent countries. 2 are owned by the crown and 1 is a crown protectorate (very similar statuses but with some differences). Basically, they are where Scotland would be with "devo max".

Edited September 10, 2014 by localzuk

[witch]

Personally I think Scotland will be fine either way. We've been producing high quality, educated people & political figures (not that snake-oil salesman Salmond of course) for centuries and punching above our weight so, in the long term, Scotland would do ok. It's the short/medium term that is the danger. £100's of millions have already been transferred from Scottish institutions to English counterparts on the back of the last poll. That would leap in the event of of a "Yes" and who knows what damage that could do.

 

Or Scotland could gamble, use the Euro, leave rUK with all the debt and start fresh with a big two fingers south. Might work....!

 

So...you are Scots? But you live in London? Scotland not so much of a paradise then?

Sorry, but all I ever here from the Scots I know is how wonderful Scotland is and how horrible England is - but where do they choose to live and raise their families? Hmm I rest my case

[pcstru]

Sorry, but all I ever here from the Scots I know is how wonderful Scotland is and how horrible England is - but where do they choose to live and raise their families? Hmm I rest my case

I don't like Scotland as a place to live, primarily I don't like the Weather and I don't like Midges. I like the weather in England (the part where I live now) and I don't get eaten alive by Midges.

 

Happy?

 

Of course, many English people live in Scotland - that's why I was there because my Parents moved there. English people living in Scotland will also get to vote on Independence, whereas Scots living abroad will not.

 

I'm surprised no one has proposed deporting Scots back to Scotland should their Country dare to have the temerity to vote to govern their own affairs. Only a matter of time I'm sure.

Edited September 10, 2014 by pcstru

[localzuk]

I don't like Scotland as a place to live, primarily I don't like the Weather and I don't like Midges. I like the weather in England and I don't get eaten alive by Midges.

 

Happy?

 

Of course, many English people live in Scotland - that's why I was there because my Parents moved there. English people living in Scotland will also get to vote on Independence, whereas Scots living abroad will not.

 

I'm surprised no one has proposed deporting Scots back to Scotland should their Country dare to have the temerity to vote to govern their own affairs. Only a matter of time I'm sure.

 

Nah, deporting Scots would be an odd idea. Then Scotland would deport all the English people who like Scotland back here! Do we really want them back?

[midweek]

So...you are Scots? But you live in London? Scotland not so much of a paradise then?

Sorry, but all I ever here from the Scots I know is how wonderful Scotland is and how horrible England is - but where do they choose to live and raise their families? Hmm I rest my case

 

Ha ha! That's a wee bit unfair. Nowhere did I say England is horrible. I actually like it here and don't foresee myself back in Scotland any time soon. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the future of my country of birth albeit without a vote!

 

This referendum has been so vitriolic with no middle ground allowed that I'm actually about the least proud of being Scottish as I've ever been.

[witch]

Ha ha! That's a wee bit unfair. Nowhere did I say England is horrible. I actually like it here and don't foresee myself back in Scotland any time soon. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the future of my country of birth albeit without a vote!

 

This referendum has been so vitriolic with no middle ground allowed that I'm actually about the least proud of being Scottish as I've ever been.

Phew! Glad you took that well - I was just returning to delete it in case I got into an argument!

[ZeroHour]

So...you are Scots? But you live in London? Scotland not so much of a paradise then?

Sorry, but all I ever here from the Scots I know is how wonderful Scotland is and how horrible England is - but where do they choose to live and raise their families? Hmm I rest my case

 

Wow!!!

 

EDIT: Just saw your follow up.

Edited September 10, 2014 by ZeroHour

[localzuk]

Ha ha! That's a wee bit unfair. Nowhere did I say England is horrible. I actually like it here and don't foresee myself back in Scotland any time soon. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the future of my country of birth albeit without a vote!

 

This referendum has been so vitriolic with no middle ground allowed that I'm actually about the least proud of being Scottish as I've ever been.

 

Problem is, with a 2 question ballot, there can't be a middle ground!

[featured_spectre]

That's a good thing in this instance. You are either a YES to independence or NO to independence. There really isn't any middle ground in this instance.

[sparkeh]

That's a good thing in this instance. You are either a YES to independence or NO to independence. There really isn't any middle ground in this instance.

Not really a good thing, a better option would have been 1) Keep things the same 2) Full independence 3) Development of devolution.

[CAM]

So...you are Scots? But you live in London? Scotland not so much of a paradise then?

Sorry, but all I ever here from the Scots I know is how wonderful Scotland is and how horrible England is - but where do they choose to live and raise their families? Hmm I rest my case

 

London dominates not just Scotland but the rest of the UK both economically and in terms of population. Anyone would be crazy to disregard it when looking for opportunities, hence the large numbers of Scots south of the wall (same for Welsh, Irish, etc). And all the Scots I have met here in the capital are really nice but are being denied their right to vote about the future of their country because Salmond knows they would vote against a split. I daresay some will find themselves having to move North again just so they can continue to claim their rightful heritage if there is a split.

 

Also if we don't have people free to live, work and settle in and around NI/Wales/England/Scotland/etc we wouldn't be much of a United Kingdom!

Edited September 10, 2014 by CAM

[localzuk]

Paris dominates French decisions. Berlin dominates German decisions. Tokyo dominates Japanese decisions. It is pretty normal for huge capital cities to be the dominant part of a country when they're making decisions...

[CAM]

I know, hence why Scots move south in response to Witch's statement.

[Hefferzzzz]

Paris dominates French decisions. Berlin dominates German decisions. Tokyo dominates Japanese decisions. It is pretty normal for huge capital cities to be the dominant part of a country when they're making decisions...

 

But London is not the capital of the country called Scotland....

[localzuk]

But London is not the capital of the country called Scotland....

 

No, its the capital of the country called the United Kingdom, which Scotland is part of.

 

No doubt at all that Scots will eventually complain about the country being dominated by Edinburgh in future...

[Vasriel]

No, its the capital of the country called the United Kingdom, which Scotland is part of.

 

No doubt at all that Scots will eventually complain about the country being dominated by Edinburgh in future...

 

Yep, if Scotland does get Independence then it will eventually be the Highlanders not liking certain decisions being made by the Lowlanders. Its what Scottish people like to do best, complain

[Hefferzzzz]

No, its the capital of the country called the United Kingdom, which Scotland is part of.

 

No doubt at all that Scots will eventually complain about the country being dominated by Edinburgh in future...

 

 

The United Kingdom isn't a country it is a soverign state made out of the union of four countries - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The correct term is The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. Which is also different from Great Britain.

 

Some may think this pedantic but in terms of this debate is is important to know what we are actually talking about.

[localzuk]

In terms of international law, treaties etc... It doesn't matter which definition you use.

[CAM]

We are recognised as the UK. Your passport is for the UK, your driving licence is for the UK, your economy is the UK. Nearly every aspect of your life is the UK from borders to the beef on your dinner plate. UK.

[pcstru]

Paris dominates French decisions. Berlin dominates German decisions. Tokyo dominates Japanese decisions. It is pretty normal for huge capital cities to be the dominant part of a country when they're making decisions...

 

I think the scale is different. London has a population of over 8 million, over 10% of the UK population and more than the whole population of Scotland. Paris and Berlin are around 2 and 3 million from populations of 65 and 80 million respectively. London dominates UK political and economic life spending more per capita than other cities or counties and skewing things like the housing market beyond simple demographics. I don't think it is just people in Scotland who feel London has a disproportionate influence on UK political life.

 

Perhaps it is London that should vote for independence from the rest of the UK. I'm sure if they did, there would be a lot of support - much of it from outside the capital!

[Hefferzzzz]

In terms of international law, treaties etc... It doesn't matter which definition you use.

 

Yes it does. They are all different in terms of treaties, law etc.

 

This is exactly the type of 'the facts dont matter, we can just wing it' argument that the Yes campaign have been portraying all the while.

[Gatt]

The United Kingdom isn't a country it is a soverign state made out of the union of four countries - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The correct term is The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. Which is also different from Great Britain.

 

Some may think this pedantic but in terms of this debate is is important to know what we are actually talking about.

 

 

This is tripping a lot of people up..

 

Great Britain = the landmass that contains England, Scotland and Wales

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as the name suggests = Great Britain (see above) and Northern Ireland

 

Therefore, a "Yes" vote doesn't break up Great Britain - unless Alex Salmond is going to dig a rather large trench along the border, but it does break up the United Kingdom.. since that was formed by the Act Of Union, and later, Northern Ireland [not sure when this was..]

[localzuk]

Yes it does. They are all different in terms of treaties, law etc.

 

This is exactly the type of 'the facts dont matter, we can just wing it' argument that the Yes campaign have been portraying all the while.

 

OK. Provide me evidence of this difference. I haven't found any.

[Hefferzzzz]

OK. Provide me evidence of this difference. I haven't found any.

 

Really?? I am sure you have access to Google.

 

Law - Law of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I honestly do not have time to trawl trough the EU website to find treaty details but the 'UK' and 'Great Britain & Northern Ireland' are treated as different. Great Britain is not in the EU, The UK is.