RabbieBurns Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Sony reveals the first official details of the PlayStation 4 | Ars Technica Not much of a gamer, only ever play pro evo.
featured_spectre Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Masses of people have glossed over the lack of backwards compatibility. They have shut out all forms of backwards compatibility unless you re-buy the game specifically on the PS4.
Arthur Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) I wonder when we will get to have a look at the actual console? Sony just took the wrappers off the PlayStation 4 at a blowout event — but something was missing. Bizarrely, the company elected not to show any glimpse of the console hardware itself, instead focusing on internal details and a show-reel of upcoming games. We did get to see the new controller and the depth camera that it works with, but as for what you'll actually place under your TV come holiday 2013? We're none the wiser. (Source) It's good to see that the PS4 is now on par with the PC in terms of graphics. The screenshots below are from the new Killzone game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3_QoV6Mgiw&hd=1 http://i.imgur.com/BHOE3e0.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1JC6kop.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1smdfGM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/JnJ7Xyu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/U6vA7GN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/z3zhbsb.jpg Edited February 21, 2013 by Arthur
Arthur Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) They have shut out all forms of backwards compatibility unless you re-buy the game specifically on the PS4. We will have to wait a bit longer for that... Previously, we'd heard that Gaikai would just be used to deliver legacy PlayStation 3 titles on the new platform, but that's not the case quite yet. Instead, it sounds like Gaikai will maintain its original business model of allowing you to try what amounts to a demo of a game — any game — for free before you purchase a disc or new play-as-you-download title. Perry suggests that you'll be able to "instantly experience" any title you see in the PlayStation Store. What's more, Sony says you'll be able to stream PlayStation 4 games to a PlayStation Vita handheld with new Remote Play functionality, using the PlayStation 4 like a server. Nvidia's Project Shield is trying a similar tactic. Perry also says the service is now partnered with Facebook and Ustream, and will allow you to spectate any friend playing a game in real time, and you'll be able to post comments that players can see... a popular feature of Gaikai's former rival OnLive. Now, though, you'll be able to choose when you want to be spectated, pressing the Share button on the controller to broadcast your gameplay live. You'll even take virtually take over a friend's controller if they have to run out the door, says Perry. And that's not all Gaikai is bringing to the PlayStation ecosystem, Perry tells the crowd: The Gaikai founder said that he expects the streaming technology to be able to deliver legacy titles from previous PlayStation platforms (including PS1, PS2, and PS3) to any device, anywhere, in the future. Unfortunately, that future is not now: PlayStation 3 titles won't be natively playable on the PlayStation 4, and it sounds like a streaming solution for that backwards compatibility is also some ways out. (Source) I guess Sony's Gaikai servers aren't yet capable of emulating PS3 games? Technical Difficulties Since PS3 games are written for Sony’s Cell microprocessor architecture, the games will have to be emulated by modern day CPU’s in order to run on servers and streamed to PS4′s. This isn't a trivial task and some doubt it can even be done with today’s processors. If anyone is able to reverse engineer PS3 games to run on PC chips it would be Sony, but it’s definitely not a given. Another theory on how to get PS3 games streamed to PS4′s without complicated emulation involves making servers out of PS3′s. While this process technically should work, it could be very expensive as it would require a Cell chip for every instance of a user playing a PS3 game. Cell servers have been created before to host online games, but each chip acted as a host to 32 clients which is obviously more cost effective. Another alternative would be to use PC versions of 3rd party games that already exist and only emulate PS3/console exclusive games. This could create less risk of introducing new bugs with emulation but still doesn't actually solve the emulation problem. Whatever way Sony has decided to address this problem, it would be a huge advantage going into the next-generation if they have it figured out. (Source) Edited February 21, 2013 by Arthur
localzuk Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Watched all 2 hours of that waffly announcement event last night. So many buzzwords and so much drivel. As good as the graphics look in the promo videos, I have the following issues: 1. Focus on gameplay, not graphics. 2. Backseat gaming mode - being able to call in friends, or have people tell you that you're doing it wrong. In a community where people who livestream games consistently tell people to stop backseat gaming, that seems like an odd feature. 3. Security and privacy. Sony doesn't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to protecting their customer's data, yet they're sticking a 3d camera in the system, and then allowing people to watch others play. It just sounds remarkably like a giant bullseye so they need to ensure they get the security right. 4. Square Enix - what was the point of them being there, re-showing a promo from E3 last year? 5. Blizzard - Just what? Why? Diablo 3? Why!? 6. Mini touchscreen on controller - what use is this going to be. If you are holding the controller right, it will be nearly out of reach for everyone, so you'd have to hold the controller somewhat awkwardly to use it. Maybe its just for thumbs, but the dual shock controllers are kinda in the way for thumb play. 7. PS Vita remote play - could see this one coming a mile away. I'm just glad that the bit which was in Japanese and English wasn't the model for the entire night - the event would've been ridiculously long if they'd done that for all of it. Positive - Watch_Dogs looks amazing. Looking forward to the PC version of that!
Rawns Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) It's good to see that the PS4 is now on par with the PC in terms of graphics. It won't be long until the PC as always leaves them behind which it's already starting to do, just look at some high res shots/videos of ARMA3. I don't really like consoles, always been a PC gamer and always will be. The only thing I could ever want to see is cross-platform online play (like Valve were meant to include in CS:GO). With firends playing the same games like COD on PS3, Xbox 360 and PC, I'd LOVE to be able to play in a game with all of them, and then batter them senseless for using a controller!!! Edited February 21, 2013 by Rawns
Michael Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I think come the winter time I'll be able to turn the central heating down. With those kind of specs in a console, it's going to generate a lot heat! I definitely think Sony have been generous in terms of the amount of memory compared to the PS3. This will certainly help with games running at a full 1080p or indeed 4K later on. 4K's essentially 4 x HD for those that don't know. As for the controller, Sony will always tweak it just to justify customers going out and buying new controllers... Microsoft will do the same, it's guaranteed. My only fear is that us techies will look at the specs for all of 5 mins and then realise yet again there's a lack of upcoming games for the platform. Sony really need to get this right. It's games/features that sell a platform, not its specifications. When most people go to buy a notebook, it's mostly the brand, look and feel customers look for. The specifications come second as most do not understand or typically get system RAM confused with hard disk capacity or visa versa.
localzuk Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 The graphics are all well and good, but just look at the growth of indie gaming recently. Minecraft, Don't Starve, 10,000,000, FTL, The Binding of Isaac etc.. All brilliant games, all popular and selling well (ok, not COD numbers of sales but considering the development budgets, very profitable amounts), gameplay is highlighted as massively important. Would Minecraft be better with HD graphics? I don't think so. I've not bought a new FPS for quite a few years - as they're pretty much all the same, just with different graphics.
Rawns Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 The graphics are all well and good, but just look at the growth of indie gaming recently. Minecraft, Don't Starve, 10,000,000, FTL, The Binding of Isaac etc.. All brilliant games, all popular and selling well (ok, not COD numbers of sales but considering the development budgets, very profitable amounts), gameplay is highlighted as massively important. Would Minecraft be better with HD graphics? I don't think so. I've not bought a new FPS for quite a few years - as they're pretty much all the same, just with different graphics. Agree with the Indie comments. I LOVE Terraria, Super Meat Boy, Braid and a load of other indie games! Never got on with Minecraft, but it does show how a simple and well implemented game idea can go. Completely disagree with the FPS comment though. Yes, all COD's are almost identical, but with the likes of ARMA2 or 3, Serious Sam 3, DayZ, Half-Life, etc, they all offer a completely different FPS experience in their own right.
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 To start, I'm not a console player or fanboy. Waste of time for me, my current PC will mash the PS4 as it stands, but that's not the point. Backwards compatibility. Bleh, stop moaning! Could you play your NES games on your SNES? Your Master System games on your Megadrive? If you want continued compatibility, then stick to PC gaming. Just because the last generation of consoles offered limited backward compatibility doesn't mean it should continue to do so. It's an entirely different architecture they're going to, from what should have been a superior Cell to an x86 designed system. That makes a lot of sense, and also explains the compatibility "issues" some fanboys are concerned about. Ah well, no doubt it'll be silly expensive. People who want it will buy it and enjoy it, as they should - it's a home entertainment system, and what I expect will be one of the last of it's breed. "Next time round" it will be a moot service.
sonofsanta Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Hmmm. As powerful as that looks - 8Gb GDDR5 is effing brilliant after the paucity of RAM this generation - all of it will count for naught if the Xbox isn't similarly powerful, as the majority of games will still be cross-platform and designed to the lowest common denominator. There'll be some astonishing first-party titles, but the majority will still be gimped by the Xbox's rumoured lack of fast RAM (sticking with the EDRAM model, I believe). Backwards compatibilty is a recent thing anyway, only the PS2 did it prior to this generation, so the lack of it doesn't surprise me. PowerPC was inevitably going to be abandoned, I think. Not liking this low-clocked Jaguar CPU business either, in this or Durango. Though maybe it will mean that PC games will use more than two cores at long last, that shift in development might save AMD & its current CPUs more than the money made directly from these consoles.
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Plenty of games use multiple cores - in fact some have been so long before multiple cores were even a thing! (anything id software is a good example). They're the exception though, unfortunately.
Theblacksheep Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Of course $0000 PCs will beat it, but I think its gone a cheap way of getting a high end gaming experience as it will ultimately be the price of a mid range GFX card. Not everyone has 1k every 18 months to spend on a PC. This step up will also drive PC games which can get held back for the lowest common denominator. Its good for all gamers. GDDR5 is a great addition, along with a lower powered chip to do the basics in the background. You wont require an internet connection the whole time to play your game and it'll play used games (EA, Activision and Ubisoft will do their darn best to stop you with online passes).
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 1k? Where the hell do you shop for gaming PCs - alienware? Half that and you're nearer the mark. With the launch price of the PS3 as a go-figure, I'd imagine there'll only be a hundred or so odd quid inbetween a PS4 and a comparable PC. But this isn't a console vs PC thread.
localzuk Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 1k? Where the hell do you shop for gaming PCs - alienware? Half that and you're nearer the mark. With the launch price of the PS3 as a go-figure, I'd imagine there'll only be a hundred or so odd quid inbetween a PS4 and a comparable PC. But this isn't a console vs PC thread. My machine cost me about £1k I think. Couple of hundred for the GPU, £150ish for the CPU, £150 for the Mobo, £100 for an SSD, £100 for a HDD, £150 for case + PSU + DVDRW, £50 for RAM. Add in monitors, speakers, keyboard + mouse, and you're over £1k.
featured_spectre Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 To start, I'm not a console player or fanboy. Waste of time for me, my current PC will mash the PS4 as it stands, but that's not the point. Backwards compatibility. Bleh, stop moaning! Could you play your NES games on your SNES? Your Master System games on your Megadrive? If you want continued compatibility, then stick to PC gaming. Just because the last generation of consoles offered limited backward compatibility doesn't mean it should continue to do so. It's an entirely different architecture they're going to, from what should have been a super. Actually yes...i can play the nes games on the snes and the master system games on the mega drive. The respective companies released a special cartridge 6 weeks after release due to demand.
Theblacksheep Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) 1k? Where the hell do you shop for gaming PCs - alienware? Half that and you're nearer the mark. With the launch price of the PS3 as a go-figure, I'd imagine there'll only be a hundred or so odd quid inbetween a PS4 and a comparable PC. But this isn't a console vs PC thread. I think my PC cost about 600 to build (250 on a 570 alone), but that didn't include a monitor, OS or BR drive. I doubt many PC gamers will stay with the same setup for 6 years, it'll get some sort of refresh. Console games get optimised, PC games just lazily use more resources with an ever inflating underlying OS. That's not a PC bash, its reality of programmers and resources (i've worked on sony, nintendo, sega and PC games). Overall I've spent about 1k the gaming PC (ignoring the laptop) over the 6 years I've had the PS3 (220 plus shipping from japan = 350). Edited February 21, 2013 by Theblacksheep
Rawns Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Console gaming is like a mass supermarket produced loaf of white sliced bread. PC gaming is like a freshly made artisan crafted loaf. People compare new PC/upgrade costs to consoles but in the long run, PC gamers like myself don't splash out out £400/300/200 etc on a new/second hand games console. I just put the cost of it straight into my PC which I get soooo much more use out of, not just for gaming but from a wealth of other uses. I bet most console owners have a separate laptop/PC too. And if you put the cost of a new console along side the cost of an equivalent PC/laptop, you could easily get a quality gaming rig to last you a good few years. Not to mention the cost of games over a PC's and console life span. Consoles cant even touch the value that Steam sales provide and most new bing name titles come in at around £20 more the the PC version. And no worries about backward compatibility either to which so many people make a fuss over. I can still run games form the 90's on my PC! Edited February 21, 2013 by Rawns
Theblacksheep Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I like console games and PC games, its not really about one of the other. Sticking with one doesn't make sense to me, there's games I enjoy playing on consoles that aren't available on PC (MGS, GT, Demon Souls, Ni No Kuni) and vice versa (arma, dayz).
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Point here being the PS4 *is* a PC. In fact it's closer to a Mac as it's more single purpose without upgrades or hardware/software changes in mind. Same architecture, same style GPU, same sort of storage. I'm almost certain we won't see any more generations after this as there'll be no point.
Domino Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 horses for courses, why do people get so upset that everyone isn't a fan of THEIR specific favourite. I personally like to be able to sit on the couch after work, talk to the missus, and shoot people in their stupid faces over the internet on my PS3. Lots of my friends are on PSN, and I enjoy not having to play with graphics settings to get a game working properly. Also, I've a PS+ subscription, and every month I get a raft of games to play that I wouldn't have otherwise tried (red dead redemption, Bioshock 2, Sleeping Dogs, etc etc ) I also play steam games, but only when I have something I really wanna try out thats not available elsewhere. I don't have a dedicated gaming rig, cause it'd have to go in the study - I don't really wanna be cut off from my missus when I only get to see her 3 evenings out of 7. Why is that an issue?
mac_shinobi Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Few questions 1. How much will it cost ? 2. Any photos of what the console and controllers look like ? 3. If it is 4k compatible then will they release 4k blu rays for movies etc ?
localzuk Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Few questions 1. How much will it cost ? 2. Any photos of what the console and controllers look like ? 3. If it is 4k compatible then will they release 4k blu rays for movies etc ? Only one that can be answered at the moment - number 2. PS4 controller revealed: introducing the DualShock 4 | News | TechRadar
Theblacksheep Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Point here being the PS4 *is* a PC. In fact it's closer to a Mac as it's more single purpose without upgrades or hardware/software changes in mind. Same architecture, same style GPU, same sort of storage. I'm almost certain we won't see any more generations after this as there'll be no point. Thats like saying theres no point to a mac because its the same hardware as a PC. Proprietary devices of common underlaying hardware are only increasing in sales. Consoles have always offered devs a stable platform to build on for a few years, they have also pioneered small hardware innovations that drive industry, it also generates huge amounts of money so it will take a large shift for this to disappear any time soon.
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Thats like saying theres no point to a mac because its the same hardware as a PC. Proprietary devices of common underlaying hardware are only increasing in sales. Consoles have always offered devs a stable platform to build on for a few years, they have also pioneered small hardware innovations that drive industry, it also generates huge amounts of money so it will take a large shift for this to disappear any time soon. Not really my point - I meant there won't be a point in having a separate console from a PC from a media player for obvious reasons. Which way the merge *will* happen is not so clear but it's likely to go to a more stable unified system leaving PC style kit open for enthusiast markets. And yes, for those wondering, I really AM saying it'll move more towards an Apple style system. From me, the world's biggest (sensible) Apple hater. Edited February 21, 2013 by synaesthesia
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