[ipad] Why iPads are not for the Enterprise

[Dos_Box]

The Register has this article up commenting about how Microsoft has an excellent chance of storming the enterprise barricades with Windows 8 in tablet form: Seize your moment, Microsoft: iPad is RUBBISH for enterprise ? The Register

[sonofsanta]

Oh gods yes, a manageable tablet is finally going to be the bridge between executives and IT departments and they will flood out across enterprise. Win8 RT will fail in the consumer space but full-fat x86 tablets will be massive - HP, after all, are only making x86 tablets. Eventually someone will work this out and start making cheaper x86 tablets, with Atoms rather than i5s, and on that day, we can properly start using them in schools.

[sparkeh]

Now, if someone could go and staple this article to the foreheads of SMTs up and down the country, it would be much appreciated.

[GrumbleDook]

The things is ... we have had manageable tablets before. It was Windows XP tablet edition and there were some really good projects, using kit from Toshiba amongst others, and one of the down sides was the limitations of the touch interface and OS, but the concepts are still pretty much the same.

 

This really is nothing new!

 

Perhaps folk should go back to those XP tablets and work out why they didn't get the take up that they could have and make sure the same mistakes are not made.

 

Just saying.

[Dos_Box]

My experience of a variety of XP tablets was that they were clunky, had cheap low spec CPU's, relatively low-res screens and the wireless integration of XP to networks was..well..let's just say 'not the best' due to the use of cheap onboard wireless chipsets and the lack of dedicated managed wireless to handle the traffic. Oh, did I mention that they were not exactly cheap either (strange because the internal components certainly were)?

Yeah, it's not a new idea, but doing it right in the enterprise, is.

I almost forgot to mention that more than a few required use of a stylus as well. And lets not talk about the on-screen keyboard.

Hang on, I'll take off my rose tinted specs now and recall the cupboard full of them that I 'managed' because users disliked them so much. I'm rather looking forwards to Windows 8 on a tablet tablet after remembering all of that now

[Fazza]

This really is nothing new!

 

Perhaps folk should go back to those XP tablets and work out why they didn't get the take up that they could have and make sure the same mistakes are not made.

 

Just saying.

 

Compaq and Toshiba made the first proper tablets and we purchased one of each, gave them to the IT Department and the ILT Co-ordinator to try out and keep if they found a use for them.

 

Needless to say, after a month or so they came back to us as although they had fun playing games on them, they couldnt come up with any reason to use them in the College environment. They then sat on the shelf in our store room gathering dust.

[sonofsanta]

The problem with the XP tablets was that XP was a keyboard'n'mouse OS attached to a touchscreen. Grumble about them if you will (and I do), but it took Apple to approach it from the other direction - sizing up a phone, not sizing down a PC. The invention of multi-touch capacitive screens was essential as well; how anyone ever managed on XP (with tiny UI targets) with a resistive (inaccurate) touchscreen I don't know. Probably because no-one did.

 

Win8 is very clearly designed for touch first and foremost so should be much more useable than XP ever was. Plus Apple make a tablet so therefore they must be desirable, whereas before they were gimmicks for geeks.

[GrumbleDook]

Would anyone care to re-read the research or reports about Tablet PCs and make a comment on why they think Windows 8 would be any different than iPads?

[Dos_Box]

Would anyone care to re-read the research or reports about Tablet PCs and make a comment on why they think Windows 8 would be any different than iPads?

 

2 words. Active Directory.

[sparkeh]

The things is ... we have had manageable tablets before. It was Windows XP tablet edition and there were some really good projects, using kit from Toshiba amongst others, and one of the down sides was the limitations of the touch interface and OS, but the concepts are still pretty much the same.

 

This really is nothing new!

 

Perhaps folk should go back to those XP tablets and work out why they didn't get the take up that they could have and make sure the same mistakes are not made.

 

Just saying.

They didn't succeed because they weren't suitable for the environment in terms of spec or usability. Sticking a touch screen on a desktop OS with low power expensive hardware does not a good tablet make.

Granted, it has taken Apple to lead the way in driving the consumer tablet market forward, but iPads are not good enterprise devices and shouldn't be shoe horned into schools because Apple has done a good marketing job.

[sparkeh]

2 words. Active Directory.

Bingo!

Also as the article suggests, decent productivity software.

[sonofsanta]

2 words. Active Directory.

 

This. Security configuration, application management more graceful than eight-dozen iTunes accounts, OS management and updates... they allow for a level of management and control, which has benefits beyond making IT happy - users won't have to worry about OS updates, for example, which is enough to panic some people still.

 

Even Win8 RT isn't good enough in this regard.

[GrumbleDook]

Ok .. I'll rephrase / repeat the question and expand

 

From previous research looking at Tablet devices in schools which aspects of *using* the device would be different when considering Windows8 over iPads? What limitations would there be from the choice of device based around the ideas of staff use, class use, 1:1 schemes? How is school infrastructure presently different to when use of previous Tablet PCs were introduced and can we learn anything from this?

[GrumbleDook]

2 words. Active Directory.

 

And how does that make a difference?

[SYNACK]

Oh gods yes, a manageable tablet is finally going to be the bridge between executives and IT departments and they will flood out across enterprise. Win8 RT will fail in the consumer space but full-fat x86 tablets will be massive - HP, after all, are only making x86 tablets. Eventually someone will work this out and start making cheaper x86 tablets, with Atoms rather than i5s, and on that day, we can properly start using them in schools.

I agree they already make these, like the hp slate 2, the dell Latiutde ST and the acer iconia w501. They are just waiting for Windows 8 as they are clumsy under 7. These don't have the largest cpus and so only have 5 hours of battery but they exist and work well. W8 dropped the CPU temp by 4 degrees celcious at idle. The newer ones will be better but its worth trying 8 on one of these to see what it was designed for. AD does one very special thing, make it manageable without half a dozen solutions and addons plus a bunch of hacks and endless wasted time along with new hardware and six monthly OS upgrades to keep on top of Apples gimmics.

Edited July 13, 2012 by SYNACK

[Gatt]

misread the title thinking this was related to the U.S.S. Enterprise

[Dos_Box]

And how does that make a difference?

 

In terms of usability or manageability or integration?

[PiqueABoo]

And how does that make a difference?

 

**Multi-user**

[sparkeh]

And how does that make a difference?

Already been addressed somewhat.

Security configuration, application management more graceful than eight-dozen iTunes accounts, OS management and updates... they allow for a level of management and control, which has benefits beyond making IT happy - users won't have to worry about OS updates, for example, which is enough to panic some people still.

I can see that you are coming at this from an angle of purely thinking about what users are doing with the device in their hand and it working perfectly.

However management of these devices has a big impact on the end user experience and can't be ignored or palmed off. Whilst AD integration/integration into your existing infrastructure isn't the most exciting of topics when comparing which tablets to go for, it does have benefits.

Edited July 13, 2012 by sparkeh

[Michael]

iPads are designed for personal use. Windows (even home editions) are designed for multi-user. I think this is why Apple hasn't taken off in the Enterprise. Apple's market share is growing, but Microsoft easily have 80%+ of all educational and business setups.

 

Active Directory has been around for over 10 years and it has grown to be more manageable and flexible. Ideal for managing users, computers and of course policies.

 

There's nothing else out there (all ready to go) that allows you to specify a single GPO and this could apply to a workstation, notebook, netbook and in future tablets. This is a true multi-platform, all centrally managed from one Active Directory.

[localzuk]

Ok .. I'll rephrase / repeat the question and expand

 

From previous research looking at Tablet devices in schools which aspects of *using* the device would be different when considering Windows8 over iPads? What limitations would there be from the choice of device based around the ideas of staff use, class use, 1:1 schemes? How is school infrastructure presently different to when use of previous Tablet PCs were introduced and can we learn anything from this?

 

And in that sentence you've bypassed the issue. The issue isn't *just* about using tablets. Its about managing them in a classroom environment, in a school etc... Manageability is just as important as being able to poke things on them easily.

 

You can't compare current tablets to old ones as they lacked usability so they simply didn't get used (example given earlier). I've only every met one person who successfully used a Windows XP tablet PC.

 

As it stands, iPads in a shared environment are difficult to deal with. How do kids store work easily? How do they retrieve work easily? Put simply - they can't. It involves much messing about with logging in and out on a tablet interface not designed for it. Whereas if the interface was designed from the ground up to handle multiple users, and had central management so that as soon as a user logs in they can get to their stuff at a touch of an icon (or print etc...) then that is something that will work better in shared environments.

 

1:1 is a different issue altogether. If the device is entirely 1 person's device, then manageability is much less important from a 'user logging in' POV. The current tools like Profile Manager and Meraki handle it sort of ok.

[GrumbleDook]

In terms of usability or manageability or integration?

 

Yes

 

**Multi-user**

 

Will all devices always be multi-user? What has previous research shown about using windows based tablets in education?

 

Already been addressed somewhat.

 

I can see that you are coming at this from an angle of purely thinking about what users are doing with the device in their hand and it working perfectly.

However management of these devices has a big impact on the end user experience and can't be ignored or palmed off. Whilst AD integration/integration into your existing infrastructure isn't the most exciting of topics when comparing which tablets to go for, it does have benefits.

 

And so we are discussing the differences on how devices are managed? Does anyone have a key list of the differences? Is it impossible to manage iOS (or Android) devices compared to windows devices?

 

iPads are designed for personal use. Windows (even home editions) are designed for multi-user. I think this is why Apple hasn't taken off in the Enterprise. Apple's market share is growing, but Microsoft easily have 80%+ of all educational and business setups.

 

Active Directory has been around for over 10 years and it has grown to be more manageable and flexible. Ideal for managing users, computers and of course policies.

 

There's nothing else out there (all ready to go) that allows you to specify a single GPO and this could apply to a workstation, notebook, netbook and in future tablets. This is a true multi-platform, all centrally managed from one Active Directory.

 

Yes, AD has been around for many years and was preciously used with earlier Tablet devices ... how is that different to how it would be implemented now?

[localzuk]

Will all devices always be multi-user? What has previous research shown about using windows based tablets in education?

 

Until education can suddenly afford hundreds of thousands of pounds to provide 1:1 computing, yes.

 

And so we are discussing the differences on how devices are managed? Does anyone have a key list of the differences? Is it impossible to manage iOS (or Android) devices compared to windows devices?

 

Yes. There is no way that I know of in Android or iOS to have a user log in, then have mapped drives, and a pre-determined environment set by the profile/group policies etc...

 

Yes, AD has been around for many years and was preciously used with earlier Tablet devices ... how is that different to how it would be implemented now?

 

As I said, the interface on earlier tablets was difficult to use. The manageability was great.

[SYNACK]

GD Have you used W8, the ui is completely different and designed for touch. The hardware is also more suited, low power usage and heat for longer battery life, lighter weight etc. along with ssds for data access speed and robustness. It is a completely different proposition than XP or 7.

[GrumbleDook]

And in that sentence you've bypassed the issue. The issue isn't *just* about using tablets. Its about managing them in a classroom environment, in a school etc... Manageability is just as important as being able to poke things on them easily.

 

Please see the section of the question about the school infrastructure ... this bit was specifically aimed at asking what gives you manageability, not just from a device / deployment point of view but connectivity, safeguarding, security, etc.

 

You can't compare current tablets to old ones as they lacked usability so they simply didn't get used (example given earlier). I've only every met one person who successfully used a Windows XP tablet PC.

 

Without wanting to sound like a broken record ... this is why I keep asking about reading the previous research. We *all* have anecdotes about how device / technology X seemed a good idea but was never really used by the 1/5/10 people we know had access to it.

 

As it stands, iPads in a shared environment are difficult to deal with. How do kids store work easily? How do they retrieve work easily? Put simply - they can't. It involves much messing about with logging in and out on a tablet interface not designed for it. Whereas if the interface was designed from the ground up to handle multiple users, and had central management so that as soon as a user logs in they can get to their stuff at a touch of an icon (or print etc...) then that is something that will work better in shared environments.

 

1:1 is a different issue altogether. If the device is entirely 1 person's device, then manageability is much less important from a 'user logging in' POV. The current tools like Profile Manager and Meraki handle it sort of ok.

 

Ok ... so now we are talking about how the type of scheme / system you are running makes a difference to how well it fits into the required use by the school. Have previous schemes / researched given us any information we can take to SLT to show the lessons which need to be learnt?

 

How did SLT authorising schemes in places like Essa Academy make their decision about iPads? What is the latest from the eLearning Foundation about it in comparison to previous schemes they have helped schools run?

Edited July 13, 2012 by GrumbleDook
grammar