Progresso or SIMS?

[anthonythornton]

Hi,

 

Our secondary school is in the process of changing its MIS from CMIS (soon to be obsolete) to either SIMS or Progresso. My question is does anyone have experience from these software packages, in particular the assessment side of the software.

 

We have had a very good demonstration from SIMS however its hard to judge the true amazing capabilities of the system when they are ultimately trying to sell you the software, and working from a very well structured script. After some ground work it seems to me that personalized reports are hard to create in SIMS and that various other schools are using alternative add on software packages to do this is this correct??

 

The other main issue is to this date Progresso is a reasonably new software package with the possibility of bugs, has anyone found issues with this or does it seem to be a well built package?

 

Ultimately, I am just looking for some general non biased information on both software packages with both the positive and negative features they have / haven't got to offer.

 

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer,

 

Anthony.

[bgarston]

Hi,

 

Our secondary school is in the process of changing its MIS from CMIS (soon to be obsolete) to either SIMS or Progresso. My question is does anyone have experience from these software packages, in particular the assessment side of the software.

 

We have had a very good demonstration from SIMS however its hard to judge the true amazing capabilities of the system when they are ultimately trying to sell you the software, and working from a very well structured script. After some ground work it seems to me that personalized reports are hard to create in SIMS and that various other schools are using alternative add on software packages to do this is this correct??

 

The other main issue is to this date Progresso is a reasonably new software package with the possibility of bugs, has anyone found issues with this or does it seem to be a well built package?

 

Ultimately, I am just looking for some general non biased information on both software packages with both the positive and negative features they have / haven't got to offer.

 

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer,

 

Anthony.

 

It's early days yet; we are just starting the move to Progresso from Facility. Prior to changing jobs/schools last October I had only had experience of Sims. Reporting and Assessment appear to be really good in Progresso and much easier than either Sims or Facility. I suggest you go on some visits to see other schools that are using the respective systems. A list of early adopters for Progresso can be obtained from Serco Learning.

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful; like I said it's still early days.

 

Ben

[sonofsanta]

Without any first hand experience of Progresso (I've only seen their sales pitch, as it were) I would suggest that Progresso is actually a new system, recently designed from the ground up, whereas my impression of SIMS is that it is similarly monolithic and outdated in the same way CMIS currently is. If you're looking to make a decision now for an MIS to use for a few years, SIMS is perhaps more likely to have legacy issues & interfaces and need a complete upgrade sooner than Progresso will.

 

Progresso does look good as well, and I'm minded to go for the cloud version when we go as it will take all the hassle and stress of administering it out of my hands. This is one time I am fine with that.

[matt40k]

SIMS is used by alot of schools in the UK, and for good reason, it's going to have legacy "issues", by the very size of it's customer base and the nature of the setup. Take Nova-T4, they are still hardcore users refusing to let it go, with "cloud" solutions, if you stop supporting it, it goes instantly away and you could even deny it ever existed, could you image Capita trying to do that with Nova-T4? It's physically impossible.

 

Personally, what ever MIS you select, it's wrong, or right (pending on if your a cup full or a cup empty kinda person), you just have to accept the decision and stick to it. It's like cabling, you put the network socket in the best place in the classroom at the time and you have to stick with it, otherwise you end up wasting public funds to moving sockets because the teacher moved the classroom round a bit only to find out a few years later that they move it all back around again. Basically, look at the market, see what others use, see what people like the best, what they know the best, then work out what is actually the best choice for you, see what your LA recommend - because they'll most likely give you best support, and support is key. Whatever you decide, stick to it.

 

either SIMS or Progresso.

 

Is that the only two choices?

[Sivadam]

I cannot comment on Progresso but I can about SIMS!

 

We have been a SIMS School for very many years and are regarded as one of the more advanced users. We are a SIMS Partnership School (Just 50 out of 22,000 are ever awarded this status) and a SIMS UAT (User Acceptance Testing) Associate School.

 

I can thoroughly recommend SIMS. Unlike some other systems, no knowledge of SQL programming is required. It is extremely flexible and you can set up your Assessment System in exactly the way you wish to do so, from base principles. The SIMS AM7 (Assessment Manager) Individual reports are excellent, as are the SIMS Profile Reports. We use the former for our 4x yearly data reports to parents and the latter for our longer 'once a year' reports. The latter works via Comment Banks but Assessment results etc can be embedded into the reports. The fact that you can publish these reports to SLG (SIMS Learning Gateway) is a massive bonus as Parents, Pupils and Staff alike can then access their reports online.

 

Before you make your final decision I would suggest that you visit schools that use both systems successfully, so that you can judge for yourself which would suit you best. As a SIMS Partnership School, our door is always open to visitors. Unfortunately, it is our last day today before the Summer break. I will be working during the holiday but you would really need to chat to our Assessment Data Manager to get the best of a visit - though I could show you everything that we do in terms of Assessment Reporting.

 

If you know of a local school with access to SIMS and to SupportNet then thread 'Individual Student's Attendance Summary by Subject reports (36360)' in the Forums will demonstrate some of the advanced procedures that can be embedded into Reports directly from SIMS Assessment Manager and from other areas of SIMS.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Sivadam

[Achandler]

The choice is entirely up to you. SIMS is better at some things, Progresso others etc etc..

 

They are also all bad at things, it will be entirely personal preference. Costs are also another issue, SIMS is expensive, especially with SLG and this is where the competition should always win. But then in theory you are paying more for a better more reliable product, whether this is true is practice I doubt anyone knows or there is any way to really compare downtime between systems for example.

[GREED]

The fact that you can publish these reports to SLG (SIMS Learning Gateway) is a massive bonus as Parents, Pupils and Staff [/Quote]

 

...and hit to the school bank balance

[GREED]

Is that the only two choices?

 

Not at all, and that is the problem for many individual schools is that there are other excellent products out there, not just Aspen MIS (I know you were all waiting for that one ) but at least 3 other very capable systems that all have their advantages and disadvantages. Before you make such a huge change and investment you should ensure you have all the facts at your disposal. Talk to your LA and see who they are using, as @matt40k says, and support. But ultimately you will know from your gut instinct which is best, whether that be to 'upgrade' to Progresso or move across to one of the other players.

[CyberNerd]

...and hit to the school bank balance

 

The ongoing costs to SIMS are the real killer, notwithstanding the cost of extra module I seem to be constantly throwing out half decent hardware to meet the latest system specs.

[mariefolan]

We have chosen to back Bromcom as our MIS provider in two schools, and have found it superior to SIMS; firstly the cost is much more appropriate and therefore the system is much better value for the money. Both the behaviour system and the technical team have proven exceptional, and the "my child at school" feature has been extremely valuable. We have been thoroughly impressed by the Bromcom system and would strongly recommend it!

[Sivadam]

Superior eh?

 

One wonders what you base that on .................

[X-13]

Superior eh?

 

One wonders what you base that on .................

 

 

1 post praising a specific product, insisting it's better than everything else.

 

Seems legit.

[Sivadam]

I don't mind people praising a product. I do it all the time!

But I am not so sure that the 'superior' quote is actually factual! Now that is very diplomatic for me .................

[X-13]

I don't mind people praising a product. I do it all the time!

But I am not so sure that the 'superior' quote is actually factual! Now that is very diplomatic for me .................

 

I was implying it's a trap.

 

To get people to buy shoddy products.

[Achandler]

To be honest, all posts are opinions.

 

So basically you are saying mariefolan is a fake account doing false advertising and conning people. Interesting...

[X-13]

So basically you are saying mariefolan is a fake account doing false advertising and conning people. Interesting...

 

Yes, yes I am.

 

I very rarely trust new users, when their first post is singing the praises of a piece of software/hardware/a company.

 

Doubly so, when it's along the lines of "these guys are teh best evar!"

 

 

I could be wrong, and hope I am. But, I've seen it way too much.

[Sivadam]

It did used to happen and some of the posts were most appropriate! That is why I started to challenge such posts. It made me unpopular with the Mods etc. but it seemed to work because the inappropriate posts did appear to dry up!

 

Please note that I am not saying that the post by this OP is inappropriate................... but who knows ...............?

 

We ain't far from Derbyshire and we are always willing to accept visitors to show what SIMS can do ...................

[GREED]

Is it my bad memory or did we used to have a policy of having to post in 'Introduce yourself' before being able to post elsewhere? MIS in particular (as we all know how passionate we get!) I wonder if that is a policy to resurrect?

[LSt]

Has anyone migrated completely to Progresso? If so, how easy do you find the reporting - is it much easier than CMIS?

[john]

Has anyone migrated completely to Progresso? If so, how easy do you find the reporting - is it much easier than CMIS?

 

There is a very small number of schools that have done so, I know one is lurking on here, its reporting is SQL Server Reporting Services so you go from one extreme to the other, although I've never hated CMIS reporting that much its just qwerky and has werid bits that you get used to. SSRS is a new ball game, although you can integrate directly through an MS Word Add-on that talks to Progresso as well

[CAM]

Got five years of SIMS use behind me so here are my pros and cons.

 

PROS

+ Used in so many schools that if you get stuck, there is always a brain to pick somewhere nearby.

+ Doesn't need any experience with SQL.

+ Plenty of online documentation and training (though training is expensive, see if your LA can give you some).

+ Can provide markbooks for staff within Assessment Manager.

+ Can use Asessment Manager to enter written reports too or alternatively use Profiles.

+ Can pull data from Assessment Manager and written comments from Profiles into one custom report in Individual Reports.

+ Support for Census Returns.

+ Can do timetabling with NT6.

+ Can do some incredible things with the right expertise to make all modules talk and work together.

 

CONS

- Windows and .NET required. SIMS is not suitable if you utilise other OS platforms unless you know how to get round it.

- User interface has moments where everything is done the long way or it is so absurdly designed that you give up and do things the long way.

- Individual Reports, contrary to the name, aren't very Individual if you want to keep everything in the system. They can only be customised individually if they are exported and saved externally.

- SIMS is very expensive. SLG is even more expensive and whilst I miss it, it is of questionable value for money as a parental engagement platform in my opinion.

- SQL access is banned so you can't write your own programs and access your own data using SQL without figuring out Command Reporter (and that is Read-Only). Everything is locked away behind the GUI and this can be restrictive, especially if Capita think you should do something how they think it should be done.

- The reporting process can be confusing, Profiles I found especially hard to understand and drawing information from multiple areas of SIMS to put into an Individual Report can be time consuming to figure out and set up.

- Capita have never heard of proper error trapping and I have seen some of the most ridiculous errors and reasons for a CTD ever (User Pressed Cancel....pardon?).

 

Progresso I had a chance to look at when I went to BECTA. Unfortunately the rep didn't seem to good at explaining it, the system ran very slowly and I soon lost interest. This could be an issue with their demo server though (and to be fair, I walked up to the SIMS stand after and crashed their demo!). I think progresso contains a parental engagement tool as standard?

 

Personally I'd ask your LA what system they can provide support for. I'd be lost without having them to turn to when everything goes wrong, I have no idea what a button does or I pressed a button without knowing what it does....

[s1monb]

I can't comment too much about SIMS having used it a long time ago, but Progresso has some excellent capabilities and the fact that it is web-based is such a massive bonus.

 

In my opinion Progresso marries the ease of use of SIMS with the hard-core reporting possibilities of CMIS.

 

S

[john]

Progresso I had a chance to look at when I went to BECTA. Unfortunately the rep didn't seem to good at explaining it, the system ran very slowly and I soon lost interest. This could be an issue with their demo server though (and to be fair, I walked up to the SIMS stand after and crashed their demo!). I think progresso contains a parental engagement tool as standard?

 

Progresso has Parental Access out of the box, as does Facility ePortal and has done for a number of years at no extra cost to the user just ensure its published to the web and issue a logon to the parent job done they can see most things and its fully customisable in-house so you only want parents to see attendance not a problem just hide the rest of the info from the parent which is great

 

Progresso has been coming on leaps and bounds over the last 8 months, I would hope that you could have a much better demo and chat to people at BETT 2013 at ExCeL as more will have been using it so its had much more time to get even wider feedback from users and have even more niggles squished out of it as you need to remember that is is a completely new program from the ground up so just like any new system there are a few niggles to iron out.

[alttab]

Got five years of SIMS use behind me so here are my pros and cons.

Personally I'd ask your LA what system they can provide support for. I'd be lost without having them to turn to when everything goes wrong, I have no idea what a button does or I pressed a button without knowing what it does....

 

surely, most LA's should be able to support both ? Anyway, if not, if we're in the era of academy status being the norm, i can't see a reason why a school shouldn't be able to shop around for MIS support. I have to say that from what i've seen of the SIMs interface, i like the fact that it isn't a totally foreboding, dreary and cluttered frontend GUI. There's also something to be said for any database app hosted locally on a tried and trusted platform {school hosted SQL server instance and .net}, with tools provided to aid in the updating and applying patches to make it less of an administrative burden. Going down the cloud route for MIS may be cheaper, but it's a question of whether you lose the flexibility and whether if an existing non-cloud based MIS is doing the business, why folk would want to dip their toe into the unknown. i can see the benefits of the cloud for new sites or those looking to transition from facility to progresso, just not sure about schools moving from SIMs if their happy to a completely different cloud only offering. you'd have to factor in a lot more than merely the cost of the licensing.

[michael2k6]

I'm not sure how apropriate it is for me to post here in this thread, but just to add to what alttab said (i dont want to get into a hosted / local debate here...) but in terms of cloud, quite a few people are finding it's more flexible that way, because it means other hosted solutions are able to integrate without needing the net at the school and all the port forwarding setup, etc. In terms of a tried and trusted system, if it were running in the school in SQL and .NET then it would be running on hosted solution in SQL and .NET too. The difference being that in a hosted solution you're going to be looking at much bigger clusters in terms of resource and failover, so if anything it's to be trusted more. Don't get me wrong I can see there are advantages and disadvantages to having a MIS in the cloud, i just don't agree that those are relevant.

It's the same story as many other apps and services - the more things that end up in the 'cloud' the more sense it will make to host others there... it's like a snowball! I think it's a white one though, not a yellow one

 

It's always going to be down to the individual sites, and the users there, and what suits one may not suit another.

Is just my ten penneth

 

Mic @ Serco

 

 

My posts are my own and are in no way representative of my employers (or associated bodies) opinion or sentiment. This post is made on my own time, reference to my employer is only to give a fair perspective to anyone reading my post, as other posts have mentioned people lurking secretively - I would hope those using the MIS section would know me by now, but just in case... I do work for Serco.