Parents to confront School governors over iPads

[GREED]

Referring to games might not be that daft though. If it is their iPad, surely they can put whatever games they like on it.

 

And with schools using games in the classroom being all the rage... apparently... why not!

[Simcfc73]

When I were a lad, we had a pen and some paper if you were lucky! Any you try and tell the young people of today that.. and they won' believe you.

 

Pen and paper... luxury... we had to cut of a finger and write in blood.

[Gibson335]

My old school was at the forefront of the MS 'Anytime Anywhere Learning' scheme, with laptops (partly paid for by parents) bought in for one year group as a trial...it was an unmitigated disaster, with all kids of parental/school disputes, queues on a Monday morning to have fixed what they broke over the weekend, etc, etc. Few would dispute 1:1 learning as an ideal, but we don't live in an ideal world.

 

As for the 'pad' approach. Most of the whitepaper reports I've seen included all the wrong questions. Basically, they were pushing the notion that they had introduced pads, there was a positive response, ergo pads were the way forward. What they actually did was introduce IT into classrooms that previously had no IT, therefore the positive reaction was almost inevitable. What I've never seen is a review that introduced laptops or tablets where none existed, took them away, replaced them with pads, and then asked for opinions.

[elsiegee40]

We looked at this at my governor school along with BYOD... it raised more questions than it answered.

 

Exactly how would it improve the progress of the students and how would that be assured?

What does the school do about the less affluent children?

Does the school have secure storage for devices required for teaching in school so the devices are safe and secure during PE and at break times for example?

What happens when said device is out of batteries because student forgot to charge it or the battery is incapable of lasting until the end of the school day?

Who has to insure the item against theft, damage or loss?

 

We have a solicitor on our Governing Body, he told us that if the school requires students (or staff for that matter) to bring the devices in then the school cannot abdicate responsibility for their insurance.

 

There are a couple of BETT seminars that I am keen to attend: Implementing BYOD - a warts & all expose (Saturday 12.30pm)

and BYOD – What you wish you had known (Friday 12.45pm)

Edited January 16, 2014 by elsiegee40

[AMLinington]

I'm sick of iPads. £400 web browser.

 

Me too....

 

The main problem with the iPad and other devices of its ilk is that it is designed as a personal entertainment device. The OS doesn't support rigorous security lockdowns, it doesn't support integration into a domain environment and it doesn't play nice with proxies - 3 things that make them poorly suited as business or educational tools. The iPad in particular is unlikely to be of extensive educational use without additional costly applications. There are many wonderful applications available in the store for learning languages, experimental analysis, books and literature, but they all COST MONEY for the good features - will parents be expected to fork out for the applications too?

 

Is it compulsory? Surely not?

 

If my child brought home a form for a school supplied iPad at £10 a month over 3 years it'd go straight into the bin. Too many shortcuts are taken in education already and we're fast churning out a generation of people who have very few formal communication skills - most can't write a letter or tell the difference between the use of 'Yours Sincerely' and 'Yours Faithfully'. If the school want children to use expensive tech then they need to find the budget for it, not expect already hard pressed parents to fund their castle in the sky...

 

When I did my PGCE I wrote one of my masters level essays on the topic of IT in education and my overwhelming feeling as a result of the work I did was that until a unequivocal benefit can be identified in using IT over other teaching methods, with empirical data to back it up, then we're simply using it for the sake of it. It's like NASA spending a fortune developing a 'Space pen' that works in 0 gravity when a pencil would do the same job.

Edited January 16, 2014 by AMLinington

[Oaktech]

I put my foot down about this. We talked about this and had a presentation, but I said that I would not be responsible for them without training and that it would only be workable with a 10k investment in our wireless infrastructure. they said this wasn't going to happen - so it didn't happen.

[lmgtfy]

iPad 2's you having a laugh! I have had mine for two years now and since the upgrade to iOS7 it has slowed down so much and constantly crashes I hardly use it anymore. I think its Apple's secret way of making you think you need a new one, No thanks I'll wait for the new Nexus 10.

[Garacesh]

This is utterly ridiculous.

 

Firstly, £10 per month towards a device that, by the sounds of it, will be mandatory. Even if it's not mandatory, it might as well be, because we know how nasty children can be, and anybody that doesn't contribute towards an iPad for their child.. Well, that child's going to have a pretty rough time. I know from experience, not having much money when I was growing up, I never had the latest phone, or the new trainers, or the cool clothes, and apparently that made me a sub-par human being. S'how it works, right? By all means, ask for a voluntary donation, I'd consider that fair, but if the school wants to give each child their own device, the school should be able to pay for it themselves. This, of course, doesn't even account for parents that have more than one child, which is more-and-more common these days.

 

Second, why iPads? Granted, I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I do try to refrain from pointless bashing where appropriate. If the school could offer an in-depth analysis of multiple possible devices (iPad, Surface, those ASUS Tablet/Notebook combo things, $genericAndoidTablet) and give factual evidence on why the settled for the iPad's, then I'll be okay with that. But I have a sinking feeling it's because 'ooh, shiny'. I think that laptops would be a much better purchase. Laptops are much more durable and infinitely better equipped for the actual creation of data. Tablets are mainly consumption devices, and if the whole class need to disseminate information, it can be handed out as worksheets or displayed on the whiteboard. Laptops are also to a degree repairable and upgradable.

 

Third, device safety. One device per student, but the parent 'contributes' to the cost? This strikes me that the School still owns the device. What about after 3 years? Does the student or parent own the device then? Who is liable for the device? What if the device is stolen outside of school? Or on the journey to-or-from school, a setting where the student would be expected to be in possession of the device? If the device is mandatory, surely the liability falls onto the school? Maybe the students will be prohibited from taking them home with them, in which case, where will they be stored overnight? What happens if one student steals or damages another students iPad? What if it's simply damaged accidentally, who foots the bill for a replacement? And that's not even getting started on e-safety/AV.

 

Fourth, educational benefits. I understand textbooks can probably be downloaded on tablets via e-book apps, but honestly - and this is purely my personal opinion - I cannot see a single instance where a tablet would contribute further to education than any other device. What about monitoring/controlling the devices? There's no educational benefit if it gets clogged up with games or movies. What about the inevitable occurrences where students will forget their tablet (or instances of aforementioned theft/damage). Will lessons be tailored towards tablet use?

 

All-in-all, if this were my hypothetical child's school, I'd be completely against it.

[Pyroman]

You don't choose technology based on its price for schemes like this. You base it on functionality, availability and suitability. The iPad 2 is old tech, and therefore means it won't run 'new' apps designed for the higher resolution screens of newer models etc... Plus, the scheme they are using may not offer that model.

 

Next, there's spec. The 16GB iPad Air comes in at £320 base price. 16GB is pretty much useless, space wise - some apps are several gigabytes! So, you want at least 32GB, and that is another £150, base price.

 

Also, take into account extended warranty and insurance.

 

Rubbish! We've got iPad2's and i've yet to find an app that won't run on them

[zag]

Also the last generation ipad minis can be had for 200 quid at the moment.

 

Absolute Bargain!

[localzuk]

Rubbish! We've got iPad2's and i've yet to find an app that won't run on them

 

Yet.

 

Key word there.

 

Some of the things @Garacesh says are why I'm still a fan of going Windows 8.1 devices. Yes, Win 8.1 is annoying but it can still have Impero installed. It can be well managed using systems that are tried and tested and work.

[Pyroman]

Yet.

 

Key word there.

 

Some of the things @Garacesh says are why I'm still a fan of going Windows 8.1 devices. Yes, Win 8.1 is annoying but it can still have Impero installed. It can be well managed using systems that are tried and tested and work.

 

What have you found that won't run on them? The higher resolution/more RAM etc is just rubbish, for a web surfing device it doesn't need that sort've hardware it's just marketing rubbish. Bigger numbers mean bigger profits because idiots buy the latest devices.

[AMLinington]

This is utterly ridiculous.

 

Firstly, £10 per month towards a device that, by the sounds of it, will be mandatory. Even if it's not mandatory, it might as well be, because we know how nasty children can be, and anybody that doesn't contribute towards an iPad for their child.. Well, that child's going to have a pretty rough time. I know from experience, not having much money when I was growing up, I never had the latest phone, or the new trainers, or the cool clothes, and apparently that made me a sub-par human being. S'how it works, right? By all means, ask for a voluntary donation, I'd consider that fair, but if the school wants to give each child their own device, the school should be able to pay for it themselves. This, of course, doesn't even account for parents that have more than one child, which is more-and-more common these days.

 

Second, why iPads? Granted, I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I do try to refrain from pointless bashing where appropriate. If the school could offer an in-depth analysis of multiple possible devices (iPad, Surface, those ASUS Tablet/Notebook combo things, $genericAndoidTablet) and give factual evidence on why the settled for the iPad's, then I'll be okay with that. But I have a sinking feeling it's because 'ooh, shiny'. I think that laptops would be a much better purchase. Laptops are much more durable and infinitely better equipped for the actual creation of data. Tablets are mainly consumption devices, and if the whole class need to disseminate information, it can be handed out as worksheets or displayed on the whiteboard. Laptops are also to a degree repairable and upgradable.

 

Third, device safety. One device per student, but the parent 'contributes' to the cost? This strikes me that the School still owns the device. What about after 3 years? Does the student or parent own the device then? Who is liable for the device? What if the device is stolen outside of school? Or on the journey to-or-from school, a setting where the student would be expected to be in possession of the device? If the device is mandatory, surely the liability falls onto the school? Maybe the students will be prohibited from taking them home with them, in which case, where will they be stored overnight? What happens if one student steals or damages another students iPad? What if it's simply damaged accidentally, who foots the bill for a replacement? And that's not even getting started on e-safety/AV.

 

Fourth, educational benefits. I understand textbooks can probably be downloaded on tablets via e-book apps, but honestly - and this is purely my personal opinion - I cannot see a single instance where a tablet would contribute further to education than any other device. What about monitoring/controlling the devices? There's no educational benefit if it gets clogged up with games or movies. What about the inevitable occurrences where students will forget their tablet (or instances of aforementioned theft/damage). Will lessons be tailored towards tablet use?

 

All-in-all, if this were my hypothetical child's school, I'd be completely against it.

 

This. With bells on. The whole scheme is poorly thought out and rationalised and I think @Garacesh is right in that the choice of device isn't based at all on any usability or feature comparison (in which case an Android or Windows Surface tablet might come out on top - particularly Windows Surface where domain integration is concerned) but purely on 'oooh shiny' and those magic catchphrases and photos they can put in the prospectus to dupe people into believing they are progressive and 'cutting edge'.

 

I was the same as @Garacesh at school - we didn't have a lot of money and I never had the fashionable stationary brands or the latest shoe fad (Kickers for example) and I vividly remember spending my life on the outside because I just wasn't cool enough and whilst I wouldn't want my child to suffer the same fate, I can't afford to indulge these whims. The school should be funding this 100%.

Edited January 16, 2014 by AMLinington

[localzuk]

What have you found that won't run on them? The higher resolution/more RAM etc is just rubbish, for a web surfing device it doesn't need that sort've hardware it's just marketing rubbish. Bigger numbers mean bigger profits because idiots buy the latest devices.

 

I personally haven't. But that's neither here nor there! The iPad One can't run iOS 6 or 7, so obviously can't run apps for those OS's. Its only a matter of time before the iPad 2 won't support iOS 8 or whatever.

 

Buying an iPad 2 now would be a terrible investment for a scheme set to last 3 years.

[Earthling]

Me too....

 

The main problem with the iPad and other devices of its ilk is that it is designed as a personal entertainment device. The OS doesn't support rigorous security lockdowns, it doesn't support integration into a domain environment and it doesn't play nice with proxies - 3 things that make them poorly suited as business or educational tools. The iPad in particular is unlikely to be of extensive educational use without additional costly applications. There are many wonderful applications available in the store for learning languages, experimental analysis, books and literature, but they all COST MONEY for the good features - will parents be expected to fork out for the applications too?

 

Is it compulsory? Surely not?

 

If my child brought home a form for a school supplied iPad at £10 a month over 3 years it'd go straight into the bin. Too many shortcuts are taken in education already and we're fast churning out a generation of people who have very few formal communication skills - most can't write a letter or tell the difference between the use of 'Yours Sincerely' and 'Yours Faithfully'. If the school want children to use expensive tech then they need to find the budget for it, not expect already hard pressed parents to fund their castle in the sky...

 

When I did my PGCE I wrote one of my masters level essays on the topic of IT in education and my overwhelming feeling as a result of the work I did was that until a unequivocal benefit can be identified in using IT over other teaching methods, with empirical data to back it up, then we're simply using it for the sake of it. It's like NASA spending a fortune developing a 'Space pen' that works in 0 gravity when a pencil would do the same job.

 

^^^ What she said......with knobs on.

 

Sick of hearing about iPads. Sick of hearing 'I'll be able to teach better if I had '.

[abillybob]

Ha try telling my line manager this we've got loads of ipad 2's and he keeps buying them even though they will be obsolete in a year, no one listens! :/

Why would it be the iPad 2 now, with that being several year old technology?

[Earthling]

This is utterly ridiculous.

 

 

Second, why iPads? Granted, I'm not a huge Apple fan, but I do try to refrain from pointless bashing where appropriate. If the school could offer an in-depth analysis of multiple possible devices (iPad, Surface, those ASUS Tablet/Notebook combo things, $genericAndoidTablet) and give factual evidence on why the settled for the iPad's, then I'll be okay with that. But I have a sinking feeling it's because 'ooh, shiny'.

 

I was tasked with evaluating tablets and their domain integration, home folder access, internet access etc, for one of my PMI's last year. I bought an iPad, a Nexus 7 and I wanted a Surface Pro to complete the evaluation. My leaning was towards the Surface or an alternative 8 or 8.1 tablet, for the domain integration, lockdown etc. Before the Surface Pro was released, before I'd even completed a proper classroom evaluation, I was told to order 16 iPads, a Macbook and a cabinet to keep them all in.

 

Obviously, the evaluation was supposed to be 'Oh, Apple make them, we'll have those then.'

 

Silly me.

[abillybob]

This about sums it up just going to slip this in here

[synaesthesia]

iPad this, iPad that. They are not the solution to education's problems. They're not even an answer to many questions, in too many cases they are answers to questions people at the school have yet to ask.

It doesn't make it all bad. For instance, I think having a couple of class sets for primary schools can be an awesome additional asset to the learning and development of children. Likewise, they can be invaluable teaching tools in the right hands. I don't agree with 1:1 provision of any hardware full stop, regardless of who's paying for it, for various reasons. They are tools, they should not be seen as essential by anyone.

Separately though, I can imagine the high apparent cost would cover the device & the relevant insurance whilst they are still a school asset.

[AMLinington]

iPad this, iPad that. They are not the solution to education's problems. They're not even an answer to many questions, in too many cases they are answers to questions people at the school have yet to ask.

It doesn't make it all bad. For instance, I think having a couple of class sets for primary schools can be an awesome additional asset to the learning and development of children. Likewise, they can be invaluable teaching tools in the right hands. I don't agree with 1:1 provision of any hardware full stop, regardless of who's paying for it, for various reasons. They are tools, they should not be seen as essential by anyone.

Separately though, I can imagine the high apparent cost would cover the device & the relevant insurance whilst they are still a school asset.

 

As someone who will eventually have children and will be hard pressed financially, if I found out that this £10 a month I'm paying per child, per device DIDN'T result in my child getting to keep said device, I'd be chucking the letter in the bin and buying something more sensible with the money. Like Lottery tickets or shares in Minidiscs...

[synaesthesia]

Exactly - I was under the impression that after they left they'd keep them. What good they'd be 4/5 years down the line I have no idea. As said, I think class sets are a better idea to supplement L&D. Issues like bullying, theft etc are easily taken care of then because they are not perceived as personal devices, school is more likely to keep a close eye on them, easier to manage. Frankly, as someone in the same boat as yourself I'd rather concentrate on making sure my kids, in their ever-growing state were kept in shoes and reasonable clothes first. That's expensive enough!

[Millgate]

I couldn't believe this either but you have to be careful as there as a lot of schemes out there and not all of them all good value.

 

 

We offer a BYOD solution like this where parents can pay us monthly for a tablet for the kids to use in school. With ours though:

 

It's not just iPads, it can be any tablet that the school choose

 

The payment terms can be whatever the parents want. EG 1,2 or 3 years

 

The child owns the tablet at the end of the term

 

0% interest

 

In our prices, we includes a rugged case, 3 years warranty and 3 years insurance which covers accidental damage

 

The repairs are all done by ourselves in our own repair centre.

 

We offer training days for staff FOC

 

We offer the school cashback etc

 

 

It's a very good solution and it seems to be the way that a lot of schools are going.

 

We're showing this on our Bett stand (F124) with a demo of the portal etc.

 

Let me know if you have any questions or you'd like a demo or quote

 

Luke

[Ephelyon]

Without commenting personally either way, let me play Devil's Advocate here.

 

The "Why Apple?" question: it's not Apple - it's iOS. There's far more malware out there for Android, for a start. Plus, free MDMs like Meraki are actually useful for iDevices because of the amount of configuration/management options you get... far fewer for Android or similar. Add in the iOS Configuration Utility - if you can work out how to use it! - and you're onto a winner. Considering how much the more decent non-iOS biased MDMs out there cost, I've not run the figures myself but if you add up the difference in price between say at least an iPad 3 and a decent Android tablet, per device, versus the per-device licensing costs for the MDM to manage Android properly... I don't know, it could be interesting.

 

Also, a local school here introduced this scheme in Year 7 last year and has produced a very comprehensive document with 42 FAQs that would seem to cover the issue in great detail - whether or not you agree with all of that school's answers, I think it's still an interesting read. I certainly wouldn't say they hadn't put much thought into it. Here it is:

 

http://www.upton-by-chester.cheshire.sch.uk/Websites/upton/files/Content/3605391/FAQ_about_iPads_at_Upton.pdf

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ephelyon

[Marshall_IT]

From what I know of the scheme I'll clear up some details for you...

 

There is a suggested donation of £10 per child with optional discounts for multiple children, it has been stated hat no child will be left out for financial reasons.

 

A deposit of £40 is asked for up front. At the end of the 3 years the parents have the option to buy the iPad at current market value which is estimated to be £40.

 

The money covers an ipad2 case, apps and 3 years warranty and insurance.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Marshall_IT

[synaesthesia]

I can certainly see school's attempts at becoming wholly electronic in this way (1:1 devices) being as much of a detriment to modern society and education as the lack of discipline we've had over the last several years.