Why?

[IanT]

have the threads in the education forum been locked?

[powdarrmonkey]

Pre-emptive strike before the we're-not-paid-enough-get-stuffed argument starts again?

[FN-GM]

I thought it would have been to polite for who ever did it to at pm the poster as to why.

[witch]

Pre-emptive strike before the we're-not-paid-enough-get-stuffed argument starts again?

 

Yes, exactly that - I'm sorry, you're right - I should have said something (and was going to but got distracted)

Some of the mods were discussing the awful stuff that is posted about salaries etc on the jobs thread so if the thread is locked after the original post, anyone wanting to comment has to go elsewhere and leave the job as a stand-alone statement. After all, anyone wanting more info can pm the OP, and if the OP realises that he or she has made a mistake or whatever, they can report it and ask for changes.

Sounds tough, I know, but there has been some really nasty comments made in the past and people have got justifiably very upset when all they were doing was trying to offer a job.

[FN-GM]

maybe there should be a system where the thread is locked automatically or maybe give the poster rights to lock his own thread?

[witch]

maybe there should be a system where the thread is locked automatically or maybe give the poster rights to lock his own thread?

 

 

that is what we want - it is being looked into as we speak

[sparkeh]

Cool, those discussions are rarely productive, I mean do the people setting the wage read the "Rubbish pay" comments and think "You know what he is right, lets increase the salary"

[Edu-IT]

maybe there should be a system where the thread is locked automatically or maybe give the poster rights to lock his own thread?

Or just change the permissions so that nobody can reply to posts in that area of the forum other than the OP, who may have to provide updates. Easily done and better than locking the thread entirely as posts cannot be the edited I don't think.

[EduTech]

It is currently being looked at by the WebGod himself (ZeroHour), What we want is the thread's that are posted regarding job's to be locked automatically so that no one can start having ago at the OP because they have a certain issue with the job spec or salary.

 

It is not fair on the people that are posting the threads on here, who bare in mind are helping the whole community by making everyone aware of it.

 

James.

[EduTech]

Cool, those discussions are rarely productive, I mean do the people setting the wage read the "Rubbish pay" comments and think "You know what he is right, lets increase the salary"

 

Correct, they do not read them and then take what everyone has said and change it, they read it and then think what a waste of time and feel upset by it as they are just trying to help.

 

[torledo]

Cool, those discussions are rarely productive, I mean do the people setting the wage read the "Rubbish pay" comments and think "You know what he is right, lets increase the salary"

 

No, but then equally, i don't see why someone advertising or linking to a job who then reads comments on the salary should be 'upset' by those comments.

[sparkeh]

No, but then equally, i don't see why someone advertising or linking to a job who then reads comments on the salary should be 'upset' by those comments.

 

Because someone is devaluing a job that that they might have put a lot of hard work into making available? My boss and I have put a lot of hard work in trying to find a way to afford to take on a tech to assist me, if it does come off we won't be able to afford to pay a lot, if I posted the job here and was met with some of the comments that have been posted here in the past I would certainly be upset.

[witch]

I am hoping that ZeroHour can come up with a solution - I think that the thread should lock automatically but the OP can edit his posts.

Until then I was just trying to avoid the situations we have had in the past - it isn't only a question of the OP being 'upset' by negative comments, but also threads going way off topic and becoming flame wars, which IMHO is unprofessional.

As has been said, the OP isn't usually responsible for the salary, so comments about it are rarely if ever of any use

[bossman]

I feel that constructive criticism has it's benefits but in the proper context.

 

Just for people to say that the salary of a particular job is "Rubbish" is not needed but also a well constructed evaluation of the salaries for a particular position which requires good first class qualifications is I feel well within the context of the forum and therefore should be allowed.

 

I too have made positions available at a low salary only in the context that I have not been expecting a whizz kid with qualifications coming out of his/her ears.

 

I have seen positions advertised on this forum in the past which really, when looking at what qualifications and experience the employer has advertised, has left some people on this forum feeling a little downhearted and undervalued, given what sacrifices they make in the ordinary day to day running of the schools networks.

 

There is I feel room for manouvre on both sides of the fence, someone once said "A fair day's pay for a fair day's work" and I feel in our line of work that most of the time that the "fair day's pay" does not seem to materialise as opposed to other staff pay within the schools.

 

This is just an evaluation of some of the job posts on the forum and I feel that sometimes this merits a little understanding from all concerned.

[torledo]

well said bossman.

[EduTech]

I feel that constructive criticism has it's benefits but in the proper context.

 

Just for people to say that the salary of a particular job is "Rubbish" is not needed but also a well constructed evaluation of the salaries for a particular position which requires good first class qualifications is I feel well within the context of the forum and therefore should be allowed.

 

I too have made positions available at a low salary only in the context that I have not been expecting a whizz kid with qualifications coming out of his/her ears.

 

I have seen positions advertised on this forum in the past which really, when looking at what qualifications and experience the employer has advertised, has left some people on this forum feeling a little downhearted and undervalued, given what sacrifices they make in the ordinary day to day running of the schools networks.

 

There is I feel room for manouvre on both sides of the fence, someone once said "A fair day's pay for a fair day's work" and I feel in our line of work that most of the time that the "fair day's pay" does not seem to materialise as opposed to other staff pay within the schools.

 

This is just an evaluation of some of the job posts on the forum and I feel that sometimes this merits a little understanding from all concerned.

 

I'm going to be honest and say well said because i do think you have a good point, as much as i do agree with what you are saying we are having way too many threads just go way off topic turning into flame war's as which stated. This is something we need to try and prevent and in order to do that we feel that that would be the best way forward.

 

One thing we have also said is that if someone feels that something is wrong then there is no reason why they cannot make another thread or like we have had in the past problems with the advert i.e. Spelling, Error etc then just a simple PM to the OP would be fine as i am sure they would prefer that then shouting it out in public.

 

.... am i contradicting myself now lol!

Edited January 19, 2010 by EduTech

[sparkeh]

I feel that constructive criticism has it's benefits but in the proper context.

 

Just for people to say that the salary of a particular job is "Rubbish" is not needed but also a well constructed evaluation of the salaries for a particular position which requires good first class qualifications is I feel well within the context of the forum and therefore should be allowed.

 

I too have made positions available at a low salary only in the context that I have not been expecting a whizz kid with qualifications coming out of his/her ears.

 

I have seen positions advertised on this forum in the past which really, when looking at what qualifications and experience the employer has advertised, has left some people on this forum feeling a little downhearted and undervalued, given what sacrifices they make in the ordinary day to day running of the schools networks.

 

There is I feel room for manouvre on both sides of the fence, someone once said "A fair day's pay for a fair day's work" and I feel in our line of work that most of the time that the "fair day's pay" does not seem to materialise as opposed to other staff pay within the schools.

 

This is just an evaluation of some of the job posts on the forum and I feel that sometimes this merits a little understanding from all concerned.

 

Done in the proper way, I would say that discussion on the current value placed on our jobs is a welcome debate. I just don't think it should be done directly under a job advert. I doubt that anyone would respond to a job advert in a newspaper by writing into the paper pointing to discuss the wages advertised.

 

We should also bear in mind that members will be applying for these jobs and debating whether the wage is appropriate or not directly under the advert could be demoralising for them.

[IanT]

Fair doos

[HarryMonkey]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that personally, the thread containing the job ad IS the place for discussing it, otherwise we could end up with loads of different threads all about one job. Healthy discussion regarding a job opportunity is a good thing. Obviously, anyone becoming rude or flaming is out of order but that can (and will) happen in any thread. If the OP gets upset, surely a simple PM to a mod to have a post removed or a PM to the person who has stepped out of line would be better than locking threads which just dicsourages discussion of a vacancy.

[mattx]

Someone stating they think the pay for a job is rubbish is someone's opinion - to someone else that job may be fantastic. Unless foul or abbusive language is used I personally feel this is not a problem. There is too much sensitivity around sometimes and not enough 'telling you how it is' attitude.

[witch]

Done in the proper way, I would say that discussion on the current value placed on our jobs is a welcome debate. I just don't think it should be done directly under a job advert. I doubt that anyone would respond to a job advert in a newspaper by writing into the paper pointing to discuss the wages advertised.

We should also bear in mind that members will be applying for these jobs and debating whether the wage is appropriate or not directly under the advert could be demoralising for them.

 

Well said

 

That is the way we are thinking - it is not that fair discussion cannot take place AT ALL, just that a jobs forum is just that. I take the point about lots of threads about the same job, but if the poster titled his thread properly, this should be limited.

Also, if the OP wishes to modify or explain something in the job thread - sometimes it gets buried under all the comment, or appears way down on page 4 so anyone studying the job might miss it.

 

I say again, and sorry if there has been misunderstanding - reasoned discussion, without abuse or flaming, is absolutely fine and not a problem at all, just not in what is, in effect, an advert thread

[HarryMonkey]

Well said

 

That is the way we are thinking - it is not that fair discussion cannot take place AT ALL, just that a jobs forum is just that. I take the point about lots of threads about the same job, but if the poster titled his thread properly, this should be limited.

Also, if the OP wishes to modify or explain something in the job thread - sometimes it gets buried under all the comment, or appears way down on page 4 so anyone studying the job might miss it.

 

I say again, and sorry if there has been misunderstanding - reasoned discussion, without abuse or flaming, is absolutely fine and not a problem at all, just not in what is, in effect, an advert thread

 

So, by the same token then, if I start a thread with a link to a YouTube video in it , just as a link to visit as a fun video or something, then discussion of this video should take place in a different thread as, after all, the original link is just an advert for that video ???

[sparkeh]

So, by the same token then, if I start a thread with a link to a YouTube video in it , just as a link to visit as a fun video or something, then discussion of this video should take place in a different thread as, after all, the original link is just an advert for that video ???

 

How does that even equate at all?

[witch]

So, by the same token then, if I start a thread with a link to a YouTube video in it , just as a link to visit as a fun video or something, then discussion of this video should take place in a different thread as, after all, the original link is just an advert for that video ???

 

Of course it isn't an 'advert for that video' - it is you posting something that you WANT people to comment on, whereas a job advert is a static thing, with info in it so that those who need more information about it can contact someone direct.

Not the same token at all.

[HarryMonkey]

How does that even equate at all?

 

Becasue if the first post in a thread is an advert, the discusion for it should be in a different thread. What you are advertising is irrelevant.