Malicious Websites

[localzuk]

Clearly I'm not explaining myself very well.

 

I agree with you that in school grounds or during school hours or when using school equipment then the school has the unquestionable ability to revoke pupils ability to use computers, the internet, email, the bathroom, chairs, shoelaces, left handed doors or whatever else the school feels is appropriate punishment. The ultimate punishment being exclusion/expulsion from school.

 

However off school grounds, out of school hours, or when not using school equipment none of these measures can be applied. Indeed, the school has no authority to do so. It's not a police force and shouldn't try to be one.

 

For example, you cannot say "Anyone who uses MySpace, Facebook or BeBo in school or at home will be suspended". You can't do this because Article 10 doesn't allow it. The school is most definitely a public body and Article 10 makes no exceptions for different mediums of expression. In fact it specifically says that there is no limit to the type of medium that can be used to 'express' ideas. Unless you need a license to use it. Last time I checked, you didn't need a government license to surf the net or post a blog (maybe next year eh?).

 

The point is, you still haven't told me which right would actually be infringed by removing a luxury for activity outside school. There is no right to internet access, it is not a necessity for schools to provide it.

 

If kids can't be trusted to use the internet well, inside or outside school then it is completely within the school's rights to restrict access in school in order to minimise the future possibility of kids causing problems via the network. I just can't see any rights being infringed here.

[alan-d]

Back to the OP.

 

You can create an account with bebo and complain about an entry on a page. As long as you explain the circumstances. We have done this in the past with bebo, myspace and youtube.

 

We hold the view that if the entry brings the schools name into disrepute, offends a member of staff or student then the site is contacted to have it removed. If known, the student is punished and the parents shown the material and corrective measures discussed.

 

It is clearly stated in our AUP 'Do not bring the School, or members of the school community into disrespect by publishing material on the Internet which is then available for public viewing.'

 

This makes it a cut and shut case in most incidents, ie no Human rights issues, no get out of jail free card and not a leg to stand on.

 

This is backed up by both parents and the LEA.

 

Most sites like bebo are very helpful and will do as requested if given sufficient reason. Just word your complaint carefully and in a professional manner.

[sqdge]

If a teacher had written a site about a pupil called something like "We Hate Little Jimmy" then I imagine there would be quite an uproar. Why should it be any different the other way around?

 

We have found one of the pupils who created one of the sites, and the police are going to prosecute them. It does not infringe on the child's rights to freedom of speech since what they are writing is considered libel.

 

It appears that a child is perfectly within their rights to write "I hate Mr. Sqdge because he is always telling me off" and publish it on the web. However, if they write "Mr. Sqdge likes to suck eggs whilst doing a little dance" then that is considered libel, and thus the child has crossed the legal/illegal boundary, regardless of whether the item was written in school (which it wasn't), written at home, or written at a friend's house.

 

I don't think the kids necessarily realise that publishing a comment on the web is no different to having something published in a book. It is in the public domain, and so it is governed by the same laws.

[Geoff]

The point is, you still haven't told me which right would actually be infringed by removing a luxury for activity outside school. There is no right to internet access, it is not a necessity for schools to provide it.

 

If kids can't be trusted to use the internet well, inside or outside school then it is completely within the school's rights to restrict access in school in order to minimise the future possibility of kids causing problems via the network. I just can't see any rights being infringed here.

 

Everyone has a right to freedom of expression. The Human rights act does not make any distinction based on the medium where this expression is made.

 

In school, I agree, pupils access to the Internet is not a right. Out of school, it's up to the parents NOT the school. Your jurisdiction over the pupils begins and ends at the school gates and when the school bell rings.

 

Once the material is up. Then it depends what it depicts and when it was posted. The school has to prove that either:

• The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds
  
• or in school hours.
  
• The material was posted using school equipment.

If you can't prove this, you have no grounds to try and remove the information or punish any pupils involved.

 

It is clearly stated in our AUP 'Do not bring the School, or members of the school community into disrespect by publishing material on the Internet which is then available for public viewing.'

 

This makes it a cut and shut case in most incidents, ie no Human rights issues, no get out of jail free card and not a leg to stand on.

 

This is backed up by both parents and the LEA.

 

Not quite, you have to be aware that out of school hours/grounds this basically boils down to asking the parents with some scary language not to let their kids do anything silly on the Internet. You cannot sign your basic rights away in a contract.

 

Most sites like bebo are very helpful and will do as requested if given sufficient reason. Just word your complaint carefully and in a professional manner.

 

That's great, now what about P2P?

[Pottsey]

Why not have an assembly mention IP address and how you can trace then back to a precise location and time. If you mention the police as well you might be able to scare the children into taken the content down even if you don’t plan on following that path.

 

 

 

 

“There is no right to internet access, it is not a necessity for schools to provide it.”

Its not a luxury any more it’s a must have item that we cannot take away. Every child is meant to have online storage space by 2008 or something like that. Every child should be using the Internet at some point in IT lessons and taught about it. In Nottinghamshire every child has to have internet access and should already have online work space for pupils and teachers. Perhaps not 24/7 acess but its got to be there. We all have to have EMBC broadband and should have access to the online learning network here.

[webman]

I don't think localzuk has any intention of removing internet access from kids at home. This would be nigh-on impossible.

[localzuk]

In school, I agree, pupils access to the Internet is not a right. Out of school, it's up to the parents NOT the school. Your jurisdiction over the pupils begins and ends at the school gates and when the school bell rings.

 

Ah, but the school has jurisdiction over the services it provides in school and as such can use them to find out who did what regarding its teachers outside school. I am not saying anything to do with removing internet access at home - as that is just not possible. In school, kids do not have a right to internet access. It is a privilege that can be taken away at the whim of the management.

 

“There is no right to internet access, it is not a necessity for schools to provide it.”

Its not a luxury any more it’s a must have item that we cannot take away. Every child is meant to have online storage space by 2008 or something like that. Every child should be using the Internet at some point in IT lessons and taught about it. In Nottinghamshire every child has to have internet access. Perhaps not 24/7 acess but its got to be there. We all have to have EMBC broadband and access to the learning network as well around here.

 

Yes, you do have to use it as part of the national curriculum. However, this only goes as far as for educational purposes. Any other use is simply a privilege and is provided at the discretion of the school.

[alan-d]

@ sqdge - useful contacts can be found here including Yahoo and MySpace.

 

@ geoff

Once the material is up. Then it depends what it depicts and when it was posted. The school has to prove that either:

 

The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds

or in school hours.

 

The material was posted using school equipment.

 

What crap is that? Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.

 

You can preach all you like about an individuals rights and freedom to use the internet, but be prepared to preach from the other side, that is the rights of people to live free of abuse and a right to privacy.

[Geoff]

Ah, but the school has jurisdiction over the services it provides in school and as such can use them to find out who did what regarding its teachers outside school.

 

That's fine, there's no problem with you 'investigating' something that happened out of school (other than perhaps it's technically misuse of school resources). If you turn something up you should pass it the information to the police (if it involves something criminal) or to the teachers legal representative (if it doesn't). If it's something minor then simply confronting the parents is sufficient.

 

Now, as I keep saying. Given said 'evidence' you simply cannot punish students in school for what they did out of school. That's completely inappropriate. It's up to the judge/magistrate/parent to sort out. Not the school.

 

I am not saying anything to do with removing internet access at home - as that is just not possible.

 

No, it is possible. It's up to the parents though.

 

In school, kids do not have a right to internet access. It is a privilege that can be taken away at the whim of the management.

 

Yes.

 

Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.

 

That's right.

 

You can preach all you like about an individuals rights and freedom to use the internet, but be prepared to preach from the other side, that is the rights of people to live free of abuse and a right to privacy.

 

That's right too.

[alan-d]

Regardless of where or what equipment is used, abuse of another individual or organisation is unacceptable in our society.

 

That's right.

 

 

Glad you agree

 

So can you elaborate on this remark?

 

The school has to prove that either:

[*]The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds

[*]or in school hours.

[*]The material was posted using school equipment

 

 

Ta!

[localzuk]

Now, as I keep saying. Given said 'evidence' you simply cannot punish students in school for what they did out of school. That's completely inappropriate. It's up to the judge/magistrate/parent to sort out. Not the school.

 

That's the thing - using restrictions on the internet will turn up more information as kids tell on each other when pushed into a place they don't like. The school has a duty to do everything it can to protect its employees from abuse both inside and outside school if it is due to their job that they are receiving the abuse (which, in 99.99% of cases it will be).

 

The restrictions wouldn't be a case of 'punishment' but a case of coercing the kids to report the culprit.

[Geoff]

So can you elaborate on this remark?

 

The school has to prove that either:

[*]The incident described or depicted occurred on school grounds

[*]or in school hours.

[*]The material was posted using school equipment

 

 

Ta!

 

As, hopefully, you've noticed. I'm trying to explain that it is question of jurisdiction. The school has no power to dictate what a student can say/write/publish/blog when not attending school or off school premises. If the student says something that offends the school or its staff out of hours at home the existing civil and criminal legal systems offer a adequate opportunity for restitution. However, in most cases, nothing so extreme is required. Simply communicating concerns to the parents and having them deal with it is sufficient. Any attempt by the school to punish the student in school for something said out of school is a violation of their 'freedom of expression'.

 

The restrictions wouldn't be a case of 'punishment' but a case of coercing the kids to report the culprit.

 

Otherwise known as blackmail, and that's Article 6 out the window with it (going for the full set perhaps?). Sorry, you lose.

[localzuk]

Nope, it wouldn't be blackmail, as I have said that there are no rights being broken by using the schools tools to get information. Just privileges. It is not a right to have access to unrestricted internet in school and as such the school can decide that due to unscrupulous behaviour, it can be more unscrupulous itself. It just wouldn't violate any human rights...

[Geoff]

Except your doing it with 'intent' to extract information. That changes the game completely. Your into criminal charges (rather than civil) being placed against the school.

[alan-d]

The school, within the guidelines published by the government of the day has the right to punish students who contravene any rules the school imposes.

 

In our case, one rule is that no individual is to use any form of communication, including the internet, to slander or abuse any other individual connected to the school, including the school itself.

 

This isn't intended to be 'Big Brother' but is a tool to educate and reduce incidents of bullying.

 

It makes no difference, where the abuse is input or what equipment they use. The offence is against the school or individual within it.

 

In the past we have, expelled students from school for a period for breaking the school rules. Before you ask - yes - parents are consulted and informed throughout the process.

 

I agree that a student (or member of staff for that matter) using the internet to make abusive or otherwise offensive comments to any other individual outside our own organisation, cannot be punished by the school. However, there is nothing to stop the school educating the individual on the proper use of the Internet and informing the parents what is happening. We are in the education business afterall!

[Anti]

I agree with alan-d. Pupils should be suspended for making any attacks against the school or other pupils, no matter when or where it occurs. There are proper complaints channels if they are not happy about something.

 

The thing is, if they get away with doing it, how does that prepare them for adult life? It is likely that doing the same thing as an adult will lose them their place at university or their job, and may result in them losing thousands of pounds in a civil lawsuit. It is better to learn about the consequences whilst they are still a child.

 

However, that doesn't solve the OP problem, because they don't know who the account belongs to (or rather, they might have a very good idea who, but don't have any proof).

[localzuk]

Except your doing it with 'intent' to extract information. That changes the game completely. Your into criminal charges (rather than civil) being placed against the school.

 

But there are no laws being broken. You are using the human rights thing too widely. As I have said, internet access is simply there for education. Using it for other things is a privilege and as such the school can hallow this or disallow it for whatever reason they want. There wouldn't be any rights issues at all.

[t_guest]

try contacting the owner of the site or the webmaster and report the problem they should get back to you remember some sites don't have control over content or pictures

[rsarg]

If u ask me i think u r goin the wrong way about say it was u in the school and u got the internet taken way limiting your education u wouldn't be happy at all. exspecially if u had nothing to do with it and knew nothing about it

[Anti]

> u got the internet taken way limiting your education

 

I got 9 GCSE, 5 Highers and a diploma without any internet what-so-ever. When the internet was introduced, the other methods of learning and research did not simply vanish; they are still available. So I disagree that it limits your education - in fact with regards to copy/pasting and trying to filter inaccurate information, it damages your education! The only thing you couldn't ban is use of computers for actual ICT classes.

 

> u wouldn't be happy at all. exspecially if u had nothing to do with it

> and knew nothing about it

 

Draw an analogy - if one unknown student vandalised something in the sports hall, common room, library, etc, it would not be unreasonable to ban everyone from using those areas for a fixed time as a penalty, or until the culprit came forward; peer pressure is a wonderful thing sometimes. If an unknown pupil attacked the school or staff using the internet, why would banning the use of school computers (for everything other than ICT lessons) be any different?

 

I think 'human rights' in the West are a ridiculous notion anyway, due to the litigation culture in America. People with real human rights issues are being incarcerated without trial, have their possessions and homes taken from them, and are beaten, raped, tortured and killed.

 

Yet we hear stupid things like 'it's my right to have a phone even though I make crank calls on it'; 'it's my right to smoke where I want even though it disturbs everyone else in the restaurant.'; or 'it's my right to play loud music in my own house, even if it wakes the neighbours.' These are not human rights; they are just the whinging of a selfish, irresponsible culture.

 

The right to 'free speech' is supposed to be there for people who might otherwise be shot for being critical of their government, not for some spoilt brat who decides to publicly call his teacher names because he knows no-one will do anything about it. This is a disgusting, warped view of legislation that is meant to protect lives and fair leadership.

[acrobson]

We have had a few issues like this, on each occassion the police have been involved with their CCU, however we have also found it useful to get the IWF (Internet watch foundation) involved as well, the police have always worked well with them and the job gets done even quicker.

 

The new is below if it's of any help:

 

020 860 5300

 

All the best, i know how frustrating things like this can be, daily occurnace for me!

[rsarg]

Anti you may have got them qualifications but times have changed and alot more of the learning process come from diffrent media i.e. the internet. there r that many useful websites now for the core subjects that i feel it would not give pupils the same chance as others in other schools, as for the rest of your comment i do agree.

[Guest Guest]

I got 9 GCSE, 5 Highers and a diploma without any internet what-so-ever.

 

And i bet thers some on here who never saw a calculator and used tables to calculate complicated equations. Or what about pens, 100yrs ago they were using a peice of slate and some chalk, rubbing out their work as they run out of room on the slate, never to be seen/revised from again.

 

How about we go back to some slate and log books? Stupid idea yeah? So why isnt disadvantaging a *whole school* by taking away the internet not a bad idea?

 

Internet is *NOT* a priviledge in this day and age. If it wasnt for the internet i, and i dare say a good proportion of the users on here, wouldnt be in our current job!

 

It is especially not a priviledge when the rest of the country has access. All your doing by taking away access is is bringing the schools exam results down and making the innocent resent the school - i sure as hell would if you punished me "for nothing".

 

IMHO its a *right*, and im not 100% but id have thought the gov. would agree with me. Im quite sure theres course work which *requires* use of the internet.

 

Im sorry but imho punishing the wjhole school for one childs wrong doing is extremely childish and just plain wrong, what sort of example are you setting to the kids? "Do wrong and we'll punish you, do right and we'll punish you anyway"

[Andrew_C]

Going OT here, but it seems to me that the 'net has done wonders for the standards of literacy and written English.

 

As to the OP? The offended teacher should contact the abuse address on the site/s in question. MySpace are fairly prompt in dealing with kids claiming to be 18 when all their photos show 14 year olds, so I doubt they'd be slow to react to libel issues.

[GrumbleDook]

Ok ... let us set a few things straight on what students are and aren't entitled to as part of the DfES requirements.

 

Yes, by 2008 they are entitled to an online learning space.

 

This is not free and open access to the whole of the internet (online learning spaces still have to go through filtering that contains IWF lists to be Becta accredited). It is not free and open access to email, but can be limited to a closed system to allow communication with relevant people. It is not a chunk of online storage that they can do whatever they want with, but a learning space which allows for them to retain items of school work, take part in school communications and start / continue / complete items of school work.

 

School filtering should have the ability to have whitelist only. The online learning space *must* be included in this whitelist irregardless of restrictions of any other access.

 

There are set contacts at Bebo, Myspace and Yahoo for dealing with online bullying by students to other students or students to staff. CEOPs hold these details, as do most LAs. There was a recent child safety conference in London where majority of the social networking sites attended and spoke ... they are aware of the problem and would rather schools contact them and the police instead of taking heavy handed (and possibly illegal) actions in attempts to punish the students.

 

Schools should be aware when writing their discipline policies and procedures that the laws of the land (in England and UK) are not yet fully adapted to take into account actions like this. Typical procedures for dealing with how this sort of abuse used to occur is different to how it needs dealing with now.

 

The example I was given was that of the annoyed and disgruntled student defaces a wall on the way to the school with the slogan "Mr x sleeps with little girls". He then brags about doing this to mates and he gets collared for it.

 

The student is then charged with criminal damage for the graffiti.

 

This is not exactly the right way of dealing with it but it gets a result ... but it means that schools and individuals have been using the wrong proccess for dealing with the abusive students and what they do outside school. It has now led to a situation that is not covered by 'other laws' and so there is confusion about how it is dealt with.

 

If people do want the contact for Bebo please PM me as I am not sure if the address I have is in the public domain, but it is the one given out on the NAACE list a few weeks ago.