Microsoft TAP = kick in the teeth for EES subscribers

[StevieM]

Last year I took out a 3-year EES for Windows. This means I can purchase Windows Home licences and upgrade to Windows Pro at no additional cost. If I end our subscription, we must revert to Home.

 

The Technology Access Programme gives certain manufacturers and resellers the opportunity to offer Windows Pro licences with new PCs at a greatly reduced cost (although, I suspect, not as greatly reduced as some of them may obtain it for!). That's great. I'm sure it will be good news for a lot of schools. But for me, as a subscriber, I feel like I've been kicked in the teeth.

 

If I buy a new suite of PCs through TAP, I'm effectively writing off the next two year's worth of EES subscription, because I no longer need Pro upgrade rights. If I want to buy a new suite of PCs that are not eligible through TAP (which I do), not only do I have to pay an additional £60 per machine for a Home licence, I'll also lose the right to use Pro if I choose to end the subscription.

 

Come on, Microsoft. If you REALLY want the benefits to go to schools, why not offer Pro eligibility for EES subscribers without the upgrade caveat?

[Boredguy]

To be honest, EES covers more than just the OS upgrade, so it's worth it for the CAL's and Office alone... and your not paying for the license per workstation but per FTE employee

 

Not to mention your OS upgrade is Software Assured, so you can move to Windows 9 when it comes out for no additional fee.

£30-£33 per year for OS upgrades, CALS and Office 20xx is still cheaper than having to continually buying new licenses every time you want to update the fleet (pl

[Hefferzzzz]

Last year I took out a 3-year EES for Windows. This means I can purchase Windows Home licences and upgrade to Windows Pro at no additional cost. If I end our subscription, we must revert to Home.

 

The Technology Access Programme gives certain manufacturers and resellers the opportunity to offer Windows Pro licences with new PCs at a greatly reduced cost (although, I suspect, not as greatly reduced as some of them may obtain it for!). That's great. I'm sure it will be good news for a lot of schools. But for me, as a subscriber, I feel like I've been kicked in the teeth.

 

If I buy a new suite of PCs through TAP, I'm effectively writing off the next two year's worth of EES subscription, because I no longer need Pro upgrade rights. If I want to buy a new suite of PCs that are not eligible through TAP (which I do), not only do I have to pay an additional £60 per machine for a Home licence, I'll also lose the right to use Pro if I choose to end the subscription.

 

Come on, Microsoft. If you REALLY want the benefits to go to schools, why not offer Pro eligibility for EES subscribers without the upgrade caveat?

 

Dont buy the desktop os licence on your EES then?

 

The EES is actually a very cheap way to stay up to date with a lot of other licences not just desktop OS. Not to mention you only licence based on full time employers and not the actual number of desktops.

 

I am no MS lover but EES is one of the better things they have done for a while.

 

Cant see the problem with TAP/Shape the future either TBH. People have been moaning for years that they dont want the OS as they already have one.

[XiJ]

As above, office, cals and SA make it worth while alone for EES. I understand your point though.

[XiJ]

I fact we partner with a company how aren't a 'big manufacturer' and don't have access to TAP. A pain them and us with the requirement to buy Win 7 home for £60 as you said.

 

I'd like to see Microsoft extend the program to other reputable resellers

[zag]

I have a funny feeling this will all become irrelevant when windows 9 comes out and Microsoft changes the cost of windows for good

 

Just a feeling though

[jamesbmarshall]

Last year I took out a 3-year EES for Windows. This means I can purchase Windows Home licences and upgrade to Windows Pro at no additional cost. If I end our subscription, we must revert to Home.

 

The Technology Access Programme gives certain manufacturers and resellers the opportunity to offer Windows Pro licences with new PCs at a greatly reduced cost (although, I suspect, not as greatly reduced as some of them may obtain it for!). That's great. I'm sure it will be good news for a lot of schools. But for me, as a subscriber, I feel like I've been kicked in the teeth.

 

If I buy a new suite of PCs through TAP, I'm effectively writing off the next two year's worth of EES subscription, because I no longer need Pro upgrade rights. If I want to buy a new suite of PCs that are not eligible through TAP (which I do), not only do I have to pay an additional £60 per machine for a Home licence, I'll also lose the right to use Pro if I choose to end the subscription.

 

Come on, Microsoft. If you REALLY want the benefits to go to schools, why not offer Pro eligibility for EES subscribers without the upgrade caveat?

 

I'm confused...

 

OVS-ES and EES are based on your FTE staff count, not device count?

 

If you buy devices that ship with a Windows 8.1 SKU rather than Pro, you can still upgrade them to Windows 8.1 Pro or Enterprise as long as you're covered for Windows via your OVS-ES or EES agreements courtesy of Software Assurance.

 

Have I missed the point?

[StevieM]

Forgive the length of this post, but bear with me and allow me to clarify my position.

 

OVS/EES (I'm talking specifically about OS subscriptions) and TAP are a bit like paracetamol and Lemsip; both can be good for you if you have a cold, but not if you take them together.

 

Last year, we had a suite of PCs running XP that needed to upgrade to Windows 7. As the machines were coming towards end of life, it seemed a waste to buy individual upgrade licences. A subscription seemed the obvious answer. It allowed us to upgrade the OS on the existing machines and, when we replaced them, we could purchase the cheaper Home Premium and upgrade to Pro and no additional cost. We could do the same the following year when were due to replace our other suite, and again when we replaced the staff laptops. Excellent! I signed up for a 3-year subscription for OS and Office only, as we'd already purchased Server and CALs outright.

 

Now it's time to replace those machines and I've got two quotes:

 

Supplier A is offering a PC of average build quality and average reliability for £350 per unit.*

Supplier B is offering a PC of significantly better build quality and reliability for only £340 per unit.*

(*Not actual prices, but relative for this example.)

 

There's no contest then, I hear you say. Go for supplier B. It's a no brainer!

 

But wait - the computers from supplier B aren't available through TAP so I have to add an additional £60 per unit for Home Premium just so I can upgrade it to Pro through a subscription that I'm already paying for. The computers from supplier A, however, are available through TAP and come complete with Pro.

 

Question: If supplier A couldn't offer the computers through TAP, would they charge £410 to supply them with Home Premium? I doubt it - and that means that some of the savings intended for schools are being turned into extra profit for the suppliers. For example, a supplier purchases a licence through TAP for £1, inflates the price of the hardware by £20 (because it's still cheaper for the consumer than paying £60 for a licence), sells 50 units to a school and makes a cool extra £950 on the deal. How is that good for schools?

 

Here's my dilemma - Do I purchase an inferior product at an inflated price so I don't have to pay an additional premium for a base OS? If that's the case, only 4 PCs in the school will be benefiting from the OS subscription that we're tied into for the next two years and, if we cancel the subscription at the end, I'll still have to purchase Pro licences for those four machines!

 

Or do I purchase the superior product and take the hit of a £60 premium per unit so that I can upgrade to an OS that non-subscribers can get 'for free'?

 

If Microsoft did away with the upgrade only status and 'gave away' the OS to subscribers like they're 'giving it away' through TAP, it really would be the schools that benefitted from the deal and not suppliers looking to make a fast buck.

 

In my opinion.

[localzuk]

I have to say, I have never understood the use of a 3 year agreement. The variation in price has never been enough to justify locking ourselves in for 3 years in my view (sadly, when I wasn't here for a year, my replacement disagreed and signed us up to a 3 year agreement).

 

If you had posted this before buying the agreement, I'd've said "go for 1 year".

[StevieM]

If you had posted this before buying the agreement, I'd've said "go for 1 year".

 

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

 

EDIT: Saying that, I don't want to buy the cheaper (yet strangely more expensive) machines. I want the good ones. I just don't want to be penalised by Microsoft for doing so.

 

EDIT: EDIT: Love the double contraction I'd've. Works for me!

Edited September 16, 2014 by StevieM

[Hefferzzzz]

Some companies make MS millions of dollars, some dont.

 

Also its not the suppliers that get these deals (rewards), its the manufacturers. So while Lenovo, Dell, HP will be able to negotiate it beause of the amount of revenue they generate, the guy in his shed knocking up PCs wont be able to.

 

 

Surely you can justify the extra £ if the unit is so much better in quality? Or are you saying you want better quality for the same price as average quality?

[tmcd35]

I'm feeling a bit dense here, I'm not sure I actually follow what the issue is.

 

We pay for a 3yr EES sub. We get latest desktop OS, Office, Cals and SCCM on all PC's. We pay extra for MDOP and get App-V as well (more than worth it!).

 

When buying PC's I don't care what OS they come with. Can be Windows 98 for all I care. So long as it comes with a valid OS. If it's a good deal on Win Pro via TAP then I'd call that a bonus. If it's Win 8.1 Home fine, I'll reformat and put Win 7 Pro on regardless. I'm more interested in total price and spec of the machine. If TAP offers the same spec cheaper why complain?

[StevieM]

Surely you can justify the extra £ if the unit is so much better in quality? Or are you saying you want better quality for the same price as average quality?

 

That's EXACTLY my point! I'm being offered significantly better quality for less than average quality, but because it's not available through TAP I have to pay an additional premium for the OS which is (allegedly) being 'given away' with the poorer quality computer.

[Hefferzzzz]

That's EXACTLY my point! I'm being offered significantly better quality for less than average quality, but because it's not available through TAP I have to pay an additional premium for the OS which is (allegedly) being 'given away' with the poorer quality computer.

 

I missing the sense in that post.

[localzuk]

It seems quite simple to me. The better computer is cheaper until he adds the Windows license (non-TAP). The other computer has a better Windows license at lower cost (due to TAP) but it is lower spec.

 

If he hadn't bought into EES for 3 years, the non-TAP machines would have been the obvious choice but I'd he chooses them now, he's basically paying over the odds for his Windows licenses when compared to the TAP machines.

[Hefferzzzz]

It seems quite simple to me. The better computer is cheaper until he adds the Windows license (non-TAP). The other computer has a better Windows license at lower cost (due to TAP) but it is lower spec.

 

If he hadn't bought into EES for 3 years, the non-TAP machines would have been the obvious choice but I'd he chooses them now, he's basically paying over the odds for his Windows licenses when compared to the TAP machines.

 

He isnt paying over the odds though is he, he is paying the current price for the OS? Just because there is a promotion on with some manufacturers, it doesnt mean you are being ripped off.

[StevieM]

Just because there is a promotion on with some manufacturers, it doesnt mean you are being ripped off.

 

It does if the manufacturer/reseller inflates the price of a PC just because it's available through TAP. A bit like when a supermarket increases the price of something from £1 to £1.50 shortly before running a 'Buy two get the third free' offer.

[localzuk]

He isnt paying over the odds though is he, he is paying the current price for the OS? Just because there is a promotion on with some manufacturers, it doesnt mean you are being ripped off.

 

It means he's not able to get the best deal though.

[Hefferzzzz]

It does if the manufacturer/reseller inflates the price of a PC just because it's available through TAP. A bit like when a supermarket increases the price of something from £1 to £1.50 shortly before running a 'Buy two get the third free' offer.

 

How do you know they are inflating the price?

 

Is it cheaper than it was before TAP? Yes.

Is it cheaper overall than before TAP + OS upgrade? Yes.

Is it cheaper on TAP with EES than it was before, Yes.

 

 

Its nothing like increasing the price before a buy 2 get 1 free??

 

 

It means he's not able to get the best deal though.

 

 

He is getting a choice of the only two deals available.

 

Average quality on TAP

Better quality not on TAP

 

Honestly dont see the issue. Its like complaining about Tesco selling a rubbish yoghurt with a free spoon because the spoon manufacturer sells more units with Tesco, compared to Sainsbury selling a nicer yoghurt but you have to buy your own spoon.

[StevieM]

Honestly dont see the issue. Its like complaining about Tesco selling a rubbish yoghurt with a free spoon because the spoon manufacturer sells more units with Tesco, compared to Sainsbury selling a nicer yoghurt but you have to buy your own spoon.

 

But the spoon manufacturer has already said to me, 'Give me all your rubbish spoons and I'll replace them with shiny new top-of-the-range spoons - for a fee'.

'Ok!' I said, and handed over the money. But now, they're giving away all these shiny new spoons for free to people who buy rubbish yoghurt. But if I stop paying the fee, they're going to take my shiny spoons away and give me back my rubbish ones.

[tmcd35]

But the spoon manufacturer has already said to me, 'Give me all your rubbish spoons and I'll replace them with shiny new top-of-the-range spoons - for a fee'.

'Ok!' I said, and handed over the money. But now, they're giving away all these shiny new spoons for free to people who buy rubbish yoghurt. But if I stop paying the fee, they're going to take my shiny spoons away and give me back my rubbish ones.

 

But the spoon manufacturer isn't just giving you a spoon. They are giving you the latest spoon. With a free upgrade everytime a newer spoon is released. No that's still not right. They are giving you a complete cutlery set with a free upgrade to the latest cutlery set every time a new one is released...

[DMcCoy]

If anyone wants MDOP then anything without SA is a waste of time, because you can only get it for devices with active SA.

 

You should have seen the prices under schools agreement....

 

From what I can understand here the problem is supplier B doesn't bundle any version of Windows with the machine. Home basic would do.

[chazzy2501]

hum, comparing apples and oranges I think.

 

PC without OS

PC with Pro + TAP = extra £8

PC with Home = extra £65

 

TAP and EES work fine together.

[Edu-IT]

I hear the TAP scheme has ended?

[Steve21]

I hear the TAP scheme has ended?

 

I'd disagree Getting lots of quotes in atm all with TAP on them.

 

Steve