Am I being irrational and old fashioned here?

[Oaktech]

A teacher here basically wants us to stop using MS Office and start using google docs and drive for everything, including document storage. His reasoning is that google docs is available free, available outside school for anyone with an internet connection to use. Much easier for collaborative learning and It will be cheaper for us to operate as we would need less network storage, no MS license, less powerful PCs.

 

The issue is that basically, I don't like cloud services, I don't feel sufficiently in control of them, I don't like having sensitive documents in the cloud, especially when there are big data breaches being reported almost every day, I don't like having to rely on an internet connection to do everything (even though our internet has been excellent recently). It adds a level of complexity that I'm pretty convinced a lot of our users won't take to. Ultimately I don't feel comfortable using them but his evangelising about it is making me feel like a luddite.

 

We are a pretty old school setup and I like it, I feel in control of it. We have fought tooth and nail to bring everything in house, under our complete control and out of the hands of unreliable, faceless suppliers (website, mail, filtering, broadband provision, finance package,) and it's not somewhere I want to revisit.

 

Help.

[featured_spectre]

Nope, you are right. I see the point from the data protection side. Ask the teacher to put in writing the justification that he feels so the school should go ahead, and what safeguarding measures he would implement to stop the data being taken by A. Random. And what mechanisms he would have for backup of the file should it become corrupt etc.

[synaesthesia]

Yes you are being old fashioned, no you're not being irrational. Google Cloud is a great accompaniment to Office at best, I don't think many people in the industry would actually recommend using it on it's own. Maybe worth meeting in the middle - seeing if you can get file defaults to save to open format so they'll open in both, getting staff to know about Google Docs for home use etc. Maybe using Drive for backup but make sure they know to save on the network primarily.

[simpsonj]

Point him in the direction of Office 365 instead? You can keep Office, and it's available at home for staff and students for free...

[elsiegee40]

We are using the two side by side. Gmail, Google Calendars and Google Drive are very useful, but there is still a place for Office in my school... but no Outlook (yippee!) Edited January 30, 2014 by elsiegee40

[RageSto]

Google Docs has come a long way, but it still pales in comparison to what a fully featured Office suite can do. We're in the process of migrating to Google Apps for Education for our email and Google Drive, but planning on keeping Office alongside it.

[Dave_O]

If we're being honest. It's not about you, it's about the needs of the school. If Google + addresses their needs then I'm afraid you're going to have to suck it up and make the change. As stated above there's no reason why you can't keep secure data in house and teaching and learning materials out in the "cloud". Have a look at the Danish company "Wizkids" who do a great implementation of Google Apps for education which integrates with SIMS or any other MIS system

[Chris_Cook]

I think you are right. You are storing a significant proportion of the schools data. Who is responsible for the backup? What happens when you need to migrate from one cloud provider to another? Who's going to move all the documents? We found this when we moved VLE and email providers. So much stuff couldn't be moved.

[elsiegee40]

What Google documents is giving us is the ability for staff to take electronic documents home without the need for encrypting laptops and memory sticks or worry about said sticks being lost and not backed up. It is giving staff 24/7 access to documents on any type of device. It is giving us document sharing and collaboration. In a school our size affordable and remote access cannot go together; we simply don't have the funds for it.

 

The world is moving towards cloud working. What your school, and its SLT, has to do is to work out the boundaries and policies to allow your staff to work... and this is heading for people using their own devices and wanting access to stuff. I cannot see everything being in the cloud and I cannot see Office disappearing from our network any time soon, but the freedom of Google Docs or Office 365 is changing working practices and is not going away.

[3s-gtech]

Or, if you're using HAP+ or similar, you're giving them 'cloud' access that's under your control. Best of both worlds IMO.

[fairm010]

Or, if you're using HAP+ or similar, you're giving them 'cloud' access that's under your control. Best of both worlds IMO.

 

That was my exact reasoning when I was approached with this issue. I host the data but it gives them a 'Cloud' experience.

[caffrey]

It's handy too if you use tablets, kids / staff can save stuff to their drive that they can pick up on a pc and vice versa (even if google docs is carp on the iPad....) And it's nice that they can all get free storage space (would be nice to set their home drives to google drive) You're not saving that much on licencing moving over and it does add a level of complexity for admin that you wouldn't expect (Syncing, groups creating accounts for new staff etc) but on the whole it was a good move, once you get it up and running it's pretty much fit and forget. Edited January 30, 2014 by caffrey

[robjduk]

Go with google. I am running both 2013 and google docs in my school with google starting to take a strong foothold. It will be a couple of years before we switch over I think but it is the way to go.

365 for schools is fine but find the free level you get as a school was a pain in the arse for the end user (nothing like outlook.com) and google just worked. Get with it man

[MatthewL]

Setup a VPN or terminal service box staff can use from home, best of both your in control and they can access what they need.

[free780]

I would stick with in house solution. Google docs can go down. I've had users come to me because a cloud service is down and expect me to do something. You also lose control of sensitive data.

[IWDave]

I'm all for keeping everything in house; we have our own cloud services that staff can use, we are also soon rolling out RDWeb for both pupils and staff. My main concern is data-protection; I like to know were my data is, as I am sure I will get into serious trouble if it turns out our data (pupil data) leaves the UK from a cloud based service provider. Granted we had the budget to make sure that we had new infrastructure and servers as well as a sizable broadband provision, and it works well for us. Unless I am instructed by SLT (which I am part of) to go cloud based (external), then I'll keep everything close by. I think I would feel that my Job, certainly the role that I take would change dramatically and become less skilled. But they are my own thoughts and theory.

[caffrey]

Security & Privacy ? Google Apps for Education

[cpjitservices]

What about finding some external co-location and building your own cloud using something like ... ownCloud.org | Your Cloud, Your Data, Your Way!

 

That way you control the data but dont have to worry about the hardware and its offsite too in case of any catastrophic failure. You can get clients for owncloud for Android too. I believe also some of the plugins work with Google Apps and you can use basic plugins that let you edit documents on-line.

 

Personally I'd use it for a dats tore only. I suppose really this defeats the point.

[sted]

if you have the internet connection up to the job dosent server 2012/r2 have cloud hosting stuff built in so you can have a cloud but the data is still in your building under your control

[maark]

Not sure why data protection is an issue - Google is registered with the US-EU Safe Harbour agreement.

Not trying to be a saleperson for google but google apps for education is the same product as google apps for business used by 5 million companies and you get it for free. The security and backup are going to be more robust than you can do in house and you don't have to worry about disaster recovery.

We still run Office and home folders alongside google apps but the email, 30GB of cloud storage and collaboration tools are really useful.

I think keeping things in house for the sake of it is old fashioned and you could free up money for other things.

[rich_tech]

With the increase in Chromebook usages thanks to their "cheap laptop" ethos it is something to consider google docs and it is improving all the time and working hard to become a viable candidate to replace a lot of expensively licensed MS technologies. (Being Free comparable to Office even as part of EES)

 

Would I be worried about the stuff hosted on it ? yes, if its physically kept outside of the network it is an issue, sensitive data is a big issue in there. Which is why staff have access to a portal created by the LEA where they can access all their hosted files remotely, we use MS Office on the PCs but offer up in addition Google Docs (though here we dont have staff using that much outside of IT that I have personally noticed, we are waiting on our LEA to sort out Office365 in the coming year)

 

Pupils are using it more regularly though on our site, they can work at home without worrying about an office suite on their computers and its all saved online with no need for USB sticks, I have recently spoken with a couple about printing from Chromebooks, it is becoming more widespread and I do see how good google docs can be, from being in a classroom where the pupils are all collaborating on projects working together making a "Sheet" or a "Slide" all on their seperate machines and working together.

[pcstru]

The security and backup are going to be more robust than you can do in house and you don't have to worry about disaster recovery.

Yes you do have to worry!

 

In fact backup isn't as good as we do in house and we will have to buy in a solution to give us the some of the same protection. I have a lot of sympathy with the OP. These changes are often being driven by evangelists without proper consideration as to the cost, impact and risk of the changes. Problems lurk along the path like icebergs - but change isn't well planned, so support staff end up manning the bucket chains. I keep hearing our head of ICT claiming that Google will save us money, but so far I can see £100K investment with no actual savings in sight. That might not be true for everyone, but the 'sell' reminds me of VDI sales people who would ring up and promise me I could save more money than we actually spend! And in the end, something like Google Apps should be done because it meets a requirement and enables the delivery of a high quality curriculum, not because it is a cheap option.

Edited January 31, 2014 by pcstru

[Oaktech]

Thanks for your input... To answer a few questions...

 

We already use HAP really quite extensively and the teacher in question knows it, but is still insistent on Google. I've already told them that as long as we use MS operating systems we don't pay any more for our use of Office - to which he has responded OK, lets just use chrome boxes!

 

My problem with using chrome boxes is that we make a massive deal about providing an education using industry standard equipment... As far as I know, Chrome and google are not industry standard yet.

 

We don't block it at the moment and anyone is free to use it on or off site, however, we have literally a handful of people who we know use it.

 

I'm aware that Google security is some of the best around, but seeing as we backed away from progresso due to senior management concerns over data security, they are pretty skittish about it. I am more concerned about kids finding out each others passwords and deleting one another's work. They do that enough with local files and at least we can just recover work from backups in minutes from them. I don't know how drive and docs deal with recovery?

 

I seriously don't think that Google docs would serves us any better than our current solution, and having done a storage audit not long ago, we are not using vast amounts of storage for documents, the vast majority of our storage is given over to electronic text books and multimedia resources.

 

I've worked really hard to get agreement from senior management for a server infrastructure refresh that isn't coming cheap, it allows us to move away from RM and XP. I am quite concerned that if this teacher gets the ear of management it could undermine a lot of this without meaning to.

[IWDave]

I'm sure I read somewhere that schools had to make sure their data didn't leave UK boarders. (odd how that works in this global internet connection, they might just be referring to storage rather than transmission (I hope)), but not sure where I heard or read that.

[robjduk]

Its the EU and yes you are right, I wouldn't go keeping any confidential information on the Google drive for this reason. I hear things are in the works at cloud companies to allow you to choose where your data is held but until then you will want to keep it safe.