Infrastructure shenanigans...

[leon]

There was a thread about core switches the other day which got me thinking...

 

There's agreement here that our infrastructure could do with updating. There'll likely be a new building within the next 18 months with another 250 PCs in it (Which I guess the SMT are expecting me to look after on my jack jones. Hmm...), so I'd like to get our existing kit sorted out in advance.

 

We have an existing fiber connecting the front of school to the server room at the rear. It's 62.5/125 so I'm guessing it'll be fine for the new switches (there are currently 2 ancient 100 base media converters either end of it). The fiber currently terminates at both ends into ST type patch panel. The HP GBICS are LC type connectors, so I just intend to buy the appropriate patch leads -or would it be better to reterminate the fiber with LC plugs; straight into the GBICs? The switches will just be reconnected with the existing cat5e for now until I can get a cable team in to do the new building.

 

So I was wondering if any of you network bods might cast an eye over my shopping list:

 

1 x CORE SWITCH 5406zl-48g

 

2 x HP PROCURVE GIGABIT-SX-LC MINI-GBIC -to be used at the core and a gigabit switch (below) at the other end of the fiber.

 

13 x HP PROCURVE SWITCH 1800-24G -these will replace all of our current 100 base switches (and hubs!). Theres a cash back deal on these atm:

 

http://www.misco.co.uk/content/promos/hp/switchoffer.asp?sourceid=2266

 

Once the new building is finished, I intend to get another 5406zl and connect it to the existing core with 10GB fiber.

 

Thanks for reading!

[Geoff]

HP PROCURVE SWITCH 1800-24G

 

Any paticular reason you've gone for these rather than the 2600 series?

[localzuk]

My guess would be because they are gigabit switches and are stackable.

 

WRT the fibre, ST termination is fine - it is what we have here, including new installs. Just get the correct patch leads.

[leon]

@ Geoff: Heh, the shiny offer? :-P

 

Seriously, just cause they're gigabit. All new machines will have gb nics in them, so it's just future proofing. The 2600 series is just 10/100 right? -I'm having trouble finding proper prices for them to compare. If they're significantly cheaper, I'll use some to cut costs...

 

Good news on the termination, I was just looking at a diy guide and I didn't like the look ;-)

[localzuk]

A 2626 would set you back about £230, and a 2650 about £430.

 

The difference as I see it is that the 1800's aren't fully managed.

 

My question would be - why would you need gigabit to the desktop?

[leon]

I agree with you about Gb to the desktop, it's not necessary. Plans were afoot to to .avi departmental teaching material and have somekind of content/media server, so the bandwidth there would be nice, but it fell victim to me not having time.

 

Switch management is something new to me. Localzuk -do you run 2626s? Whats the advantage of a fully managed switch?

 

Cheers.

[leon]

Comparisons here:

 

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ie/en/sm/WF06b/23591-23599-23599-23599-12627676-12627728-77672903.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_IEEN

 

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ie/en/sm/WF06b/23591-23599-23599-23599-23631-348703-31539195.html?jumpid=oc_R1002_IEENC-001_ProCurve%202626%20Switch&lang=en&cc=ie

 

Looks like the 2626 is a better bet, it supports a few more useful protocols. I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason I can't secure shell to my Censornet box through our current gear...

[Geoff]

Another issue is that you get higher port densities with the 2650 than is possible with the 1800-24G. This can be quite important in the long run if rack space is limited.

[localzuk]

I use 2650's everywhere except the core - and that is a 5600zl. With the huge number of extra uses of school networks nowadays, I just feel more comfortable going with more functional switches than with faster ones - seems more 'futureproofed'. At the moment all the functions we use could be achieved on the 1800's but we'd need double the number of them around the school.

 

If you are wanting multimedia capabilities, I would say roll out 2600 series ones generally but go for a 2900 series in the room where you need the speed - it is an extra expense but IMO worth it for the extra capabilities.

 

If you think about it, a few years ago schools wouldn't have even considered any form of managed switch. We generally make use of some managed functions now, so in a few more years it makes sense to me that we will be using even more.

[leon]

Thanks for the advice gents. Looks like I've got some planning to do. :-)

[andyrite]

The 2900's will take the 10gb modules. If you have the cash go for these otherwise the 2600 are very good.

[Geoff]

And of course, if you go for 2900's anywhere it means you need to have a 10Gbit core (otherwise you wont see the benifit IMHO). Realistically that means one or more 5400zl's.

[budgester]

HP do a design service, check the website out.

 

They then refer you to a local partner.

 

Thats what we did and it saved a lot of grief.

[leon]

I hear that! I'm liking the idea of getting HP to do the leg work -have just mailed them my plans.

 

Got to admit, I'm still torn with the 1800s for places of high usage (considering budget). Will there be a tangible benefit in keeping the backbone gigabit to an IT suite if the nics are 10/100?

 

Thanks.

[budgester]

My thinking is get a much bandwidth as close to the user as possible.

 

Other wise you have 30 PC's in a classroom each with 100meg connection to this switch which then, so at full capacity you could be looking a 3gig, bloody unlikely but possible.

 

Work out where your bottlenecks are.

 

What cards do you have in the servers ? If thet are only 100 then this will likely get swamped. So upgrade to gig cards, and aggregate them if you have mulitple cards.

 

For instance we have 4 ICT suites going back to one cabinet, this cabinet is linked back to our core with 8 fibre cores, (so 4 links) we trunk 3 of these links together and have the other one as stp failover. This gives us a 3gig backbone back to the core.

 

At the core we have 2 * 5400zl so the 3gig goes into 1, then the 1gig goes into the other, so we always have a route.

 

Let me know if you want a copy of our network design, as the .vsd extension is not allowed on edugeek.

[leon]

Sounds slick ;-)

 

A copy of the design would be much appreciated -do you use fiber gbics in 2600 switches, in your suites?

[leon]

I'm still on with this...

 

Can anyone recommend me a UK procurve supplier?

 

Many thanks.

[Norphy]

Try European Electronique

[Butuz]

I always buy my Procurves through PCWB.com.

 

Andrew

[markcuk]

i second European Electronique

 

we started using them last month great service and very good prices

 

mark

[simonat]

I agree - I have been using European Electronique for our network hardware, desktops and devices for the past three years - excellent communication, support, prices etc.

 

I can give you our account managers details if you like - he will always go the extra mile helping specifying equipments and quotes etc. Also a great help with new builds and large projects.

[Ric_]

@leon: Any HP reseller should be able to get you education pricing on the switches you require. Most will then sort you out a bit of discount if you sweet talk them. Using supporters of EduGeek (such as Oliis Solution - ask for Mandy) is always good. The more people using our sponsors and supporters the better because we will be able to keep the site going.

[leon]

Much obliged, that's great. This summer is sure going to be busy...

[leon]

Hokay, the order's in to Oliis. Took your recommendation Ric, if only to support this site. Their prices are a good as anywhere :-).

 

@ Ric_: I also require a bunch of 6u data cabinets, to accomodate the Procurves (which have a rep for being deep). In another thread you mention getting some from Oliis which did the job. You wouldn't happen to have a brand/serial number?

 

Thanks.

[Geoff]

I also require a bunch of 6u data cabinets, to accomodate the Procurves

 

I happen to have the 2600 series manual here with me. I can tell you the depth of all of the models in the series if you need to know it.